Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Alkarl

Learned
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Messages
472
Kotor 2. That entire telos segment is so drawn out and exhausting there are mods made to skip it entirely.

No way, Telos was pretty cool... felt like the devs were playing SS2 at the time and wanted to reproduce the experience. There's just something about being lost in the middle of dark space and having an AI trying to off you ; ultimately it all comes down to 2001 Space Odyssey I guess. I think it's a really good hook, although it doesn't have anything to do with Star Wars. Which is why it was pretty good.

Telos isn't the beginning area of KOTOR 2. That would be Paragus Mining Facility. Which, by the way, is pretty decent. BUT it is part of that opening sequence, so whatever. Telos and Citadel from ME 1 have a bit in common. Of the 2, Telos is the more merciful.
I lump them all together, until you can get a ship and star travelling galactically.

Makes sense. I'm sure your point was obvious enough, I've just got a touch of the autism which compels me to split hairs.

What is it with devs and boring ass sequences like Telos and Citadel Station? I'm struggling to think of others, sequences where the game forces you to become familiar with an area for the express purpose of talking to dudes.

I get it, its a way to introduce the player to the world and various topics, but back in the day they left that shit in a manual. You'd just boot up the game and *blip* "You're Playing The Game". They left all the Slug Conservationalism and Jellyfish Religion to supplemental materials. Nowadays they gotta make the world feel "alive" but I'll be damned if they don't still dangle the carrot of inequity and avarice in your face if you don't give at least half a shit about these things. You don't get an exp reward for telling people where to stick their Jellyfish Gods. /rant
 

YES!

Hi, I'm Roqua
Dumbfuck
Joined
Feb 26, 2017
Messages
2,088
I usually love games with short intros, long party creation screens, and open swim-or-sink gameplay. And this is why the first Might and Magic game infuriates me, because it certainly tried, but god, I hate it.

First of all, having only six classes to choose from in games with six party slots should be illegal, especially when all other choices like race or alignment seem almost cosmetic at first, and dump stats abound. Compare this to Wizardry, where you can pick from 4 base classes (leaving two character slots to experiment with), where character alignment immediately determines what kind of party you can build, and where class swapping mitigates the dump stats problem (IQ may not be useful for fighters, but it does matter if he wants to eventually become a samurai).

Then there's Sorpigal, which for no good reason feels like a monster infested hellhole instead of a town. It would not be a particularly offensive place, but unfortunately it's almost impossible to leave before hitting at least level 3 which can take a while, especially for first-time players. Combat is fun, but this initial part of the game places the player too close of the save point, gives food almost for free, and gives very few spells to play with... And as a tutorial it also fails, making the player fight almost impossible foes (like Sprites) naked and with no money, never letting him flee from combat, and even hiding chests for those who did not RTFM, for no good reason.

And then the game gives the player the choice to explore either the outside world or a dark dungeon... And against all common sense the game expects you to do the latter, monsters outside are beasts. OK, they're not that difficult, the game just tricks you into thinking that placing almost impossible ambushes three steps out of Sorpigal, what the hell... Most other random encounters are quite manageable, but the player will not figure it out easily. And did I mention it is almost impossible to flee from combat?
This may be my fault since I certainly enjoy the Ultima approach more (an open world to fully explore at once sprinkled with some easily avoidable encounters, opposed to the more challenging dungeons), but I don't think I'm the only one annoyed by this.

The game eventually becomes quite good once the initial grind is over, exploring different landscapes far away from save points to find caves, towns and castles is very entertaining, its combat doesn't get old with an ever-increasing amount of monsters and spells, and some early customization options like alignment and gender become more important... But seriously, fuck Sorpigal.

I hate any game without a detailed character creation, or that has a cut scene dictating "your" character's character letting you know s/he isn't. Or when there is a detailed character creation that is just blown to shit by recruitable npcs forcing you to start over. I don't watch othert people playing video games. I go in blind. I hate thinking chargen matters and creating what I think will be a successful character and have the devs shit right all over my hopes and dreams. I hate recruitable npcs with a passion. Even in JA the 1.13 patch lets you create 10 characters. Why would I ever want to play someone else's character rather than one of my own?
 

Lonely Vazdru

Pimp my Title
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,659
Location
Agen
Good games with shit beginnings ? Let's see... first thing that comes to mind ? Homlet. Fucking Homlet.

Targos in Icewind Dale II isn't exactly thrilling either. Also, even though it just might be my favourite game of all times, I find the first X-Com missions with shit rifles/pistols/canons pretty boring. For me, the game really starts with laser rifles.
 

Zer0wing

Cipher
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
2,607
The Witcher 2. A set of cinematic cutscenes and god of war-style arenas that getting boring real quick until the game truly opens in Flotsam. Additional shit point for being misleading to what the game supposed to be.
 

T. Reich

Arcane
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
2,714
Location
not even close
Divine Divinity.
You're seemingly locked in a small backwoods village with seemingly no possibility to go outside (everyone warns you not to + there are actually scary orc hordes outside).
And there's seemingly nothing else to do but to go through the rather bland-looking dungeon slog.
The game drops zero hints that you can actually just run for it past the orcs and start to explore the huge open world.
No wonder that many, many people just dismissed the game as another diablo clone mererly based on the rather shitty start.
 

HeatEXTEND

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
3,981
Location
Nedderlent
ToEE, It's been a while but I remember fedexing up and down in order to be able to kill some skeletons in a field somewhere, game got much better after that first hurdle. and a lot worse again after entering anything started to caused lock-ups 50% of the time.
 

V_K

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
7,714
Location
at a Nowhere near you
Divine Divinity.
You're seemingly locked in a small backwoods village with seemingly no possibility to go outside (everyone warns you not to + there are actually scary orc hordes outside).
And there's seemingly nothing else to do but to go through the rather bland-looking dungeon slog.
The game drops zero hints that you can actually just run for it past the orcs and start to explore the huge open world.
No wonder that many, many people just dismissed the game as another diablo clone mererly based on the rather shitty start.
It's not like other dungeons in the game were any better though.
Also, it is a diablo clone, just with some elements of better RPGs mixed in (many of which don't really work). And this ancestry continues to undermine the series all the way to DOS.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom