Vapourware System Shock 3 by OtherSide Entertainment - taken over by Tencent!

[RoSoDude]

Someone old enough to play SS1 when it was released might have enjoyed it, absent the benefits of two decades of hindsight.

I distinctly remember moments where leaning around corners and other 'pointless' movement controls allows taking out security bots, cameras etc. without their spotting you.

Huh? You can still have precise movement inputs (lean, crouch, etc) and most/all of the depth there without flight simulator controls. The "complexity" of SS1's controls doesn't offer a scintilla of depth beyond what is achievable with modern control schemes.

The idea that you can't apply modern sensibilities to a game to analyze whether it needs updating -- for modern standards -- is hilarious. You can enjoy dated unwieldy junk for controls if you want, but it's fair to assess it as such. What shines from SS1 are the design aspects that still work -- the interactivity, level design, art direction, simulation detail, etc. These aspects would have shone through better, even and especially at the time, with a better control scheme. So your "millenials are entitled for wanting functional game control, only gamers of my era are enlightened enough to appreciate sweet vintage tank controls" schtick rings totally hollow.

(Despite this I find it totally reasonable to worry that SS3's development for console controllers could lead to a dumbed-down UI and interaction that doesn't take advantage of the strengths of mouse + keyboard)

 

[Ash]

Someone old enough to play SS1 when it was released might have enjoyed it, absent the benefits of two decades of hindsight.

I distinctly remember moments where leaning around corners and other 'pointless' movement controls allows taking out security bots, cameras etc. without their spotting you.

I'm not ripping on the controls in the context of the time they were released. I like leaning, and multi-stage leaning. the point is simply that the argument of "Shock used a lot of keys and thus can't be fit on a pad" is not relevant in the context of today's control schemes. free-looking eliminates the many keys on the control sheet that were used for looking. The left analog stick eliminates walking, strafing, backpedaling etc. The only actual potentially problematic issues that remain is the numerous hotkeys for the Hacker's hardware, and the cursor interactivity in relation to the user interface. Personally I have my own desired solutions for the Shock remake + 3 to not compromise the experience given they are multiplatform, but there's no point getting into it here, or ever, because the devs probably wouldn't listen, add horrid weapon wheels, remove depth of interactivity, dumb everything down and call it a day. Same as all modern "Immersive Sims".

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Shock1 on joysticks would need to be substantially changed. UI. Cursor movement. Retainable, adjustable stances, leaning etc. What the fuck for? Are you that enamoured with gamepads that you are going to argue they are better?

 

[Ash]

No, I'm enamored with the Immersive Sim and hate to see it dumbed down. Especially when I don't think it's strictly even necessary and people just blame consoles instead of sellout devs/general commercialization. Check out Arx Fatalis' port for the best/relatively faithful example of a "consolized" Im Sim, and even that I think could and should have been more faithful.

Shock1 on joysticks would need to be substantially changed

What if Morpheus told you it's possible to play Shock 1 right now with a console pad? Would you self-combust? Would your mind blow out into orbit?
"Need" and what is actually possible are two different things.

Are you that enamoured with gamepads that you are going to argue they are better?

Better than what? Keyboard-lookingl? Absolutely.

Also at the end of the day, Ultima Underworld was ported to consoles. Little is seemingly different in gameplay (at least at first glance) except the GUI and even that had cursor control with the damn d-pad.

If we must have multiplatform Immersive Sims, let's not be ignorant of what a console is actually capable of and then blame the hardware and turdification of the PC version for what is essentially optimal commercialization.

 

[Dev_Anj]

There's a lot of difference between being able to do something and doing it well. Sure, you can have RTSes on a console, but no serious RTS player is ever going to play them on those. Ditto with shooters, no serious FPS player worth their salt would accept console control for it. Yes, Arx Fatalis, Ultima Underworld, Deus Ex and Age of Empires were ported to consoles, but that doesn't mean the ports were actually good. Gamepads are frankly more for convenience than they are for good control schemes. Please don't bring up the pressure sensitive button stuff, because in practice it doesn't work well and keyboards can already give a similar level of control, as emulators have proved.

 

[DeepOcean]

I liked the Citadel station more on SS1 than the ship on SS 2 as a location and in terms of level design, SS 2 is better in terms of systems though, they are both great for different reasons. I don't even mind play a shooter with no RPG elements if survival is a big thing and it has that carefully designed progression that SS 1 through items and weapons with enough complexity on level design.

My major fear is that they are going to do a Bioshock kind of game, or on another words, a console shooter with System Shock only on the name. Dead Space is another possible route too that wouldn't be as bad as Bioshock but still disappointing, popamole shooter with some superficial similarities with SS, the horror atmosphere and the fact of you exploring a ship with you backtracking on levels.

