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KickStarter Kingdom Come: Deliverance Pre-Release Thread [RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Ezeekiel

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No. HEMA can look good, this looks clunky.
The strikes/cuts/thrusts all look way too slow. Edit: Well, not all. Things seem to vary quite a bit from vid to vid, and there's weird stuff going on with the distance between characters sometimes changing suddenly?
We used to play quake 3 with 180 or whatever fov and really fast fighting games and whatnot, players can handle faster combat ffs.

I have some ideas about how one could do fencing and whatnot in first person better than the current iterations, but I'm too lazy to write all that down right now gah...
 
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Ezeekiel

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You could've used the same criticism against Operation Flashpoint, back in the day. Compared to the smooth and exciting run-n-gun action of contemporary shooters, its combat system felt clunky and dull. Unless you actually played it. Then you realized it was a thousand times more interesting than the other arcadey bs.

It's the difference between the dance-like gamey melee combat, which looks elegant to someone clueless about how things actually work, and a HEMA youtube video. There is already more than enough of the former, so let us have the latter.
No, totally off base. No one's talking about dancey crap.
 

Smejki

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The combat looks fine to me. It kind of conveys that the weapons are heavy, and it takes time to swing a few kilos of steel. Of course, it would be great if both the PC and NPC models reacted more to being hit, but I realize that it's quite difficult to implement this sort of physical reactions.
 

Infinitron

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http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/119156-kingdom-come-deliverance-e3-2017-coverage.html

Moving on to the previews, PCWorld's article talks about the game's historical background and its questing system that emphasizes timing. Check it out:

But Warhorse did speak in broader terms about the world it’s building—one that’s a far more reactive take on the open-world RPG. For instance, an early quest tasked us with recovering a debt from a local drunkard. With the right stats we could of course talk the money out of him, or we could beat it out of him. If we fail in that regard, we could return and tell our father, at which point he’ll take care of it. Or if you keep exploring, you might find some other way around the quest, maybe some fellow youths to teach you how to break into the drunkard’s house.

Many of these quests are also time-limited, which further changes how events play out. Another early quest has you grab a beer for your father on the way home. “Get one from the cellar so it’s still cold,” he says as you dash off. Buy the beer and come back immediately and your dear ol’ dad will drink full to bursting. Get distracted, though? The beer warms up, and your dad will lament his lazy son again.

This is a minor example, but from the looks of it Kingdom Come is studded with time-sensitive events that lead to entire quests or quest paths, all sorts of people actually going about their lives and you’re just one more peasant in their midst. It’s very A Mind Forever Voyaging in that regard, or Pathologic—the latter another Elder Scrolls-alike, actually.

Tomas Franzese from DualShockers notes the overall high difficulty of the adversarial activities in the game. A few paragraphs:

Fighting in Kingdom Come: Deliverance is quite tough. The entire game plays in the first person perspective, really throwing you into the thick of combat. Henry attacks quite slowly, and enemies require multiple well placed blows to be taken down, especially when punching.When I later played a combat tutorial, I found that if you charge haphazardly into a group of enemies, you will easily be taken down, as you can not block all of there attacks, and they will be coming at you from all sides.

Luckily, it was easier to take the drunk down one-on-one, so I beat him up and got Henry’s father’s money back. Before bringing it back to him, I decided to walk around the town a bit and interact with the NPCs. They all had some simple, well written dialogue, and I even learned how to play “Farkle,” a centuries old dice game included in Kingdom Come: Deliverance, with a little help from the developers. The game’s world looks to be quite lively, so I am looking forward to seeing what some of the sidequests and minigames might be.

PlayStationLifeStyle has a short write-up that emphasizes the game's cohesion and nuanced nature. An excerpt:

Although Kingdom Come: Deliverance is a fictional game, its wider setting is true to history, with the locations and arching cast of cast characters pulled straight from the annals of medieval times. You won’t find dragons or trolls roaming the landscape, and your lethality is entirely dependent on your skills with physical weapons rather than shouts or arcane abilities. Real-life buildings are recreated in great detail to maintain authenticity. Jumping into the map screen shows a beautiful interactive piece of art based on medieval designs. Kingdom Come houses so much more weight when you realize the breadth of how much it is based on a far gone but not forgotten reality.

What struck me most were the elaborate systems at play through every quest and decision. Everything ties together. Though your speech skill might be high, the success of an attempt to influence any given individual will be impacted by the clothes you are wearing and the equipment you have. Guards might be more keen to speak with you if you are wielding a bloodied sword. Higher class citizens may be reticent to interact if your clothes look like those of a lower class citizen. It’s not as simple as being able to charm people through a leveled up speech stat.

