How come no one but the people of the Codex

[Max Stats]

I have no personal opinion on Earthbound as I've never even heard of it before.

Not sure if too old or too young for a very well known 90's game.

 

[buru5]

I have no personal opinion on Earthbound as I've never even heard of it before.

Not sure if too old or too young for a very well known 90's game.

He's really not missing out on much.

 

[HoboForEternity]

The same reason why geniuses like Einstein and da vinci are a rare occurence.

Most people are born idiots, and smart people are always minority, and majority, are the ones usually have the power and so is why we live in the world where justin bieber sells a million copies and prestigious musicians are indie guys with not even real studios, and a world where kim kadarshian is famous and rich, where brilliant scientists, inventor, doctors are dont receive nearly enough budgets for research

 

[Sigourn]

The same reason why geniuses like Einstein and da vinci are a rare occurence.

Most people are born idiots, and smart people are always minority, and majority, are the ones usually have the power and so is why we live in the world where justin bieber sells a million copies and prestigious musicians are indie guys with not even real studios, and a world where kim kadarshian is famous and rich, where brilliant scientists, inventor, doctors are dont receive nearly enough budgets for research

Whereas Einstein and Da Vinci are verifiable very smart people, enjoying different types of games doesn't make you a genius. If anything, the lack of understanding that different people prefer different types of experiences makes you a retard.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

The same reason why geniuses like Einstein and da vinci are a rare occurence.

Most people are born idiots, and smart people are always minority, and majority, are the ones usually have the power and so is why we live in the world where justin bieber sells a million copies and prestigious musicians are indie guys with not even real studios, and a world where kim kadarshian is famous and rich, where brilliant scientists, inventor, doctors are dont receive nearly enough budgets for research

Whereas Einstein and Da Vinci are verifiable very smart people, enjoying different types of games doesn't make you a genius. If anything, the lack of understanding that different people prefer different types of experiences makes you a retard.

Its almost like you're deliberately ignoring anything anyone says and just repeating the same thing over and over again...

 

[HeatEXTEND]

The same reason why geniuses like Einstein and da vinci are a rare occurence.

Most people are born idiots, and smart people are always minority, and majority, are the ones usually have the power and so is why we live in the world where justin bieber sells a million copies and prestigious musicians are indie guys with not even real studios, and a world where kim kadarshian is famous and rich, where brilliant scientists, inventor, doctors are dont receive nearly enough budgets for research

Whereas Einstein and Da Vinci are verifiable very smart people, enjoying different types of games doesn't make you a genius. If anything, the lack of understanding that different people prefer different types of experiences makes you a retard.

Its almost like you're deliberately ignoring anything anyone says and just repeating the same thing over and over again...

Isn't it obvious ? He's just trying to internalize/rationalize the fact that he thinks Skyrim is fun

 

[Vibalist]

you tell me, what is this 'fun'?

There's our new tag.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

The same reason why geniuses like Einstein and da vinci are a rare occurence.

Most people are born idiots, and smart people are always minority, and majority, are the ones usually have the power and so is why we live in the world where justin bieber sells a million copies and prestigious musicians are indie guys with not even real studios, and a world where kim kadarshian is famous and rich, where brilliant scientists, inventor, doctors are dont receive nearly enough budgets for research

"I only play games for smart gamers such as myself".

pretty much :im14andthisisdeep:

 

[Sigourn]

Isn't it obvious ? He's just trying to internalize/rationalize the fact that he thinks Skyrim is fun

It isn't hard. You just got to accept acting "deep" is stupid and some games are simply good fun. That's when I stopped trashing the "overrated garbage" of Todd Howard, and accepted the reality: it is really the most fun RPG I've ever played, though I'd wager GTA V is the most fun videogame I've ever played, now that I think of it.

 

[Neanderthal]

Personally i'm always bored as shit by larping simulators, now Freedom Force say, or Volgar the Viking, Duke Nukem 3d, Punisher torturing, a good close run skirmish in Dawn of War, or a good scrap in Severance: Blade of Darkness they're fucking fun. All subjective I suppose but Skyrim dunt seem especially exciting in grand roster o games.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

It isn't hard. You just got to accept acting "deep" is stupid and some games are simply good fun. That's when I stopped trashing the "overrated garbage" of Todd Howard, and accepted the reality: it is really the most fun RPG I've ever played, though I'd wager GTA V is the most fun videogame I've ever played, now that I think of it.

"Fuck you, I like Skyrim" would have sufficed, in the end to each his own. Regarding yourself as some enlightened free-thinker because of it is a bit much fucking retadred.
It seems to me you are in fact the one being butthurt with people thinking that what you find fun is utter shit.

Oh, and "acting deep" ? Only fucking idiots like things because they are """deep""", and the only ones who don't realize this, are said people.

 

[ColonelTeacup]

Isn't it obvious ? He's just trying to internalize/rationalize the fact that he thinks Skyrim is fun

It isn't hard. You just got to accept acting "deep" is stupid and some games are simply good fun. That's when I stopped trashing the "overrated garbage" of Todd Howard, and accepted the reality: it is really the most fun RPG I've ever played, though I'd wager GTA V is the most fun videogame I've ever played, now that I think of it.

Have you considered that you just might be stupid and complex narratives,plotlines and mechanics in games are too much for you to handle?

 

[Sigourn]

"Fuck you, I like Skyrim" would have sufficed, in the end to each his own. Regarding yourself as some enlightened free-thinker because of it is a bit much fucking retadred.
It seems to me you are in fact the one being butthurt with people thinking that what you find fun is utter shit.

Oh, and "acting deep" ? Only fucking idiots like things because they are """deep""", and the only ones who don't realize this, are said people.

Have you considered that you just might be stupid and complex narratives,plotlines and mechanics in games are too much for you to handle?

It's kind of sad how hard it is for someone to understand that "fun" isn't the same for everyone.

I'll say it again: if I'm "stupid" because I don't find Fallout fun, it's just as logical for me to say you are "stupid" for not finding Skyrim fun.

Lastly

It seems to me you are in fact the one being butthurt with people thinking that what you find fun is utter shit.

Games like Skyrim sell like hotcakes and extremely enjoyed by the people who like them. Proper cRPGs need to be Kickstarted, and even then they are of dubious quality to the people who admittedly like them.

I'm pretty sure you are the one that is butthurt in this conversation. If it was the reverse case, "complex and thoughtful cRPGs are the most popular games around, and games like Skyrim that are mindless fun do not sell", I'm more than confident we wouldn't be having this conversation. Have you noticed how mainstream players don't even pay attention to cRPGs, while it is the RPG Codex the one that constantly trashes more popular, mainstream games?

buru5 is one of the few (if not the only one) who has understood everything I said, and knows I don't say it with the purpose of "trolling" or "angering" others. They are just plain facts. He just doesn't have his head so far up his ass like others do, and he plays cRPGs because he finds them genuinely fun, and not because in addition it allows him to feel superior to other players.

And for the last time: Planescape: Torment and Fallout are "the best cRPGs of all time" according to the Codex. I played them, beat them, and honestly? They are fairly casual games, it doesn't help your "you are too stoopid" point.

EDIT: I hope the people who said I was stupid aren't unironically resorting to ad hominem attacks to "prove" their superiority.

 

[RepHope]

Part of why they're so well loved is that there really isn't much competition in the AAA RPG space. For a long fucking time if you wanted to play an AAA RPG your only choices were Bethesda or Bioware. Bethesda were the only ones making sandbox RPGs while Bioware got the storyfags.

Both of them have been taking some hits in the public eye recently. Even the casual audience didn't think much of FO4 although it sold a shit ton. But then we look at Bioware where DAI sold a decent amount but isn't held in high esteem and then MEA ended up suffering for being shit.

Recently both Obsidian and CDPR have achieved some success, although Obsidian much less so. New Vegas is about 7 years old now, and we'll see if Obsidian can avoid fucking themselves over with this upcoming Cain project.

 

[Neanderthal]

Well both Bioware an Bethesda have been dumbing down, stripping features and degenerating for a good while now, its only logical to criticise their games when they can't match what their predecessors did yonks ago. Course you could say thats a good thing cos o bigger sales but only a dumbfuck uses argument that popularity equals quality.

