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What should be done with Tomb Raider?

Ezekiel

Arcane
Joined
May 3, 2017
Messages
5,498
Let's ignore for a moment what the market wants, what sells. I wanna know what you want.

It might also help if you explained which games you've played, but it's unnecessary.

Before I start my rant, I should probably explain that I've only beaten Tomb Raider (2013), Anniversary, The Guardian of Light, Legend, Underworld and Rise of the Tomb Raider. In that order. Right now I'm making my way through Tomb Raider II. I'm in level 5, Offshore Rig. I find it somewhat obtuse, but I'm having a good time. The next one I wanna play is The Last Revelation, as it's pretty highly regarded by the fans. My favorite is still Anniversary. I loved the sprawling solitary environments and the emphasis on puzzle platforming.

I played the 2013 reboot a few times when it came out and collected everything on the map. I liked it at first, but the more I went back to it, the worse I found it. It's uninspired and, for a game that focuses so much on shooting, too simplistic and easy. One of the things I dislike most about it is Lara herself. I tried to explain it in a review.

I didn't believe this inexperienced girl wearing nothing but a tank top could survive the harsh conditions, completely dominate an island of armed men and make such a change by the end of the game. From the beginning, she is an amazing killer. They only explain her abilities briefly through one of her monologues, in which she says that she did some treks and target practice with Roth, but it's unfortunate that we never see it, considering how powerful she is and the fact that she has never been in a life or death situation or killed anyone. Her moans, cries and anguish continue through more than half the game. Should all the men she kills in the first hour not harden her? She has this meek expression and a voice that breathes exasperatedly through almost every line, making her look even less imposing. I don’t like her outfit. A simple shirt worked in the old games because she was supposed to be cool and sexy, but in this grittier game she looks too bare. Why doesn’t she grab a coat off a dead body if she shivers and sniffs? Everybody else on the island is smart enough to wear a jacket. And you would think she’d take off those three earrings with all that tumbling, falling and skidding about. The game takes itself too seriously, showing Lara as sensitive and inexperienced in the cutscenes and then letting us dominate groups of armed men. All the abuse and her gory, screaming death scenes (one featuring a branch impaling her throat) together come off as trashy and sadistic. I like strong protagonists in my action movies.

I wish they'd stop trying to humanize Lara. They're not doing a good job. In the old games, Lara was sort of an empty shell, a vehicle for the gameplay, and that's how I liked it. I don't wanna know much about her, just as I don't wanna know much about the man with no name or the ronin from Yojimbo. The old games barely had cutscenes because they weren't necessary to progress the minimalist stories. I found the lack of cutscenes and loud music relaxing. Most games now rely far too much cutscenes. I feel relieved to play games with simpler stories, like Inside and Little Nightmares. I don't think the 2013 reboot is solely responsible for the Tomb Raider games now focusing so much on cutscenes and Lara herself. Legend and Underworld had that whole thing about her mother and featured more dialogue and cutscenes. I hope the characters will improve now that writer Rhianna Pratchett has left Crystal Dynamics, even if the publisher will undoubtedly continue to focus on the wrong things.

I played Rise of the Tomb Raider just once and found that a little better than the reboot. It had a few more puzzles and tombs between all the killing. But it was easy as well. One of the main problems, I find, is that the upgrade system unbalances the action. Either you don't upgrade your guns and abilities and the enemies become annoying bullet sponges, or you collect items and XP and overpower yourself. I played it on the highest difficulty and usually died because of the clunky platforming mechanics and trying to figure out what the game wanted me to do, not because of bullets. Rise still takes itself too seriously. I don't think the grim tone lends itself to the adventure genre. And instead of being a contradiction as in the first game, who doesn't even like tombs, this Lara was just bland.

I also believe the new games are too automated. It's a problem with modern jumping and climbing in general. No longer do you have to time your jump or judge distances, the game will steer the character for you. It removes the sense of accomplishment and risk. The bits of platforming that there are have been simplified by the slow axe climbing mechanic. You can't run on walls with a rope anymore, kick away from walls, swim and dive freely underwater, swing on pipes... When you do touch a pipe, Lara will automatically swing from it to the next platform. They also removed the grapple (retractable rope). If I made a mistake and some of these actions do appear in the new games, it's because the puzzle platforming has been severely reduced in favor of mediocre gunfights, largely relegated to a few optional tombs.

What was the point of Lara dual wielding the pistols at the end of Tomb Raider (2013) if they weren't gonna do anything with that in the sequel? Bring back the second pistol! I would also drop the over-the-shoulder camera (left trigger / right mouse button). It doesn't suit a gunslinging acrobat like Lara Croft. It slows down the action too much. I always thought the gunplay of Tomb Raider should have more in common with Max Payne than Uncharted. I want the little dot to appear on the center of the picture at all times whenever I'm holding my guns and for Lara to be able to RUN sideways and backwards as she is aiming. I'm pretty sure the only reason over-the-shoulder views and aiming down iron sights have become so popular in games is because of controllers. In the early years of 3D console games, developers relied on auto-aiming, because they knew how inefficient and uncomfortable it was to drag the stick towards a desired point while using another stick for navigation. I don't care if this hypothetical Tomb Raider has optional auto-aiming and aim assist; as long as I can play it with my keyboard and mouse without any of those crutches and with the over-the-shoulder view gone, I'm happy.

I would remove the upgrade system completely, keeping the gunplay balanced throughout the adventure. I would also remove the bow, as it doesn't really suit Lara.