Likewise, strength is oft determined more by your skill with weapons than it is by powering up or getting better weapons, meaning that you could easily fall to an early enemy at any point in the game if you let your guard down. Combat is highly strategic, using a star-based system of attacks and parries. Fail to properly defend and a few well placed critical blows will send you to your death.While having a nicer sword will certainly make a difference, Warhorse wants to make sure that all of their systems play hand-in-hand to give a deep and realistic experience to the player.

TechRaptor enjoys the relative lack of hand holding, using the game's map as a prime example:

Before I got my hands on the gameplay, I attended a 30 minute presentation, which expanded on a lot of what I was able to see in my demo of the game. There were some immediate themes in the presentation that made some of Warhorse’s design decisions and philosophies very clear.

The first of those was their approach to exploration. Kingdom Come: Deliverance does feature an overview map you can view (it is wonderfully hand-drawn as well), but it shows you the basics. Any nodes, points of interest, or other markers only appear once you as the player character, Henry, go to that place and interact with a character/thing. Going out into the world, which was emphasized many times, would not be a hand holding experience. That lack of hand holding is another design philosophy present throughout much of what was discussed/shown.

Exploration is important as much is learned and much gained through venturing out and talking to many people. Choices, quests, and other experiences that could have great effects on other parts of the game could be missed. For example, not keeping up with a certain NPC could mess you up later on. There are skill checks in the game for dialogue options—things like Speech, Intimidation, etc—that the player can level up, but each NPC also has their own level in these skills. The more you interact, the more you can learn about them and their skill levels, which could be vital information in a later interaction.

And finally, Fextralife offers a general preview, so if you just want a concise update on Kingdom Come's current state, you should check it out:

The hands on demo for the game presented us with 3 different game mode options, the main story, a combat tutorial and skirmish mode. No matter which you choose, the game is rendered in some of the most beautiful visuals you’ll see, with faithful recreations of historical architecture from the middle ages and specifically Bohemia.

The main story puts you through the opening questions of the game to get a sense of your stat preferences and then lets you go to explore the land. The quests are completely reactive and let you handle your business in any way you see fit. If your particular quest choices fail, you are not locked out, instead new options will present themselves for resolution, even in completely different quests. For example in the demo, you were charged with recovering money from a sheister. If you fail at this, later on your friends will ask you for help in which you can agree in exchange for their help recovering your money. This kind of flexible approach to questing allows for a tremendous amount of freedom that is such a breath of fresh air in open world gaming that always promises agency but often only delivers boxed in choice.

In the skirmish, we were able to really dig into the game’s combat system which was much more intuitive than we thought. You equip a primary and secondary weapon and once you begin engaging an enemy you can choose a direction on a 5 way compass to target specific areas of a foe’s body that may be left unprotected. There is a heft and weight to the combat that is very enjoyable and striking down a foe comes with the enthusiasm of a fight well won. This particular skirmish is itself bound by the reality of the choices you make, as getting to these situations is completely dependent on how you play out the prior quests. In some cases, it may be possible to completely avoid large scale battle with deft diplomacy.
 

AwesomeButton

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I've been reading Osprey's books on the invasion of Mexico these days, and I've been thinking how cool it would be to have a game that follows Cortez' expedition, or the attack on Granada in 1492. Possibly in a future Warhorse game...
 

Paul_cz

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https://forum.kingdomcomerpg.com/t/warhorse-studios-weekly-torch/29593/94


The production quality of your new story trailer exceeded my expectations tremendously (congrats to 2mils views in 8 days just on WH channel), but there are some people hoping for improved facial animations. Will you take some extra care to improve on those in final product?

Yes, we are all very much aware of how Mass Effect: Andromeda ended up, so our animation department will definitely try their best to make the facial anims as polished as possible. It’s a tough job, though, especially in the span of 4 hours of dynamic cutscenes.



Why do you have procedually generated mouth animations, but have to craft every blink and eye movement yourself? It should be easier to create a similar algorith which automatically lets character blink from time to time, move the eye in a natural way, and so on. Other games have done this as well. Would it not be a waste of your time to handcraft everything?

You are probably referring to the “dead faces” seen in our E3 demo. No worries there, the facial “moods” for in-game dialogues are one of the last things that are implemented. Basically, for each paragraph of our in-game dialogues, a character mood needs to be set and somebody has to set it. This, however, was not finished when we set out for E3 this year. Don’t worry, it will be ready for the final product, the characters will be blinking, have different emotions etc.
 

Smejki

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PrettyDeadman

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Oblivion with mods (particular with a fist-fighting mode), sorry guys. And it's screaming "console game" (inventory, dialogs).
Wtf? He slashes him like 5 times, he just keeps on coming with a boxer stance. I though this game was supposed to be realistic.
I am excited about this game as any other guy but this is not what I expected.
 
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AwesomeButton

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Realistic 1st person games would be really boring to play in single player. Look at Arma 2/3. I'm ok with the compromise, but less ok with the tone of the dialogue. It's more Oblivion than Witcher 3, to put it short and vague.
 

Shin

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Looks like one of those games that might be cool despite the combat... so I don't see why they put so much of it into trailers. I think showing off the more sandboxy stuff would really excite people more.
 

AwesomeButton

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Ok, I was too unspecific, I guess. I meant to say that realistic movement, head movement and hand-to-hand combat can't be done in a computer game in such a way as to be playable by a person using two hands for interacting with the controls. You have to be able to independently control... lets see:
1. Head - ok, let's assume the average player uses Track IR, which is not so of course, but let's assume.
2. Hands, separately - assuming the elbow and wrists are automatically controlled by the computer for swinging and thrusting, and the player just gives commands such as swing, thrust, swing over head, punch/jab, uppercut, hook
3. Torso - nobody's done that yet, but you need it for realistic hand to hand combat
4. Legs - you need to be able to execute movement in 8 directions with two different speeds, let's say you have a run toggle which does that.
This is not counting jumping, lunges, crouching, prone position.

An octopus couldn't handle that many buttons. My conclusion is that if you want realistic hand to hand fighting, train IRL :)

I referred to Arma as an example of how cumbersome the controls would get even if you attempt to roughly simulate body movement realistically. Although I have to admit that in Arma 3 the scroll wheel controlling stances fluently was very good.
 

cvv

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I'm less ok with the tone of the dialogue. It's more Oblivion than Witcher 3, to put it short and vague.

Literally what? The dialogues have exactly the dirty, scabrous, real-life tone of Witcher, instead of the colourless, insipid text carefully managed for the mass audience you usually see in all blockbuster AAA games, including the shit Bethesda is producing.

An epic failure of judgement lol.
 

Infinitron

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https://www.pcgamesn.com/kingdom-come-deliverance/kingdom-come-deliverance-gameplay-e3-2017-hands-on

In Kingdom Come: Deliverance I threw fists, dice, and very nearly poo

Kingdom Come: Deliverance has been a long time (kingdom) coming. By the time of its scheduled release date of February 13 next year, it will have been in development for over four years. For most of that time, its original pitch hasn’t changed: a medieval RPG with as much historical accuracy as possible. Dungeons without the dragons. Intriguing though this is, I’ve been wondering how the game will actually play for months now. At E3, I got my answer.

For a loose comparison to get us started, think Skyrim. As in that game, Kingdom Come doesn’t have classes per se, and you’ll improve a range of different skills – with associated perk trees – simply by using them, your aptitudes taking shape around how you play.

Starting the story in the tutorial area, my character Henry, a blacksmith’s son, is shaken awake by his mother. He is chided for the bandage on his wrist, and his initial skill points are fixed in the ensuing conversation: I can answer mum’s question “What on Earth did you get up to last night?” by saying I was chatting in the tavern (improving my speech skill), working in the forge (strength), dancing (agility), or “with Bianca” (vitality, and I hope you caught the wink from developers Warhorse Studios there).

The historicity of three-armed miners

Eventually, mum lets me out to explore Silver Skalice, Henry’s hometown (which really exists). The minimalist HUD features only a health/stamina bar and a compass, where quest markers appear – again, it’s very Skyrim, but a little less hand-holdy. Tobi, the splendidly-bearded PR chap, says “the compass helps you to find where to go, but you will never see an arrow on the screen [suggesting you] ‘talk to this guy’ or ‘take this item.’ If you need more help, you can open the map.”

The map and the in-game menus all adhere to a gorgeous, authentically medieval aesthetic. To get an idea of the level of historicity, Tobi explains that medieval artists would depict people in motion by drawing them with multiple limbs, so there’s a picture of a three-armed miner in the corner of the map. It’s a really nice, nerdy touch that adds to the sense of immersion, and there’s plenty more if you’re interested in history.