The fact that is going to be multiplatform is very suspicious however the budget they are getting, 12 million dollars, is a drop in the bucket for AAA popamole game, this wouldn't come any close to make a popamole shooter. This could mean they don't plan to target for AAA audiences.

I dunno, how they gonna make a big game like SS 1 and SS 2 on modern graphix that don't look awful at 12 million dollars to the average console peasant?

Maybe they are going the route of some indie shooters of highly stylized graphics? Procedural generation? With all its problems?

There was a really buggy game released by some small team kinda recently that is so buggy and unpolished that barely works... I forgot the name. I remember it was impressive even if it barely worked, maybe with those 12 million dollars they could make a polished version of that?

 

[Ash]

I detest the smell of ignorance in the morning.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Still got a lot to learn.

 

[Dev_Anj]

So much for his "design mastery" credentials, eh?

 

[Ash]

Still got a lot to learn.

Yes, today I benefited from the wisdom of the Doc and learned that convoluted controls are awesome in the eyes of some for reasons unknown. And that's about it.
About the only benefit arising from Shock's keyboard convolution is providing some form of difficulty where the game's systems failed to provide it, said failure nicely explained by a previous poster.

 

[Declinator]

Can't apply modern sensibilities to the past. This should be obvious.

And yes complexity was cool. I still have my 700+ page Falcon manuals. Very complex controls and systems is half the reason to love that game.

System Shock 1 isn't very complex at all. System Shock manual has less than 50 pages.

This isn't even a particularly difficult challenge for a gamepad. Maybe press L3 once to adjust lean + stance and press again to return to basic camera control. This isn't even R6 complex and doesn't begin to approach Falcon level.

Now obviously I'm not saying this would be better than KB and mouse. Keyboard and mouse is peerless for first-person shooters but it is very much possible to do and frankly would probably play at least better than no mouse-look mod System Shock.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

By 1993 standards of 3 dimensional first person computer games, it was supremely complex. This might be giving you difficulty so let me break it down. I didn't compare Falcon complexity to SS1, I highlighted that some people like complexity and pointed to combat sims as an example.

 

[Zombra]

"Complex" = "Convoluted"

 

[LESS T_T]

Lead Designer at Otherside Austin, Chip Sbrogna:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/csbrogna/
http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,46383/

He has some interesting level deign career:

Level Designer / Ultima X: Odyssey

"one of only four level designers (contract position)" / Metroid Prime 2: Echoes

Level Design Director (offline) / Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter

Senior Level Designer / God of War II

Level Designer / Portal 2 Sixense MotionPack DLC

Puzzle Designer / Rise of the Tomb Raider

 

[LESS T_T]

Jason Hughes
Technical Director at OtherSide Entertainment

We are searching for a game programmer with strong AI chops who is up for a major challenge. If you or someone you know would like to live in Austin, TX and be the architect of the brilliant and dynamic enemy AI for *System Shock 3*, please get in touch with me.

(We have other programmer positions opening up as well. Inquire within!)

 

[LESS T_T]

Starbreeze will host a livestream event to showcase their titles, including System Shock 3 and Psychonauts 2: http://www.starbreeze.com/starstream/

Come one come all! Starbreeze invites you to an exclusive live-streamed event on Twitch.tv May 10 starting 9am PST /12pm EST/ 6pm CEST featuring first looks and previews, in depth interviews and fun for the whole community on a number of Starbreeze projects including:

OVERKILL’s The Walking Dead, PAYDAY 2®, an introduction to the universe of System Shock 3®, Psychonauts 2, Dead by Daylight and a panel titled “Veterans of the Industry” featuring Warren Spector, Tim Schafer and Bo Andersson.

Players around the world can tune in to the Starbreeze Twitch Stream on May 10: https://www.twitch.tv/starbreeze to follow the event.

Starting 9am PST / 12pm EST / 6pm CEST, the segments will include features and titles such as:

• OVERKILL’s The Walking Dead
• Psychonauts 2
• System Shock 3
• Exclusive PAYDAY 2 announcement
• “A Veterans of the Industry” panel featuring Warren Spector, Tim Shafer and Bo Andersson.
• RAID: World War II
• Deliver Us The Moon
• Trailers and unveils
• Community interaction and giveaways and more

I guess we can expect interview and teaser at most for SS3 at this stage.

 

[LESS T_T]

Interview and new concept arts: https://www.polygon.com/2017/5/10/15611526/system-shock-3-concept-art-warren-spector-interview

Warren Spector’s sure System Shock 3 will stand out from the pack

System Shock fans were treated to a new look at the game’s long-awaited sequel today, with new concept art shown off during a livestream event hosted by publisher Starbreeze Studios.

Polygon’s got some additional peeks at System Shock 3’s world, courtesy of Starbreeze, developer Otherside Entertainment and the game’s returning designer, Warren Spector. Both are pieces of early concept art meant to set the tone for the cyperbunk action game, set on a lonely space station years in the future.

Spector’s return to the series comes more than 23 years after the original System Shock, hailed as an innovative action role-playing game at its time of release. Although he wasn’t involved with System Shock 2, Spector told Polygon that returning to the series after two-plus decades was an easy decision.

“I produced System Shock and played System Shock 2 so I’m pretty familiar with the universe,” Spector said. “And there were some fictional loose ends to explore and tie up. That sounded like fun. Also, SHODAN. You know what I mean?”

SHODAN, the A.I. being that terrorizes the player throughout every System Shock game, is absent from what we saw today. Yet she’ll again play a significant role in System Shock 3, just as Spector told us last August. The game picks up where System Shock 2 left off, when — spoiler alert for the 1999 RPG — SHODAN takes the form of a human woman.

As genre-defining as System Shock 2 and its predecessor were in the 1990s, the concept — “you alone on a space station,” as Spector called it — has come to feel commonplace these days, in the post-BioShock era. The recent release of Prey, which pays obvious homage to System Shock developer Looking Glass Studios in myriad ways, may further point to the genre’s mainstream familiarity.

Now that System Shock’s setting and storyline isn’t quite so unique, is Spector concerned about System Shock 3 failing to stand out among the pack?

“I think having more immersive simulation games out there is all to the good,” said Spector. “Based on what I’ve seen of Prey so far, there are some similarities but I assure you we’re doing stuff that team didn’t do, just as they did stuff we’re not. I’m not worried about people getting confused.”

System Shock 3 remains a ways ahead; it’s due out on PC and consoles, but no release window has been specified. Spector mentioned during the Starbreeze livestream that the team would be “transitioning into pre-production” soon. For more concept art, check out the gallery below.

In the meantime, a reboot of the original System Shock is coming sometime in 2018 from Nightdive Studios.

Concept arts:

Also, pieces I captured from the Stabreeze stream:

Stream itself has nothing particularly new though.

 

[RoSoDude]

Oh man. Those colors. Definitely evoking SS1 more than SS2 in the art style, which I don't view as a bad thing at all.

Granted, it's just concept art, and meaty gameplay is what matters here. But my baser instincts to get hyped off of pretty pictures are kicking in.

 

[Infinitron]

Whoops, forgot about this. Thanks for watching, LESS T_T.

Here's a link to the archived version: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/141540011?t=01h37m00s

 

[Aenra]

LESS T_T deserves news-posting rights. And more brofists

 

[vortex]

Who are writers for SS3?

 

[RoSoDude]

Who are writers for SS3?

Sheldon Pacotti, writer for Deus Ex, is design director. Don't know if we know about writer yet.

http://otherside-e.com/wp/pc-gamer-system-shock-3-reveals-dream-development-team/

 

[LESS T_T]

RedBull interview with Warren Spector: http://www.redbull.com/en/games/stories/1331858763716/system-shock-3-interview-red-bull-games

Talks about the general direction and goal ("a balance of the two [System Shock] games") of SS3, the Hacker as the hero and (obviously) Shodan as the adversary, portrayal of Shodan, possibility of Switch version , Night Dive's SS reboot ("Our game will be sufficiently differentiated that I'm not worried about it").

Given that System Shock 3 is still very early in development, Spector's team remains relatively compact at present. "It's just me, tech director Jason Hughes, art director Arturo Pulecio and design director Chip Sbrogna," he explains. "We're in concept phase, where we blue-sky what game we want to make before diving into pre-production to determine how to build that game. You don't want a big team in concept phase. All three of the guys here have more than 15 years of experience so they know what they're doing. We've also gotten support from Paul and others up in Boston who worked on the original System Shock games."

While Spector is famous for being the driving force behind the 1994 original, the sequel, which appeared in 1999, was produced without his input, yet is also lauded by the press and public alike.

While you might assume that Spector would therefore gravitate towards the first title when it comes to the theme of System Shock 3, he reveals that he's a fan of the second game as well, and wants to mix the best elements of both in this new venture. "People loved System Shock 2," he says. "I played the second game, of course, and enjoyed it immensely, but I have a soft spot in my heart for the first game, which took a less traditional approach to roleplaying than the sequel. We've been wrestling with how RPG-ish System Shock 3 should be, how to deal with the 'Psi' powers introduced in System Shock 2 and whether to go for System Shock 2's more overt horrific elements. I think players will find we've achieved a balance of the two games. That's our goal, certainly."

