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Thief Gold or Thief 2

Which one?

  • Thief Gold/The Dark Project

    Votes: 73 71.6%
  • Thief 2: The Metal Age

    Votes: 51 50.0%
  • NuThief (KC)

    Votes: 6 5.9%

  • Total voters
    102
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Messages
3,059
Location
Brazil
Divinity: Original Sin
the falling animation is the one where garrett floats around? you can reload, but you can fall from a smal step or stair and hit the ground properly...
 

Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
7,952
the falling animation is the one where garrett floats around? you can reload, but you can fall from a smal step or stair and hit the ground properly...

Yeah been doing those, it's just annoying how much it happens when you're aiming for a ledge and keep bungling it. That mechanic is a massive step down from the previous games, where you at least were able to know when a ledge could be mounted if you timed it right, like in TG with the lost city one near the end.

Back to T3: Found a place in the Forbidden Library where Gamall hangs out. Amazing how fucking freaky a childs model in a game can be that doesn't attack you at all. Very good design foreshadowing events later in the game with her.

Another thing I'm not happy with is how easy it is to outrun enemies. I mean that not simply because it's easy, but also because there's a lot more opportunities for enemies to fight one another in T3 than the previous two and it's a downright fucking chore to luring them into bumping into each other. The worst was trying to get the Kushok and Pagans/Rats to fight. I was throwing vases around like made and they'd only go like 15 feet before resetting due to the lack of sound the vases would make.

Other issue too with infight is the lack of instigation. I had a guard bow a Hammerite in the streets and the Hammerite was asking me why I attacked him.

Another thing is how shitty Garrett is fighting. I don't mind him getting taken down in a couple hits in the previous games, but he's practically helpless meleeing where you just spam attack and hope the enemy dies before you do. In the previous games combat system was sophisticated enough that you could go toe to toe with guard, and if good enough, could handle two if you kept placement in mind.

The last bits to add is how the open world system fucks with gear and loot. You always walk around with max items because not only it loot so abundant but so are ground spawn items. It results in flat, bland scenarios item-wise leads loot to be less valued compared to the other games where you actively looked for all the loot to get as much for the next mission, especially to load up on water and moss arrows and the latter is now worth a hell of a lot less due to crouching being so silent and the lack of metal around maps, even in TDP.

The last bit is the worst: I stumbled upon some Thief 4 lore and found out what they did to the premise. My God, I fucking hate soft reboots. They try to have their cake and eat it too, they get rid of the Hammerites and Pagans and all that, but keep little nods to the old games and the Garrett name in a world that is but a pale figure the old one. And this isn't because those things ate simply ignored, the Hammers and Pagans, like so much neat stuff in Thief, act well as background noise in the din of the city, they could have been around and had nothing to do with story, but no, they had to push the game 400 years into the future and make it clear the new Barons had outlawed the old religions (and due to their stifling science and technological progression.... in a steam punk city that is steam punk entirely thanks to one of those fucking outlawed religions!).
 

Dev_Anj

Learned
Joined
Jan 14, 2015
Messages
468
Location
Auldale, near the great river
The last bits to add is how the open world system fucks with gear and loot. You always walk around with max items because not only it loot so abundant but so are ground spawn items. It results in flat, bland scenarios item-wise leads loot to be less valued compared to the other games where you actively looked for all the loot to get as much for the next mission, especially to load up on water and moss arrows
Yeah, Thief 3's system showed me that as strange as the first two Thief games were by taking all your money away after being in the shop screen and resetting your default inventory for most missions, those were necessary to maintain balance in items. Else, players could just keep hoarding water/moss arrows and such and build a ridiculous stash of those by the late game levels, which would considerably affect their difficulty.
 

Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
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27,091
Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
The last bits to add is how the open world system fucks with gear and loot. You always walk around with max items because not only it loot so abundant but so are ground spawn items. It results in flat, bland scenarios item-wise leads loot to be less valued compared to the other games where you actively looked for all the loot to get as much for the next mission, especially to load up on water and moss arrows and the latter is now worth a hell of a lot less due to crouching being so silent and the lack of metal around maps, even in TDP.

Thiaf does this as well. The plot-vital missions are tied together by this large "City" map like Thief 3, and there are plenty of looting opportunities about, but except for there being a higher ceiling to reach the point of "I've bought everything and maxed out my gear!" and a slightly lower abundance of gear, it has the same problem as Thief 3.
 
Last edited:

Kahr

Guest
If I think about it: Is there any other series where the story of the game influences the gameplay so naturally?
You know with the electric light, metal undergrounds and SS 2 cameras everywhere?
Or later with the unblackjackable guards. It's just to annoy you and it's fun.
Everytime i see myself thinking: "Not metal again." I see that the game works.
No wonder the first part was called the Dark Project (yeah i know story and so on). But it was really much darker than T2.
 

Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
7,952
Anything thing hit me playing T3 - How skeptical and suspicious Garrett is of the Keepers and their prophecies.

At first you'd think that's typical Garrett, but the end of the Metal Age shows him stunned and his last lines show he's far more open to their kind of talk than he ever was. This shows the path of character growth he takes from the Beginning of TG to the end of T2 where he starts a small minded, greedy and self-absorbed jerk, goes to a cynical, but more mindful and slightly humble guy that is markedly different from how he was in the first game, to someone that is starting to believe in Keeper talk in a way he never did ever since he was caught pick pocketing one.