Kingdom Come is set in the early stages of a real civil war in Bohemia (modern-day Czech Republic), and the in-game codex has hundreds of pages of background on its characters, locations, and so on. Most of the important NPCs you’ll meet really existed, such as Lord Konrad Kyeser, a German military engineer played by the wonderful Brian Blessed. There’s even an authentic mini-game: Farkle, a dice game that’s almost a thousand years old. Videogames: making learning fun since The Oregon Trail.

Measuring badassness
Kingdom%20Come%20inn.png


An early quest sees me off to collect a debt owed to Henry’s dad by Kunesh, the town drunk. He’s uncooperative, because videogames, so up pops a skill check. We can try to get our way through either persuasion or intimidation, and our chance of success is determined by four stats. These are compared against those of whomever you’re speaking with, which are hidden from you initially, but can be discovered in various ways, such as perks in the speech skill tree, dialogue, etc.

These stats are grouped into pairs, and each pair has one stat based on a skill, the other on your attire. Persuasion stats are speech (a skill measuring your gift of the gab) and impression (whether you cut the figure of a nobleman (wear expensive clothes, basically). Intimidation stats are strength and what Tobi calls ‘badassness’ – essentially, how scary you look, a trait enhanced by wearing plate armour, ideally covered in blood from a recent battle.

Unlike in some other games, you won’t get a second chance to find the correct line in dialogue checks; if your first effort fails, you’ll have to deal with the consequences, but “there are almost always workarounds,” Tobi says. Most quests have more than one solution, and falling at the first hurdle will rarely write off the whole thing, though it could mean you miss the best outcome. Failing to collect the debt from Kunesh, for instance, means you have to go back to your father, admit your failure, and the money to buy the coal he needs has to come out of our savings.

Alternatively, another early quest sees Henry’s friends in a mischievous mood, with the idea to throw dung at someone’s house. You can trade your help with this task for theirs in beating up Kunesh. If you tell them you’re not interested, though, they will call you a loser and go do it anyway. “This game is not built around you,” Tobi says. “It does not wait for you – most things can happen without you.”

I attempt to intimidate Kunesh, but he’s not having any of it. Probably something to do with the alcohol and the fact I’m not covered in blood – I’ll know for next time. Anyway, time for a scrap.

Of Medieval tanks
Kingdom%20Come%20fighting.png


Tobi says you don’t actually have to fight (much) in Kingdom Come if you don’t want to: if you make the right choices, the game is “not entirely, but almost, finishable in a completely peaceful way.” However, I expect most of us are going to want to indulge in what Warhorse claim is some of the most authentic medieval combat in a game to date. My (unsuccessful) brawl with Kunesh and some time in skirmish mode gives me a basic handle on what this entails.

You can attack and block in six different angles: overhead, upper left and right, lower left and right, and thrusting. It combines Chivalry’s depth with the clarity of For Honor’s UI – when you’re targeting an opponent, the five points of your crosshair light up similarly to the latter game depending on where you’re attacking. You’ll also be able to chain attacks, block, and feint.

Doing any of those actions will cost some of a recharging stamina bar, and your maximum stamina is determined by your current health – taking hits will cause you to tire faster. When you’re out of stamina, you can’t attack, and are more open to critical hits. The health of your current opponent is also shown on your HUD.

Positioning and stamina management are key. “Pro tip: don’t go into the middle of the skirmish,” Tobi says, “because then everyone can attack you from the sides and you are immediately dead.” A winning strategy is to stay on the fringes, pick a target, attack, and then retreat to let your stamina recover.

Kingdom%20Come%20raiders.png


Contrary to what some films and games might lead you to believe, it’s quite hard to push a sword through plate armour, and knights who wore such armour in battle were close to invulnerable. The only effective tactics were sticking spikes into the joins between limbs, or hitting the armour very hard with very heavy weapons that could deform it and traumatise the body within. Kingdom Come’s combat will reflect this, but there will be other tradeoffs for equipping heavy armour, like reduced movement speed and visibility – it’s not easy to see out of those visors.

Finally, archery. I don’t get time to try it out, but Tobi says “the bow is a pretty powerful weapon, but it has no crosshair in the middle. It will kill pretty much anyone,” but it’ll take a lot of skill to use.

These are historically accurate tradeoffs, but ultimately Warhorse do recognise that they’re making a game. If it comes to it – and it has, in places – they’re prepared to sacrifice historicity for the sake of fun, balanced gameplay. “We’re not doing a simulation,” Tobi says. Compromises must be made.
 

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