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Fallout NV's factions / characters are retarded?

Athos

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It's pretty obvious that the roman inspiration is mostly superficial, while the Legion itself was born basically as a mongol horde but I must say that your perception of roman history and of the roman army is quite wrong.
 

Iznaliu

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Instead he's a real fucking cultural figure of inspiration, and rightly so.

What the fuck are you on? He is probably unknown to the vast majority of the American public, and half of those who know of him hate what he stands for. He is a tangerine supporter, and in a world where the tangerine is is peeling (the American public) instead of being peeled, he needs to go.
 

Chris Avelltwo

Scholar
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Messages
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I don't know what sort of book on the Roman Empire Caesar picked up,

Some of the books are known and named

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Caesar

In 2246,[2] at the age of twenty, Sallow, fellow Follower Bill Calhoun, and seven others were sent to the east to study tribal dialects. He was instructed to meet with Joshua Graham, a Mormon missionary and tribal specialist from New Canaan. They embarked on a journey to the region known formerly as Arizona, as part of a nine-person expedition.[2] Disgusted by the primitive conditions in which the tribals lived, he looked down upon them as inferior and immoral. During this expedition, they discovered a cache of books about ancient Rome. While he knew some basic facts about ancient history, the books shed new light on some of the details. Reading first The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire and then Julius Caesar's own Commentarii, and personal accounts of his military conquests; those books changed his life and were the starting point of his grand plan.


but the Legion bears no resemblance to the Roman Empire beyond superficial cosmetics. Roman conquests were successful largely due to skilled diplomacy and bribery of rival tribes, the term divide and conquer refers to allying smaller tribes in a region in order to bring down a tribe they perceive as a threat. The Romans were successful largely in integrating the majority of tribes peacefully, using the luxuries afforded by civilisation (wine, white bread, women that dont smell like shit), which tended to buy the loyalties of the larger, more affluent tribes of western europe, while those that resisted tended to be more idealistic and youthful. Ruthless brutality was largely reserved for rebellion and repression, not a means of conquest as it is completely anti-productive to massacre and destroy the fruits of conquest, and alienate those that witness it. Caesars actions seems more in line with the Mongols, who are wellknown for their brutality, however it can be argued the mongols were not attempting to create a unified, stable empire, but were barbarians in the traditional sense.

Are you familiar with the Roman siege of Carthage, Masada, or Numantia? Romans were quite brutal in their conquests. Most defenders died or committed suicide in these sieges, and the few that were left were enslaved. It is even said (though scholars disagree on whether this really happened) that the Romans salted the earth after taking Carthage so that nothing would ever grow there again.

As for the use of diplomacy, they do that too. If you've played the game you should know that the Legion is trying to use diplomacy to get the Great Khans and the Casino families over to their side. If you know a bit about Legion history you know that they've peacefully assimilated other tribes into its ranks, including the Twisted Hairs tribe that Ulysses was a member of.

I'd also say that being literate and having access to these ancient books also helped Edward Sallow in his conquests because aside from the cosmetics, he was also able to put the military tactics of great military geniuses like Caesar, Hannibal, etc. to great use against illiterate tribals who lacked that knowledge. Edward Sallow could have been a man of merely average intelligence, but by having these books and the ability to read them he became a genius by proxy. I think his success against the tribes makes perfect sense. The only time he ever experienced defeat was when he went up against the NCR in the first battle for Hoover Dam, because here was an opponent that was far better organized and literate than the tribals he had faced previously, and his forces lost that battle. Likewise, the Legion appears to be the NCR's first major opposition in their expansion as well. The war between the Legion and NCR is somewhat analogous to the wars between Rome and Carthage.
 

Roguey

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Remember when Fallout 1 had a guy literally LARPing Robin Hood complete with fake British accent and he had a good number of followers lol what a dumb game
 

Metro

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Factions were fine. The main ones were plausible enough. The NCR is a fairly modern corrupt democracy. The Legion got short shrift in the development stages. You can ask MCA or someone else more familiar with the situation but they had planned on adding some Legion held regions in the game (parts of Arizona?). They were pushed as over-the-top bad guys instead of a somewhat viable alternative to a non-sociopath gamer. Even the stuff like the decimations were fine and could have worked if the vast majority of the Legion weren't sadists. Only Caesar and his top brass seemed to be somewhat reasonable. Vulpus whathisface with the wolf hat is fairly calm but still comes off as a huge douche. Instead of shit like 'DO U SEE WE TAUT DEM A LESSON!' you have him say 'shocking and horrible as it may seem, such measures are necessary to maintain order. The swifter iniquity and criminal behavior is dealt with the less corruption.'