 

[Sigourn]

Well both Bioware an Bethesda have been dumbing down, stripping features and degenerating for a good while now, its only logical to criticise their games when they can't match what their predecessors did yonks ago. Course you could say thats a good thing cos o bigger sales but only a dumbfuck uses argument that popularity equals quality.

It's true, but that's not the argument I'm making. People genuinely love those games in ways the Codex hasn't loved a game since... well, forever.

The casual gamer has every reason in the world to be a happy gamer. The average Codexer, on the other hand, doesn't. Unless, of course, he resorts to playing old cRPGs he hasn't played already, but even then I would argue that Codexer would rather have new classics made, over replaying games from 30 years ago.

 

[Neanderthal]

So your argument is we should like shit games, stop lookin for quality an admire dumbing down thats endemic in industry? Sorry gotta disagree there, i'm as happy as a pig in shit wi replaying all me old games, an occassional new un thats not crap, an I don't see why I have to lower me standards at all.

 

[Sigourn]

So your argument is we should like shit games

No. Because you are unable (or unwilling) to listen to what I'm saying and actually paying atention, I'd rather just drop it here.

In case you want to actually continue the discussion, however:

Spoiler

This was never an argument about what we should or we should not like. My comment was directed at the user who claimed I was butthurt for liking Skyrim and people not liking it. How could I, when games like Skyrim are the fad and thus they keep making them, meaning I am able to greatly enjoy far more games than the average Codexer? It's not a difficult thing to understand, I'm 100% sure (and anyone who thinks differently is lying) that if the Codex could, they would gladly swap places with the "dumbed down" RPGs: make classic RPGs the latest fad that sells, as opposed to games like Skyrim, so you don't have to rely on Kickstarted games with a fraction of the budget that AAA casual games have. Unless, of course, for some reason you like the half-assed look of games like Wasteland 2.

 

[Neanderthal]

So your argument is we should like shit games

No. Because you are unable (or unwilling) to listen to what I'm saying and actually paying atention, I'd rather just drop it here.

In case you want to actually continue the discussion, however:

Spoiler

This was never an argument about what we should or we should not like. My comment was directed at the user who claimed I was butthurt for liking Skyrim and people not liking it. How could I, when games like Skyrim are the fad and thus they keep making them, meaning I am able to greatly enjoy far more games than the average Codexer? It's not a difficult thing to understand, I'm 100% sure (and anyone who thinks differently is lying) that if the Codex could, they would gladly swap places with the "dumbed down" RPGs: make classic RPGs the latest fad that sells, as opposed to games like Skyrim, so you don't have to rely on Kickstarted games with a fraction of the budget that AAA casual games have. Unless, of course, for some reason you like the half-assed look of games like Wasteland 2.

If you like Skyrim then fuck them who don't, go an do your consequence free larping to your hearts content an never mind what anybody says. Or stock up on preparation h.

As for swapping places wi sales numbers on Skyrim no, we've all seen what cutbacks an catering to widest audience forces them kinda games to become, i'll take mid tier games aimed at a niche audience that aim for a bit of quality. Good art design has nowt to do wi budget or popularity usually, often totally opposite.

 

[buru5]

Have you considered that you just might be stupid and complex narratives,plotlines and mechanics in games are too much for you to handle?

I would argue that plot and narrative has very little to do with making a good game. If anything, too much of a focus on these things can detract from a game. P:T being a good example. Of course I was aruging for subjectivity, so this is mostly determined by my personal tastes. But I'd rather be playing than reading.

 

[Sigourn]

If you like Skyrim then fuck them who don't, go an do your consequence free larping to your hearts content an never mind what anybody says. Or stock up on preparation h.

You still don't understand. I couldn't care less that some people don't like Skyrim. What I find annoying is that people thing they are somehow superior to others because they find other types of games fun. It's illogical in any way imaginable, especially because being able to play a game isn't in any way or form related to having fun with it.

Regarding the other thing: it was a hypothetical comment made in an idealized world, where people really like more complex games as opposed to the simpler games. Kind of hard for there to be "casualization" when there's no reason to appeal to the casual gamer.