I would definitely cut down on the action. Tomb Raider should mainly be about exploring big elaborate environments. I want it to be the best puzzle platformer around, with more responsive and versatile controls than in the previous games. I don't want it to be as vague as Tomb Raider II. I've had to look at walkthroughs a few times. It should be somewhat in the realm of fantasy to allow for more complex level design and supernatural enemies. I want a lighter tone, no quick-time events and far fewer cutscenes. Use cutscenes when they're necessary, but also let the environments and gameplay tell the story. I want Lara to enjoy herself and have a sense of humor. I mean, she's there because she loves adventuring. Let her be sassy at times. She should be attractive, obviously. I want her to be tall, lean and somewhat muscular, like an athlete.

I think a game like this could be financially successful if the publisher were realistic about their budget. SquareEnix was unsatsified with the sales of Tomb Raider and Rise of the Tomb Raider, so maybe it's time for them to stop emulating Uncharted, which does it better anyway.
 
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Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
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This.

Swan+dive+lara+croft+s+infamous+swan+dive_ffa5d3_4348147.gif


Or give creative control over Lara Croft to Liam Howlett.

Except that would lead to the same conclusion.

I played Tomb Raider Gold and Tomb Raider II Gold back in the day and it burned me out completely on the franchise. More recently I tried playing Tomb Raider III, and I couldn't even be bothered with finishing the first level.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,394
Do nothing. You don't need to recycle that same IP forever, make something new for God's sake.
 

sser

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,866,684
Make her boobs great again.

Her boobs are still pretty damn big. They're just realistic now so it's okay. :lol:


What they should do is who the fuck cares. That series was immensely overrated from the beginning. Now that it is renewed it plays like every other over-the-shoulder shooter.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,469
1. Force Crystal Dynamics to make more of those budget co-op isometric Tomb Raider games. Considerably better than the shite TR reboot. CD are not allowed to touch the franchise beyond that.
2. Resurrect Core Design from the grave and restore TR to its former glory in the vein of 1, 2 and 3.
3. Square Enix hand over the rights to Core Design and then commit seppuku. It's the honorable thing to do.

If this cannot be achieved, franchise is trashed, better off dead.
 

fabrulana

Augur
Patron
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
120
Location
South Africa
A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Always loved the old Tomb Raider games, good puzzle platformers. It dwindled down a bit for me on the first reboot, i.e. Legend and Underworld, but had still some good puzzle bits - never finished them though.
Latest reboot was ok but not the game as we knew it, finished 2013 but meh. Rise's graphics is unbelievable and some of the best character rendering I have seen in a game.
However turning Tomb Raider into a survival weapon upgrading type of game which focuses on action and teleporting to and from camps seems to have taken the whole puzzle element away.
I suppose it's a good game still but not what one would expect from Tomb Raider, they should have rather started another franchise - the same goes for Guardian of Light etc.
Abusing the use of a character in all manner of games for sales suck.
And then yeah like abnaxus said, her boobs are smaller and less pointy, they are deflated and watered down just like the puzzle elements.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
And then yeah like abnaxus said, her boobs are smaller and less pointy, they are deflated and watered down just like the puzzle elements.
Maybe because these are prequels. Perhaps at some point her real ones get mangled in a trap or a fight and are replaced by the pointy prosthetic ones.
 

Momock

Augur
Joined
Sep 26, 2014
Messages
645
Tomb Raider should be almost exclusively about platforming and adventuring/puzzling in ancient ruins/uncharted landscapes. In my opinion combats should get out completely, but if it has to be present then it should be against fantastic creatures, not animals and humans. My favorite TB was Anniversary, but its platforming could benefit from less railroaded magnetic sections and more skillz from the player, like in the older ones but without the shitty tank controls. The acrobatic moves were great. I also liked what they tried (only tried) to do in Underworld's Mexico (little temples/ruins dispersed in an semi/open area that you have to solve to open acces to a big temple/level). It wasn't very well done but it could have been great, like a bit of Zelda in my TB..

I don't know if the game should go full realistic (scarce ressources, wounds, not too much exaggerated movements palette and jumping distances, fatigue, grounded gunfights) or full over-the-top (wallrun, wall jump and batclawing mid-air, combat with lots of dodging and jumping while shooting with akimbo guns and kicking ennemies in the face). Both are fine for me.
 

DemonKing

Arcane
Joined
Dec 5, 2003
Messages
6,008
I only started with Legend but have played every game since. I liked Legend/Anniversary/Underworld but I loved the reboot. It's a different kind of game but very visceral and graphically it holds up well even four years later. I didn't enjoy Rise so much but probably because it copied the reboot more than iterated on it.
 

shihonage

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Nude mods & make her run backwards while facing the camera. Jumping by backflips. Shooting guns behind her by bending down. Climbing ladders should be entertaining too.

Ok, clearly I should be in charge of this project.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,520
Indian Jones with tits exploring ancient cities, solving puzzles and shooting monsters. What else is there?

Tomb Raider 2013 was just masturbatory waifu material coupled with dumbed down Ubishit "gameplay".
 

TC Jr

Scholar
Joined
Jul 11, 2016
Messages
160
Location
Scotland
I think tr was a product of its time, 1-3 + that Egyptian one just couldn't be released today, the controls/moving Lara would put people off that don't know that's part of the core mechanics (same as tank controls in RE). Precise platforming after all the automated platforming in games would again be too hard for people to get used to, I think.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Go back to the style of the original games, namely TR1, TR2 and TR4 which are the high points of the series.

Anniversary was also good, obviously, because it was a remake and overall pretty faithful to the original design. Underworld was a solid Tomb Raider game too, and it really looked like the series was going in the right direction.

Then they rebooted it and removed everything that made Tomb Raider Tomb Raider.

These games are about exploring ancient ruins, solving clever puzzles and performing difficult jumps.
A TR game is only a good TR game if it has all of that.
 

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