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Sykar

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Turn right after Alpha Centauri
understand how shitty Bioware and Bethesda games are? How come the rest of the world are all in agreement that their games are awesome?


Could it be that we're the real idiots, not them?

:o
Easy. Because most of their games are not shitty, it's just that the Codex developed a mentally retarded way of looking at games. Actually their only really shitty games are:
Dragon Age Inquisition
Mass Effect 3 and Andromeda
Fallout 4

Dragon Age 2 and Fallout 3 are meh.

The others are pretty good games if you are into those types of games.

:nocountryforshitposters:
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
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Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
understand how shitty Bioware and Bethesda games are? How come the rest of the world are all in agreement that their games are awesome?


Could it be that we're the real idiots, not them?

:o
Easy. Because most of their games are not shitty, it's just that the Codex developed a mentally retarded way of looking at games. Actually their only really shitty games are:
Dragon Age Inquisition
Mass Effect 3 and Andromeda
Fallout 4

Dragon Age 2 and Fallout 3 are meh.

The others are pretty good games if you are into those types of games.

:nocountryforshitposters:
Yah, I know DA2 is really stretching it, but I thought the story was decent (not a chosen one type), so that's why the game overall reaches at least a meh level. And Fallout 3 is really just a meh game, not perticularly bad or good.
 

Sykar

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Turn right after Alpha Centauri
No just no, FO 3 utterly fails as an RPG with utterly retarded story and is a terrible shooter to boot.
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=27085

For fucks sake, FO 2 was already critizised for going overboard with cultural references. What did Bethderp do besides the aforementioned crap? Turn the entire fucking game into a cultural reference.

DA 2, I do not even know where to start. Watch the videos by smudboy on YT to get an idea how terrible it actually is.
 

decaf

Learned
Joined
Apr 21, 2017
Messages
351
Too bad such epic necromancy isn't used in games. It's interesting how a thread from 6 years ago is still relevant today. Why the Masses (tm) can't understand why something is shit is a thing I ponder a lot. Saying "they are just stupid and uncultured" is true to an extent, but it reduces the complexity of the problem. It doesn't answer the question of why they like this particular thing instead of another, especially now that Bioware churns out focus group tested abortions which should be regarded well but aren't. Is it only technical issues or they see problems with gameplay or the artistic aspects? It's a mystery.

Or maybe we are deviant minds who just can't fathom the brilliance. I actually had a discussion regarding this with a colleague of mine, in the current climate of "serious" art can we even recognize what is good and what isn't? Are we too busy recycling the past to recognize current greatness? Modern AAA games obviously aren't "the greatness", but I meant in general.

It is the difference between priorities. Do you obsess over video games or is it a passing hobby? The level of care, equals expenditure of time, and this is significant.

Let's define a Grognard as a person with an obsession with video games.
Obsession over video games exposes the Grognard to older media, leading to knowledge a larger catalogue of what's good.
Acquiring knowledge means spending time and effort, a limited resource. Being obsessed, a Grognard deems this trade acceptable.
Without obsession means less knowledge, therefore a non-grognard will praise mediocre shit, because without a justification to find past games, they simply judge from whatever comes along.

Let's define a Normie as a person who doesn't have the same level of obsession on video games. They have limited time and other shit to do.

However! For the past decade, we have a cultural zeitgeist that makes some aspects of nerdiness as cool.
Being a nerd now makes you popular.

Obviously, some Normies will become Poseurs. It requires little effort for some gain in social standing.
Poseurs take the shallow, easily copied, socially popular (with other Normies) traits of the Grognard and use it to enhance their social life.

Poseur's opinions become popular amongst other Normies. They appear to be Normie-Grognard hybrids, all the nerdiness without having to listen to a nerd.
But being Poseurs and ignorant, Poseurs can only form retard opinions. Normies don't care, because they too, are ignorant.

Normies take Poseur's retard opinions into their own, while accepting Poseurs as a source of knowledge, creating a Climate of Ignorance.
This clashes with the Grognards, who know better. Poseurs also claim to know better, and but have support of the Normies, so the Climate of Ignorance self-perpetuates.

TL;DR Vidya is passing fad for normies and they'll fuck off to ruin other things like they did surfing.
 
Last edited:

Iznaliu

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 28, 2016
Messages
3,686
Too bad such epic necromancy isn't used in games. It's interesting how a thread from 6 years ago is still relevant today. Why the Masses (tm) can't understand why something is shit is a thing I ponder a lot. Saying "they are just stupid and uncultured" is true to an extent, but it reduces the complexity of the problem. It doesn't answer the question of why they like this particular thing instead of another, especially now that Bioware churns out focus group tested abortions which should be regarded well but aren't. Is it only technical issues or they see problems with gameplay or the artistic aspects? It's a mystery.

Or maybe we are deviant minds who just can't fathom the brilliance. I actually had a discussion regarding this with a colleague of mine, in the current climate of "serious" art can we even recognize what is good and what isn't? Are we too busy recycling the past to recognize current greatness? Modern AAA games obviously aren't "the greatness", but I meant in general.

It is the difference between priorities. Do you obsess over video games or is it a passing hobby? The level of care, equals expenditure of time, and this is significant.

Let's define a Grognard as a person with an obsession with video games.
Obsession over video games exposes the Grognard to older media, leading to knowledge a larger catalogue of what's good.
Acquiring knowledge means spending time and effort, a limited resource. Being obsessed, a Grognard deems this trade acceptable.
Without obsession means less knowledge, therefore a non-grognard will praise mediocre shit, because without a justification to find past games, they simply judge from whatever comes along.

Let's define a Normie as a person who doesn't have the same level of obsession on video games. They have limited time and other shit to do.

However! For the past decade, we have a cultural zeitgeist that makes some aspects of nerdiness as cool.
Being a nerd now makes you popular.

Obviously, some Normies will become Poseurs. It requires little effort for some gain in social standing.
Poseurs take the shallow, easily copied, socially popular (with other Normies) traits of the Grognard and use it to enhance their social life.

Poseur's opinions become popular amongst other Normies. They appear to be Normie-Grognard hybrids, all the nerdiness without having to listen to a nerd.
But being Poseurs and ignorant, Poseurs can only form retard opinions. Normies don't care, because they too, are ignorant.

Normies take Poseur's retard opinions into their own, while accepting Poseurs as a source of knowledge, creating a Climate of Ignorance.
This clashes with the Grognards, who know better. Poseurs also claim to know better, and but have support of the Normies, so the Climate of Ignorance self-perpetuates.

TL;DR Vidya is passing fad for normies and they'll fuck off to ruin other things like they did surfing.

The world doesn't fit into neat little boxes like that.
 

decaf

Learned
Joined
Apr 21, 2017
Messages
351
The world doesn't fit into neat little boxes like that.

Which part do you disagree with?

"Grognard"? It's just a term, could be changed to Subject A, Subject B, and Subject C. Same difference.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
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Messages
5,623
Lady Gaga sells millions of records. Do you ever ask yourself if she's one of the greatest singers of all time? American Idol is an extremely popular television show. Do you ever ask yourself if it's one of the greatest contributions to entertainment media? The first Transformers movie sold a bajillion tickets. Do you ever ask yourself if it rivals Citizen Kane?

I feel the need to quote this post to clarify something: Citizen Kane was a marvel of its time. A true marvel. Of its time. Taken out of context, the film just isn't mindblowing. It certainly didn't blew my mind in the way Whiplash did, and I'm pretty sure Whiplash isn't a "mindblowing" film by any stretch of the imagination.

This I feel is the same error people repeat in basically every type of art that ages. Films age. Videogames age. Wizardry is fine and dandy, but the SNES version is an improvement in basically every way and form. It is precisely the SNES version that shows Wizardry was such a good game back in the day that it is still enjoyable today, over 30 years after its release, and playing a version that is almost 20 years old.

With that out of the way: who is to say what the Citizen Kane of videogames is? People are more than free to think BioWare videogames or Bethesda videogames are. I haven't played ME, but I have played Skyrim, and it's by far the game I enjoyed the most playing. It is not a masterpiece, but at the end of the day, I'd rather stick with the dumbed down Skyrim than the "masterpiece" Fallout or Planescape: Torment. Skyrim is just the more enjoyable game, and I will kill myself before saying "yeah, I'd rather watch Battleship Potemkin over Transformers, such a masterpiece of cinema!". Because I actually have to watch Potemkin for an exam due in a couple of weeks, and it would certainly be much easier for me to just turn on Transformers and enjoy.

Videogames, just like films, are a form of entertainment. If you don't prioritize fun and enjoyment, you are a fucking idiot. Masterpieces are works that show us just how far we can go at any given time, but like in any medium that ages, when taken out of context, they just aren't anywhere near as powerful. I wouldn't call Fallout a masterpiece if it was made today.
 

CreamyBlood

Arcane
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
1,392
Lady Gaga sells millions of records. Do you ever ask yourself if she's one of the greatest singers of all time? American Idol is an extremely popular television show. Do you ever ask yourself if it's one of the greatest contributions to entertainment media? The first Transformers movie sold a bajillion tickets. Do you ever ask yourself if it rivals Citizen Kane?

I feel the need to quote this post to clarify something: Citizen Kane was a marvel of its time. A true marvel. Of its time. Taken out of context, the film just isn't mindblowing. It certainly didn't blew my mind in the way Whiplash did, and I'm pretty sure Whiplash isn't a "mindblowing" film by any stretch of the imagination.

This I feel is the same error people repeat in basically every type of art that ages. Films age. Videogames age. Wizardry is fine and dandy, but the SNES version is an improvement in basically every way and form. It is precisely the SNES version that shows Wizardry was such a good game back in the day that it is still enjoyable today, over 30 years after its release, and playing a version that is almost 20 years old.

With that out of the way: who is to say what the Citizen Kane of videogames is? People are more than free to think BioWare videogames or Bethesda videogames are. I haven't played ME, but I have played Skyrim, and it's by far the game I enjoyed the most playing. It is not a masterpiece, but at the end of the day, I'd rather stick with the dumbed down Skyrim than the "masterpiece" Fallout or Planescape: Torment. Skyrim is just the more enjoyable game, and I will kill myself before saying "yeah, I'd rather watch Battleship Potemkin over Transformers, such a masterpiece of cinema!". Because I actually have to watch Potemkin for an exam due in a couple of weeks, and it would certainly be much easier for me to just turn on Transformers and enjoy.

Videogames, just like films, are a form of entertainment. If you don't prioritize fun and enjoyment, you are a fucking idiot. Masterpieces are works that show us just how far we can go at any given time, but like in any medium that ages, when taken out of context, they just aren't anywhere near as powerful. I wouldn't call Fallout a masterpiece if it was made today.

WOW. Maybe the things they say about Millennial's are actually true.
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
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Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Lady Gaga sells millions of records. Do you ever ask yourself if she's one of the greatest singers of all time? American Idol is an extremely popular television show. Do you ever ask yourself if it's one of the greatest contributions to entertainment media? The first Transformers movie sold a bajillion tickets. Do you ever ask yourself if it rivals Citizen Kane?

I feel the need to quote this post to clarify something: Citizen Kane was a marvel of its time. A true marvel. Of its time. Taken out of context, the film just isn't mindblowing. It certainly didn't blew my mind in the way Whiplash did, and I'm pretty sure Whiplash isn't a "mindblowing" film by any stretch of the imagination.

This I feel is the same error people repeat in basically every type of art that ages. Films age. Videogames age. Wizardry is fine and dandy, but the SNES version is an improvement in basically every way and form. It is precisely the SNES version that shows Wizardry was such a good game back in the day that it is still enjoyable today, over 30 years after its release, and playing a version that is almost 20 years old.

With that out of the way: who is to say what the Citizen Kane of videogames is? People are more than free to think BioWare videogames or Bethesda videogames are. I haven't played ME, but I have played Skyrim, and it's by far the game I enjoyed the most playing. It is not a masterpiece, but at the end of the day, I'd rather stick with the dumbed down Skyrim than the "masterpiece" Fallout or Planescape: Torment. Skyrim is just the more enjoyable game, and I will kill myself before saying "yeah, I'd rather watch Battleship Potemkin over Transformers, such a masterpiece of cinema!". Because I actually have to watch Potemkin for an exam due in a couple of weeks, and it would certainly be much easier for me to just turn on Transformers and enjoy.

Videogames, just like films, are a form of entertainment. If you don't prioritize fun and enjoyment, you are a fucking idiot. Masterpieces are works that show us just how far we can go at any given time, but like in any medium that ages, when taken out of context, they just aren't anywhere near as powerful. I wouldn't call Fallout a masterpiece if it was made today.
While I agree that having fun is more important than a game being labeled a materpiece or not, but enjoying Skyrim more than Fallout or PST? Not cool man!
 
Self-Ejected

Davaris

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Idiocracy
Lady Gaga sells millions of records. Do you ever ask yourself if she's one of the greatest singers of all time? American Idol is an extremely popular television show. Do you ever ask yourself if it's one of the greatest contributions to entertainment media? The first Transformers movie sold a bajillion tickets. Do you ever ask yourself if it rivals Citizen Kane?

I feel the need to quote this post to clarify something: Citizen Kane was a marvel of its time. A true marvel. Of its time. Taken out of context, the film just isn't mindblowing. It certainly didn't blew my mind in the way Whiplash did, and I'm pretty sure Whiplash isn't a "mindblowing" film by any stretch of the imagination.

This I feel is the same error people repeat in basically every type of art that ages. Films age. Videogames age. Wizardry is fine and dandy, but the SNES version is an improvement in basically every way and form. It is precisely the SNES version that shows Wizardry was such a good game back in the day that it is still enjoyable today, over 30 years after its release, and playing a version that is almost 20 years old.

With that out of the way: who is to say what the Citizen Kane of videogames is? People are more than free to think BioWare videogames or Bethesda videogames are. I haven't played ME, but I have played Skyrim, and it's by far the game I enjoyed the most playing. It is not a masterpiece, but at the end of the day, I'd rather stick with the dumbed down Skyrim than the "masterpiece" Fallout or Planescape: Torment. Skyrim is just the more enjoyable game, and I will kill myself before saying "yeah, I'd rather watch Battleship Potemkin over Transformers, such a masterpiece of cinema!". Because I actually have to watch Potemkin for an exam due in a couple of weeks, and it would certainly be much easier for me to just turn on Transformers and enjoy.

Videogames, just like films, are a form of entertainment. If you don't prioritize fun and enjoyment, you are a fucking idiot. Masterpieces are works that show us just how far we can go at any given time, but like in any medium that ages, when taken out of context, they just aren't anywhere near as powerful. I wouldn't call Fallout a masterpiece if it was made today.
While I agree that having fun is more important than a game being labeled a materpiece or not, but enjoying Skyrim more than Fallout or PST? Not cool man!


If Fallout or PST had the same graphics as AAA games today, with triangles instead of confusing numbers, he'd call it a masterpiece.
 

decaf

Learned
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Messages
351
I do prioritize fun and enjoyment.
That's why I have an intense hatred for Fallout 3.
The PC experience sucks many dicks.
 

Nuclear Explosion

Guest
I feel the need to quote this post to clarify something: Citizen Kane was a marvel of its time. A true marvel. Of its time. Taken out of context, the film just isn't mindblowing. It certainly didn't blew my mind in the way Whiplash did, and I'm pretty sure Whiplash isn't a "mindblowing" film by any stretch of the imagination.
Everything Citizen Kane is famous for (overlapping dialogue, deep focus, nonlinear story-line, camera movement, etc) had been done in the past. In general, many people seem to think that before Citizen Kane sound films were little more than filmed theater, but that is incorrect. Either way, Citizen Kane is still a great film, even if it is not Welles' greatest film. Incidentally, Citizen Kane was made during one of the best times for American films ever; there were many highly skilled directors working in the American studio system at that time.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
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Messages
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Everything Citizen Kane is famous for (overlapping dialogue, deep focus, nonlinear story-line, camera movement, etc) had been done in the past. In general, many people seem to think that before Citizen Kane sound films were little more than filmed theater, but that is incorrect. Either way, Citizen Kane is still a great film, even if it is not Welles' greatest film. Incidentally, Citizen Kane was made during one of the best times for American films ever; there were many highly skilled directors working in the American studio system at that time.

It's true. Sound film had already been perfectioned before Citizen Kane, not to mention the film was released two years after Gone with the Wind (1939). In that same vein, I was much more impressed by Gone with the Wind than by Citizen Kane.

No offense to anyone that thinks differently, but to me Citizen Kane just simply isn't interesting. I don't find the story interesting, I don't find the technical aspects interesting, it's just not my type of movie. Transformers isn't either, but given the choice, I would much rather watch Transformers, just like I would much rather play Skyrim for the rest of my life than replay the same fucking 25 hours of Fallout. Skyrim won't ever be remembered as "that one game that pushed the boundaries of the medium", but who gives a shit if the game is fun.

I've come to realize that if the game isn't fun, I couldn't care less how good of an RPG it is. Congratulations Gold Box games, it's back to New Vegas for me, one of the few games that is actually a good RPG and a fun game simulatenously.

Cue the "butthurt", "decline", "retadred" and "shit" tags from butthurt Codexers. "Butthurt" in particular is such an ironic one in this particular case.
 

Kev Inkline

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A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Lady Gaga is very professionally produced, the songs have been thought through to maximize catchy hit potential, and she's a superior singer to say, Brittney Spears. Is it my kind of music? Not at all. But you have to aknowledge its technical merits.

Gaga is Pillars of Eternity of pop music.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
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Messages
5,623
the same fucking 25 hours of Fallout.

You're doing it wrong. It won't last you a lifetime, but juss' sayin'

I will probably never understand the supposed "replayability" of the traditional C&C RPGs, especially so because it's usually just a small variation in how quests and builds work. To me, an interesting, fun game (both subjective adjectives) is much more important than a game with "tons of replayability". I don't consider "multiple choices" to mean replayability. To me, "replayability" means "a game I want to play over and over again".

Final Fantasy VII and IX are much more replayable than Fallout, in my opinion.
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
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the same fucking 25 hours of Fallout.

You're doing it wrong. It won't last you a lifetime, but juss' sayin'

I will probably never understand the supposed "replayability" of the traditional C&C RPGs, especially so because it's usually just a small variation in how quests and builds work. To me, an interesting, fun game (both subjective adjectives) is much more important than a game with "tons of replayability". I don't consider "multiple choices" to mean replayability. To me, "replayability" means "a game I want to play over and over again".

Final Fantasy VII and IX are much more replayable than Fallout, in my opinion.
Your comment might sound retarted, but there are huge truths there. C&C is overrated in RPGs. It is not bad if it is here, but it hardly makes a good game. Great, you can replay the game 7 times and still find new things in the game. But I don't have time to replay a 50 hour long RPG 7 times, sorry. So that C&C doesn't give me any extra point.

C&C can make a good game slightly better, but if the game is not that fun to begin with, then all the C&C in the world can't help it.

On the other hand, a linear game can be so enjoyable that you want to play it from time to time, because you love the experience it gives you.
 

Mexi

Dumbfuck!
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You're not idiots, you're just cucks, which is worse.
 

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