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Blobbers

Severian Silk

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I am thinking about the "blobber" genre.

1. Are Betrayal at Krondor, Realms of Arkania and Gold Box games considered "blobbers"? They all have tactics-style combat.
2. Are there "blobbers" that are not RPGs?
3. Do all "blobbers" feature more than one character in the party?
 

Bruma Hobo

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1. They're just half-breeds, not unlike Lords of Xulima or Final Fantasy.
2. Lots of Japanese games with blob combat are not RPGs, since they don't allow to customize your characters nor any kind of freedom or player expression. They're just adventure games with stats.
3. Step-based first-person games do not qualify, you need a real blob (not just an American land-whale) to make a blobber.
 

V_K

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Stop insulting adventure games! :fight:

1. Are Betrayal at Krondor, Realms of Arkania and Gold Box games considered "blobbers"? They all have tactics-style combat.
2. Are there "blobbers" that are not RPGs?
3. Do all "blobbers" feature more than one character in the party?
It all depends on what do you consider a blobber's pirmary trait. If it's blobber combat you want (i.e. fast, limited positioning options, emphasizing long-term resource management more than mintute-to-minute tactics), then 1. would be a definite no, and 3. would be a likely no.
On the other hand there are many secondary traits to the blobber genre: high level of abstraction, puzzle-like level design, hardcore resource management and survival, minimal story and little to no NPC interactions etc. In that regards BaK and RoA (but not Goldboxes) would probably qualify as blobbers, or half-blobbers, as would some single-character games like Anvil of Dawn or Legacy: Realm of Terror.
As for 2., the only game I can think of that would be a non-rpg but still qualify as a blobber (and in both senses at that) is Attic's Lords of Doom. From what I remember, characters there didn't have stats, only hunger/thirst/hp meters, but all other blobber staples were present.
 

octavius

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No way BaK and the Gold Box games could be construed as blobbers. What defines a blobber is that the party members always occupy the same square.

Anvil of Dawn and Legacy: Realm of Terror share the general characteristics of blobbers that you mention, the only difference being that they have one man parties.
 

V_K

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No way BaK and the Gold Box games could be construed as blobbers. What defines a blobber is that the party members always occupy the same square.
From an essentialist/purist perspective, sure. But pragmatically speaking, if we have someone who likes M&M, DM and, say, later Wizardries, chances of them enjoying BaK or RoA are much higher than, for example, BG. So it makes sense having them in the same category, even as borderline cases.
In other words, party members occupying a single square or several squares doesn't define the player experience with the game as much as secondary conventions with regard to level design etc. do. Even though combat in BaK and RoA takes place on a separate map, it doesn't automatically make it a more involved affair than blobber combat. It's usually over just as fast.
 
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aweigh

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i was half-way through an insanely long winded post and i was typing out the history of plato blobbers and shit when i realized WTF am i doing.

a blobber is a game, should be turn-based, movement should "grid-based" (i.e. the game world is composed of tiles/squares). why? cos that is for mapping purposes. this is intentional.

why? because the main misconception ppl make about blobbers is that they're combat-simulators of some sort (lewl), in reality blobbers main design goal is for the player to explore environments; and historically and traditionally these environments have been dungeon-types.

why? because all, all of the first blobbers, made in mid-70s and onwards, were directly made with the express goal (among other goals) of reproducing the type fo dungeon diving dungeon exploration the devs enjoyed in war gaming / d and d.

anyway, in closing, the actual "blob" the term refers to is a term of endearment coined, i think, by US, the rpg codex, which aims to explain a distinct type of game play:

- first-person view (and/or featuering a "view-port", which is something similar but not)
- player's party members are all completely abstracted and thus end up becoming simply appendages, limbs, all attached to the "blob" which is constantly walking around through the game world mapping the environment, solving puzzles, defeating enemies, finding great treasure, avoiding deadly traps, and growing always more powerful and sometimes becoming better versions of themselves in the form of a "super" class.

- it is the complete opposite of "modern" RPG approach where it is extremely important that everything is presented and framed properly for the player, be it an overhead/isometric/cavalier view of the game world or the characters, over-the-shoulder style, or some hybrid view or whatever;

- instead the "blobber" aims for a balance between tactical choices (be it for the encounters or for solving the ways needed to "clear" the next dungeon/area); resource management (dovetails with the aforementioned tactical layer as everything is scarce in a good blobber and it is also why the d and d style Vancian spell system fit so snugly it never left and never will leave-- resources are verything: hit points, items, spell castings, amount of maps needed or left in order to explore dungeons, non-combat items that interact with the dungeons/areas like, for example, a simple torch that might go out and be limited in its use and thus a key item when trying to explore/navigate areas of the game where everything is pitch-black, the infamous dark zones--

--and so on and so forth... abstraction + a reasonable array of tactical choices + a very robust additoinal layer of both resource management and "party management" systemic elements, which in any other RPG would be almost impossible to pull off due to high costs of not having the liberty of abstracting everything, i..e not having the liberty of simply making your 8-person party a simple "blob" that doesn't even feature character models or animations.

- the straight-foward approach then, of the Blob, was then optimized and polished through the years by adding a front row and a back row (by simply making the first 3 characters on the left be front, and the 3/rest character names over on the right of those then be the back row)

- then came addition of "ranges" for weapons for both players and enemies, and thus enemies became "groups" and a group would be a row, an enemy row, and behind that group would be perhaps another enemy "row", and THAT row would feature archers who could shoot your characters and damage your front row without allowing you to hit them back

- and to finish this because i'm tired of typing and this subject can be easily researched with google: IMHO the last piece of the recipe was then the magic systems introduced by the two O.G. blobbers, and of course i speak of Wizardry. wizardry 1 shipped with 30+ spells, and to this day 30+ years later that is STILL a very high amount of spells for an RPG! and, obviously, ALL spells were tightly integrated into every facet of the combat, the navigation, the exploration, the looting/acquiring of treasure, the advancement of characters, the management of the player's party (his Blob!), and the spell system even dovetailed almost stupidly well into the other layers:

...the mapping/clearing of the areas/dungeons suddenly increased in depth, complexity and enjoyment due to the unbelievably robust spell system Wizardry introduced; to put it bluntly, ltierally each and every single emergent slice of gameplay ended up feeding off the spell systems or alternatively FEEDING the spell system in a perfect symbiotic relationship.

TL;DR = a blobber is an RPG where its' 1st-person, turn-based, tile-based movement, features at very least 3 and more characters i.e. a PARTY, has some sort of spell system and/or a system that functions like spells to therefore enable the player and give him/her tools to accomplish main goal of a true blobber which would be to create their party (their Blob!), manage them into godhood and powerfully elite levels/classes/gear/etc, and brave the dark depths of the dungeons or whatever areas need to be explored and conquered and that will only be accomlished by killing the enemies -- SOLVING PUZZLES - SOLVING PUZZLES THAT ARE NOT LOGIC-BASED BUT SPATIAL i.e. "how the fuck do i get from this part of the map to THAT part of the map" --

-- and everything is done in the fastest possible way, few animations, no characters obvciously (graphically i mean) because, duh, it's a formless blob, everything is optimized to have as much depth as possible while at the same time making sure that everything is also as stripped down to its bare essentials as humanly possible.

the minimalistic purity of a good blobber is something that can only be understood of its profundity by personally playing them. it is the purest form of an RPG.

it is, truly, the literal essence of an RPG distilled to the core and roaring with unbridled vitality hidden under a ton of abstraction.

oh, and also blobbers need to be FAST. seriously, blobber fans like blobbers for a lot of reasons, but a top reason is that blobbers are fast as fuck in everything: combat, exploration, towns, whatever the fuck. due to their bare bones approach (the "graphics" omg omg) and lack of animations (usually!) over the years turns out blobber fans got addicted to FAST resolution of gameplay.

:)
 
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aweigh

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btw, that post is literally only about 1/3 of the post i had originally begun writing, and the fact i didn't even post it tells volumes about how rambling it was, heh. if the OP is serious about learning about blobbers and i know he's not, duh, but if he were... i hate to do it but ust go read the CRPG addict's website.

and if you want to try out blobbers:

- wiz 1 (duh)

- might and magic 1, 2, 3 and 10

- bard's tale 1-4, or if you want a bard's tale equivalent but made in year 2000's, download DEVIL's WHISKEY. has some ex-BT devs. i've played it and it's amazing. also super hard and super-autistic.

- (if you want a wizardry that has actual graphics) then wizardry 6 instead

- if you're not a fucking moron that won't play a japanese game, then Elminage: Gothic for PC is the perfect, most modern most graphics-pretty Wiz-style turn-based blobber made in last 100 years. So that's one more option for you, OP.

after playing that stuff, you'll be ready to delve into the other side of blobbers:

REAL TIME ONES.

and boy oh boy... is this a thorny topic.
 