Indeed, it would appear that Spector has some key objectives in mind for this new release, and that includes tying up a few loose ends and reviving some old concepts. "When I say we're making a System Shock game, there are some things I really want to do," he says. "I want to include Citadel Station, even though it was – apparently – destroyed in the original System Shock. I want to include Shodan as the primary adversary, obivously. And I want to get back to the Hacker as the hero. In tone – fear, paranoia, tension – we'll follow the lead of System Shock and System Shock 2, for sure. But will the game pick up directly after the second game? You'll have to wait and see."

When you talk about the System Shock series, it's impossible to simply skip over the role of Shodan, the quite terrifying AI antagonist. Learning that this devilish creation will play a major role in System Shock 3 should trigger a mixture of joy and trepidation in long-time fans of the games, all the more so since AI has made such astonishing leaps since the 1990s.

"Shodan will definitely play a role, but I want to keep the details to myself for now," says Spector with a smile. "What I will say is that we'll be investigating some of her motivations from the earlier games, instead of just treating her as if she were insane. She deserves better than that. She's super intelligent and should behave that way. She isn't insane; everything she does makes sense to her. We're going to play with that in System Shock 3."

Of course, the playing field has moved on a lot in the last quarter of a century. It's tempting to ponder if these titles really stand up when compared to subsequent examples of the genre. Thankfully, Spector insists that this new outing will be brought bang up to to date. "We’ve learned a lot about creating immersive simulations since the '90s, and you’ll see those lessons brought to bear in System Shock 3," he says.

In terms of inspiration, he admits that he often has to fight the urge to reference another of his most famous games, but he also has admiration for other recent titles. "I find it hard not to be influenced by Deus Ex, for better or worse. I have to work hard not to turn the games I work on into Deus Ex-style games. There are some things about Shadow of Mordor that we find appealing, though it's obviously a very different style of game. Prey, most recently, certainly feels System Shock-y. But we're really trying to do our own thing rather than borrow from other games."

Thanks to a deal with Starbreeze, System Shock 3 will be coming to consoles as well as PC, and Spector reveals that working with the Swedish company has been a pleasant experience. "Starbreeze has been great to work with. They've been hugely important. For starters, they're funding the game! Beyond that, they have expertise in some areas we want to explore that I, at least, don't have. I'm learning a lot from the folks at Starbreeze. Plus they're just good humans. I'm actually trying to teach myself Swedish, that's how important Starbreeze is to this project. Learning their language is the least I can do."

Spector admits that porting the game to consoles will represent a sizeable challenge, given the PC origins of the series, and while it's still too early to discuss final platforms, he's not able to confirm or deny that a Nintendo Switch edition could happen.

The man who created the sublime Nintendo exclusive Epic Mickey clearly has a lot of affection for the Japanese veterans, though. "I'm awfully proud of the team and the game we made," he says when reminded of the critically-acclaimed Wii release. "As far as the Switch goes, I wish I had one! If Nintendo wants to send me one, I won't turn it down. Otherwise I'm going to have to wait for some store to get them in stock, just like everyone else. I need to play the new Zelda game! As soon as I get a Switch, I'm likely to disappear for a while.

"Will System Shock 3 show up on the Switch? Honestly, I have no idea. That might actually be a question better answered by the Starbreeze folks."

A question that Spector is better positioned to answer is when we'll actually see System Shock 3 in any form. "You never ask a developer that question!" he shoots back with a smile. "That aside, it's way too early to be talking about release dates."

System Shock fans may have had to wait quite some time for a new title, but ironically they're actually getting two games thanks to the fact that Night Dive Studios is also remaking the 1994 original using modern tech.

"Both Paul Neurath and I have spoken with Night Dive about what they're doing, but we're doing our thing and they're doing theirs so there hasn't been much opportunity to provide input," says Spector. "I think what I've seen looks cool, and I'm looking forward to playing System Shock again in a more modern form. I think having the original System Shock game out there is likely to remind people how cool the franchise is, as well as bringing new people into the Shock fan community. From that perspective, it's all good. Our game will be sufficiently differentiated that I'm not worried about it."

We end our chat with one of the gaming industry's true legends by asking how he feels to have been involved with such an influential and beloved video game creation. Humble as ever, Spector refuses to take too much credit. "The team at Looking Glass was insanely talented, on an individual level and collectively. The guy who deserves the most credit for System Shock's success is really Doug Church – he led the day-to-day charge on the game. A real secret master of gaming.

"It is nice to have worked on a game that 'changed things', if only a bit. I mean, I can look at Thief and Bioshock and Deus Ex, now Prey, and see a bit of System Shock in each of them. That's pretty darn cool. I'm just glad to have played a part in the process."

 

[Aenra]

I want to believe, but deep down, i know...

 

[Grauken]

everything turns to shit

codex approved axiom