He is more receptive to hearing them out and undergoes their missions at the start of T3, but it's the same Garrett as in T2 and doesn't show much change like that seen between the two other games. I'm not expecting him to have a change of heart or anything, he should be throwing barbs at them, but he shouldn't be looking of their ways as BS anymore after realizing the two previous games events were foretold and are the entire reason they let him go so easily

Even the opposite reaction could be expected, his deepening of his dislike of their ways given that they now hint that his life is greater than it is when he just wants to be left alone to do what he wants, such a threat to his independent nature would really rile him up, or he may really resent being a force for good when he doesn't believe it himself, but you don't see anything of that in T3.
 

octavius

Arcane
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Joined
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Bjørgvin
I don't want to start a new thread just for this, and I can't find a dedicated Thief thread, so I'm posting it here.
Apparantly the Alarus Extension of the Bonehoard is supposed to be very hard to get into, and some saying it requires a Rope Arrow.
But I managed it in a few tries (not knowing is was supposed to be inaccesible), since I had to know what was behind that small opening in the wall.

It's not very hard; just three mantlings as shown in this screenshot:
q0uRofu.jpg


But there's nothing on the other side, except a tall, narrow room, which you can't (?) escape if dropping into it:
mw1dRcX.png


Since it was so easy, I assume one of the patches (like NewDark 1.25) GOG uses must have changed things to make it easier. I can't remember this part from my previous playthroughs 10-20 years ago, though.
Anyone know more about this? I tried googling, but most of it was wisecracks about the mythical Bow Upgrade.
 

Zenith

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 26, 2017
Messages
296
I assume one of the patches (like NewDark 1.25) GOG uses must have changed things to make it easier.
Well, one of the notable things about newdark patches is the updated mantling implementation. Later in the city levels you'll occasionally find out-of-bounds glitches with no effort, just like here.
 

Icewater

Artisanal Shitposting™
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Yeah you can also crouch-mantle now in Newdark, which was impossible before. You can break a lot of missions with it.
 

Zenith

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 26, 2017
Messages
296
Hmm...that doesn't sound good. Any way to turn it off?
"Break", as in, do something the author didn't intend. Only rarely will that actually halt your progress, definitely not in the original campaigns.
As for turning it off, cam_ext.cfg, Ctrl+F "mantl". New mantling is usually more comfortable, you'll probably want to turn it back on.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Messages
3,059
Location
Brazil
Divinity: Original Sin
Yeah you can also crouch-mantle now in Newdark, which was impossible before. You can break a lot of missions with it.

Hmm...that doesn't sound good. Any way to turn it off?

The "breaking" part means that you can climb parts that you couldn't and you can see the edges of the level. In some cases. The thing is... you will notice if you're getting to a place you're not supposed to be....
 

waterdeep

Learned
Joined
Feb 28, 2017
Messages
223
Location
Noregr
The original Thief was more of an adventure game in the vein of Tomb Raider, while Thief 2 was a full on stealth game. Both are fantastic though.
 

SharkClub

Prophet
Patron
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
1,508
Strap Yourselves In
You can get the bow upgrade in the Alarus Extension, makes the rest of the game a cakewalk.
 

octavius

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
19,185
Location
Bjørgvin
:necro:

So I started Thief 2, and once I hit the floor above the basement level in the first mission, I was violently assaulted by a bloody annoying constant background drone.
Revoltingly enough it's tied to the main sound effects, so no use turning down the Ambient Sound.
It really detracts from my enjoyment of the game, and I ended up just running around instead of sneaking, figuring if I can't hear the guards over the background noise they can't hear me either, and then reload if spotted.

I don't recall noticing it the first time I played T2, but that was nearly 15 years ago, and then I used speakers instead of head phones.
I checked a runthrough of the first mission on YouTube and I could hear the same sound, so it's not just my system (no hardware acceleration), although I probably have overly sensitive hearing.

Thief 1 had such brilliant sound, so this is a crippling decline IMO. And it doesn't seem to be any way to fix it short of trying to exctract the individual sounds from the sound file.
Hopefully the rest of the levels are no so annoying.
 

Master

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
1,160
There is nothing like that man. Maybe you had a stroke? But still you continued playing:brodex:
 

octavius

Arcane
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Bjørgvin
I'm talking about this.



OK, so I exeggerated a bit how annoying the sound is.
But it's still annoying to my ears, and I don't see the point of having "music" in a first person stealth game, especially if you can't turn it off. Thief 1 didn't. And it breaks immersion, when unlike the Horn of Quintus in T1 there's no in-game source for the sound.
 

Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
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Joined
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27,091
Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
Neither Thief game has a conventional soundtrack, as in musical tracks that play in the background. They do, however, use sound cues at certain locations to play sound effects, which can be short pieces of music or ambient sound.

If that is the case, the sound should stop playing when you leave the area it started in, or only play once to completion.

The way the Thief games have been 'enhanced' through the years, however, may have börked this in some way.
 

noobz0r

Barely Literate
Joined
Apr 29, 2019
Messages
3
Neither Thief game has a conventional soundtrack, as in musical tracks that play in the background.

Fun fact: the German version of Shoalsgate had exactly that, and it sucked. Too loud to hear footsteps or anything important for gameplay and there was no way to turn it down AFAIR



That's an edit of the song Accingite vos by Subway to Sally. The original song was used during the credits, fits nicely IMO

I also remember an altar somewhere having a different ambient effect.
 

octavius

Arcane
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Joined
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Bjørgvin
The second mission suffers from the same problem with the "musical" track ruining the immersion, so I'll call it quits since I have already completed Thief 2 before, and there's plenty of fan made missions to play.
Apart from Life of the Party and The Bank most of the missions were not very exciting anyway.
 

Icewater

Artisanal Shitposting™
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Project: Eternity Wasteland 2
Fun fact: the German version of Shoalsgate had exactly that, and it sucked. Too loud to hear footsteps or anything important for gameplay and there was no way to turn it down AFAIR


What the motherfuck? That's god-awful.
 

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