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aweigh

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btw, betrayal at krondor et al those games you guys mention, while definitely good/great RPGS are absolutely not "blobbers". but this, (and only this point!), is my own opinion.

for example BaK's main deisgn emphasis is on exploration of a massive "world", and there'are almost no dungeons to speak of, plus the party cannot be created from scratch by the player and instead it is the type of RPG that features elements taken from Adventure Games of yester year and instead of giving the player limitless tactical depth instead they hamstring the player and con the player out of a great RPG experience by instead forcing them to play through a hybrid adventure game / light novel / pseudo-RPG / pseudo-Blobber that has shit like voice acting for its characters, who are all of course "novel-worthy" and shit, and there is a very involved plot always...

...and blah blah blah. you notie how none of that has anything to do with actual gameplay? by default due to pre-made NPCs forced on player that means it will have very low amount of depth to both character advancement systems as well as borking any semblance of true party management and true resource manaagement since, when the game's biomap is desgined by the devs to always make sure the player goes to C after doing B but only if they did A and if they did A and went to B and just finished C then NOW and only NOW can the player proceed to D and then, of course, finish the game at E.

bleh. sure, it's 100% doable to make fanastic RPGs that are adventure game hybrids, like for example:

- baldur's gate 1 and 2
- fallout 1 and 2 (and also F: NV, come at me)
- arcanum
- INSERT EVERY OTHER RPG HERE

i am not treying to villify story telling, far from it, I am intentionally OVER-emphasizing the negative aspects that come with Adventure Game-hybrid RPGs, which is basically ALL rpgs nowadays, when the game puts "story" (ugh) way before GAME PLAY.

The adventure game hybrids that have stood the test of time, like say, FO1 and 2, is because the devs ALSO put in massive work into making them equally as robust and complex and all that in the GAME PLAY departments as they did in in the dialogs and the fed-ex quests and the exploding dogmeats.
 
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aweigh

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Lilura

oh lilu, if you only knew: i am currently playing thru 40gb torrent of PC 98 games. sorry, so sorry, you lose, i win! If you want to out-hard-core the PC 98 then... you'lll have to forget Amiga and go straight to PLATO.

i sometimes have had waking dreams or lucid dreams where i time travel back to mid 70s because my biggest wish in life is to have been there when wizardry and ultima first "shipped" so i could play them in their actual year of release on an apple II and have to then be stuck in that time period, never able to time travel back, and realize how happy i am making maps for the games and uploading to the burgeoning BBS's and making a name for myself there, in the time before interent was real... sigh.
 
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theSavant

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Only a full blobber is a real blobber.


Which means:
- multiple party members
- exploration as a blobb from 1st person view
- combat as a blobb from 1st person view
 
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theSavant

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I could also imagine Adventure Blobbers oder Shooter Blobbers. I remember a game called "Project Eden", in which you had to control 4 characters with different abilities. It was a bit annoying to frequently change between the characters. This could have been implemented as a blobber.
 

Sigourn

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I am thinking about the "blobber" genre.

1. Are Betrayal at Krondor, Realms of Arkania and Gold Box games considered "blobbers"? They all have tactics-style combat.
2. Are there "blobbers" that are not RPGs?
3. Do all "blobbers" feature more than one character in the party?

My definition of blobber:

- First person combat.
- You can't see the individual party members on the screen (duh).
- They all must feature more than one character in the party.

If it doesn't fulfill those requirements, it can't be a blobber, because:

- There's no blob if you can see the individual party members.
- There's no blob if there's only person. There's only... one person.
 

SausageInYourFace

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Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit. Pathfinder: Wrath
Can anyone recommend me a good first blobber? It's like the only genre of game I've never played

Might & Magic III Isles of Terra is a very comfy starting point. Beautiful colorful graphics, old school charme, difficulty kicks you in the butt at first, later your party are gods among men, beautiful soundtrack, very intuitive gameplay, ease of use features like automap but dungeon crawling is still lots of fun, many secrets to be found, stat boosts into oblivion, rewarding exploration - I could go on. Just don't expect deep tactical combat. However, its fun and fast paced.
 

V_K

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Can anyone recommend me a good first blobber? It's like the only genre of game I've never played
For real-time, Grimrock 2 - nice graphics, very atmospheric, decent level design and tight systems.
For turn-based, Wizards&Warriors, if you can get it to run on a modern system. Level design is just as good, if not better, as later Wizardries (designed by the very same DW Bradley), but systems are more straightforward and forgiving, and battles are much faster.
Alternatively, you could try 7 Mages, a rare modern TB blobber - it's a bit simplistic on the character development and combat side, but has some cool mechanics like party splitting (although the purists in this thread may not consider it a blobber because of that) or music-based magic, and is also very pretty. Good puzzles too.
 

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