 

[Neanderthal]

Have you considered that you just might be stupid and complex narratives,plotlines and mechanics in games are too much for you to handle?

I would argue that plot and narrative has very little to do with making a good game. If anything, too much of a focus on these things can detract from a game. P:T being a good example. Of course I was aruging for subjectivity, so this is mostly determined by my personal tastes. But I'd rather be playing than reading.

I never said that, don't know who did.

Sigourn find better things to be annoyed about, so bloke thinks you're a cunt for liking a shit game, fuck im an forget it. Its Codex an this goes wi territory.

 

[buru5]

Have you considered that you just might be stupid and complex narratives,plotlines and mechanics in games are too much for you to handle?

I would argue that plot and narrative has very little to do with making a good game. If anything, too much of a focus on these things can detract from a game. P:T being a good example. Of course I was aruging for subjectivity, so this is mostly determined by my personal tastes. But I'd rather be playing than reading.

I never said that, don't know who did.

Sigourn find better things to be annoyed about, so bloke thinks you're a cunt for liking a shit game, fuck im an forget it. Its Codex an this goes wi territory.

Weird, I don't know how that happened. The quoted material is from ColonelTeacup. I'll go ahead and edit that.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Video games are more like pop music in terms of subjectivity though. Yes, you can identify what makes a game great, but no matter how good your argument, if a person doesn't subjectively care, they've no reason to care. It just so happens that people who've played a lot of a certain type of game in a certain kind of way, 'enthusiasts' rather than mindless hours spent, tend to develop a refined set of tastes. But nobody has come up with a convincing reason why those tastes matter, or why someone who doesn't have them should have them.

The rock and stone of the universe doesn't care about computer games. And unlike music or classical art, there's no religious connection or value either - nobody makes computer games to capture beauty or the divine. Nor is there any aspect of a computer game that has any worth to any great secular humanist project. Nietszche's ubermensch wouldn't stoop to giving a shit about our hobby. Computer games aren't poetry either - they aren't made to capture emotion or value in a way that we all feel but can't directly express.

So comparisons to sculpture, painting, great music and literature are utterly misplaced. A better comparison would be baseball, rugby, chess...all perfectly respectable hobbies whose supporters are not in the least bit ashamed of their lack of objective merit. A debate about whether tennis is better or worse than basketball is rightly confined to drunken pub talk, where you might shit-talk at each other for fun, but nobody takes such an argument seriously.

None of which means that you ought to back down from your views on whether a game is good or bad, or what refined tastes players should cultivate. Subjectivity is what motivates - nobody gets passionate about objective observations. Just don't expect to ever prove yourself right.

 

[buru5]

Video games are more like pop music in terms of subjectivity though. Yes, you can identify what makes a game great, but no matter how good your argument, if a person doesn't subjectively care, they've no reason to care. It just so happens that people who've played a lot of a certain type of game in a certain kind of way, 'enthusiasts' rather than mindless hours spent, tend to develop a refined set of tastes. But nobody has come up with a convincing reason why those tastes matter, or why someone who doesn't have them should have them.

The rock and stone of the universe doesn't care about computer games. And unlike music or classical art, there's no religious connection or value either - nobody makes computer games to capture beauty or the divine. Nor is there any aspect of a computer game that has any worth to any great secular humanist project. Nietszche's ubermensch wouldn't stoop to giving a shit about our hobby. Computer games aren't poetry either - they aren't made to capture emotion or value in a way that we all feel but can't directly express.

So comparisons to sculpture, painting, great music and literature are utterly misplaced. A better comparison would be baseball, rugby, chess...all perfectly respectable hobbies whose supporters are not in the least bit ashamed of their lack of objective merit. A debate about whether tennis is better or worse than basketball is rightly confined to drunken pub talk, where you might shit-talk at each other for fun, but nobody takes such an argument seriously.

None of which means that you ought to back down from your views on whether a game is good or bad, or what refined tastes players should cultivate. Subjectivity is what motivates - nobody gets passionate about objective observations. Just don't expect to ever prove yourself right.

10/10 GOTY post