The minor factions aren't particularly important and, as stated, acted as comic relief (which there was plenty of in the original Fallout games). The BoS was obviously true to their roots of distrusting outsiders and being antagonistic to the NCR despite the NCR being the 'good guys.'
 

Goral

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No one in his right mind would waste energy constructing a model of a cargo plane when they are at a primitive tribal level, and yet...
You're comparing here intelligence of black men to white men... Niggers would waste energy on shit like this but white men or yellow men would not.

OIFZoVJ.jpg

So yeah, I can imagine negros wasting their energy to broadcast rap or some other retarded things but not white men.
Why? You could say the same about any other dictator throughout history. Caesar maintains power by force, and by making examples out of people. You know the story of the burned man? This was at Caesar's command. It is hard to squash someone who is that ruthless because people are afraid to stand up to them, else they might meet a similar fate.
I was talking about NCR squashing him before things got out of hand. Before he could build an army that could threaten them. Surely they would have noticed a threat like him long before that happened, they have outposts all over the place and they're the largest force there is. This whole thing with Caesar having even remote chance of succeeding is stupid, as is the whole faction.
You don't say that about Supermutants when they rush at you with those big supersledges; or ghoul reavers; or Deathclaws. In real life with a decent gun you would be able to take out any of those things, but guess what... this is a video game.
Yeah, except supermutants and deathclaws might have bulletproof skin for all we know while humans are really fragile. And yes, it's a video game but Caesar's army isn't a parody, it's supposed to be serious, a real threat. Anyway, "it's a video game" is no argument when they can't be consistent within their own world. If it was machetes vs. machetes then sure, but we have an army with sticks and stones on one end and an army with modern weapons and they're somehow equal roughly and our involvement is enough to tip the scales. WTF? Compare it to to Fallout 1 for example, there only BOS had the chance against Master's army and they both were equally armed.
Yes, you're right, Caesar's Legion wouldn't make any sense in the face of that, but this was never what the franchise was supposed to become. You have to think about them in terms of FO2 and Van Buren, then it makes more sense.
It's one of the reasons I've always been saying that F1 > F2. Besides these retarded ideas there was also the "vaults were experiments' thing that started with Fallout 2. That makes no sense at all and is just retarded (even though it makes for some interesting quests in FNV).
That has always been a staple of the franchise ever since the very first game. Are you new to the series?
lol
Comparing BOS with newly introduced FNV factions is utterly stupid, these are entirely different magnitudes. BOS was a proper organization, and they were basically a remnant of an army. But they weren't just patrolling the wastes and training, they were doing some real research. That's why I just don't see how they could be reduced to what they were in Fallout 2 but whole Fallout 2 story is a decline so whatever. Also, assuming you're right (which you're not) and BOS is as stupid as White Glove Society or Caesar's Legion for example, making more stupid organizations still makes it worse, not better.

Remember when Fallout 1 had a guy literally LARPing Robin Hood complete with fake British accent and he had a good number of followers lol what a dumb game
lol
Your Sawyer fanboyism is clouding your judgement, you're comparing a thief who shares a bit of his profit with others with such retarded organizations like WGC or Caesar's Legion :facepalm:
Real Robin Hoods really did exist, e.g. Juraj Janosik and giving some of your profits to the others is good for business because you gain the support of others and they're less likely to snitch on you and might even protect the hand that feeds.
 

laclongquan

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Do you know why America has not squashed many dictators that oppose them?

Distance. Even in the age of jet and carrier ships, distance place restrictions in what you can do what you want to do.

Apply that to Fallout New Vegas and you can see for yourself: even with stronger qualities like industrial power base, railway, guns... NCR can not squash Caesar's Legion at first wave because of distance. Even at the time of Courier they just push the railway to Correctional Facility, ie still long way to go to Hoover Dam. Without railway they can not transport enough supplies to feed and arm their troops already there.
 

Goral

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Do you know why America has not squashed many dictators that oppose them? Distance.
Nope, it's because (((they))) profit from war and chaos and as a bonus they can train their army in real battle and not just some war games. Also, they can't just squash dictators unless they have a pretext, hence they create one from thin air and say they found chemical weapons (as was the case with Iraq and Syria).
 

Roguey

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Your Sawyer fanboyism is clouding your judgement, you're comparing a thief who shares a bit of his profit with others with such retarded organizations like WGC or Caesar's Legion :facepalm:
Real Robin Hoods really did exist, e.g. Juraj Janosik and giving some of your profits to the others is good for business because you gain the support of others and they're less likely to snitch on you and might even protect the hand that feeds.

He doesn't just share profit, he dresses and talks like Robin Hood and named himself Loxley (from Robin of Loxley).
 

Iznaliu

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Messages
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So yeah, I can imagine negros wasting their energy to broadcast rap or some other retarded things but not white men.

Naïveté is a fun experience for all involved. Africa is poor now as the world economic system requires somewhere to obtain raw material for extremely cheap prices.

Comparing a village to a city isn't fair, a more accurate comparison would be achieved by having a look at this Anglo-Saxon village:

_69331653_panorama.jpg
 

Tiny Tim

Novice
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Mar 29, 2017
Messages
30
Honestly, most things are explained in Fallout NV and from your post i gather that you didn't pay attention to some things
- Here you have these Elvis Presley over the top wannabe cool gangstas running a street gang, with the boss perfectly emulating / having the voice of the original by pure chance, yet at the same time no one of them really knows who the fuck they are actually worhipping as a god. He might have had something to do with music, hurrdurr. Really? And do you think that, even if there was a nuclear war, no one in the afterworld would remember a pop icon like Elvis Presley? Did they forget about Mozart, too? Why? That is retarded. And btw, disclaimer, I didn't yet progress further into that story arch because I couldn't stomach it. It might turn out that the gang leader is actually Elvis himself who "lived" (in some cryochamber in Area 51?), yet lost his memory or something. That would at least be an explanation for his voice, though the other point still stands.

The whole thing is a joke obviously, but much more clever than you make it sound.
The king states that they found some old tapes of elvis that have now broken down, so they didn't imitate his voice by chance. They are worshipping him because they found a "school" that worshipped him and took him to be a spiritual figure (which in a way he was, that's the joke). They didn't find a mozart school ( this is Las Vegas, not Prague ) so there's no reason to wonder why they forgot about mozart really.


- The whole Legion is equally retarded, if not more so. Oh, there was a nuclear war, so now let's just utterly LARP as Roman soldiers. And I'm actually Caesar himself, in case you haven't noticed. Really now? I mean, I can totally see a faction forming in a post apoc world / the wasteland that is run on strict authoritarian principles with a souvereign at the top, but WHY would you LARP so hard as to actually qualify as circus clowns? Also, it is unlikely for a faction to become as powerfull and still have spears and butcher knives as some of their primary weapons, or are they just carrying those for LARPing purposes, in case anyone didn't get the point the first time?

In principle, i might agree that ceasar legion is a bit more comical than it should have been - being a main faction. That said, an in-depth explanation is given about their appearence and behaviour that honestly is as intelligent as it could be given the circumstances ( it even involves hegelian dialectics, so yeah). In no way is it "retarded" to me.
- The "Boomers". Holy shit. These guys are just mental. "Our society - and our name btw, in case you don't get the point [again] - is formed on things that go BOOM! We just like it when things go BOOM! Just for its own sake! Because BOOM is COOL!" Holy shit. I could get it if that were spoken in somewhat ironic terms, like "My philosophical outlook on life is summarized by blowing shit up, because that's the only thing that works in the Wasteland" or some such. But these people are totally serious with just loving shit that goes BOOM because explosions are cool. Wtf. Energy weapons? No thank you, we want EXPLOSHUNS!

The protagonist doesn't always have to be given a philosophical or historical explanation for it to exist. The boomers are a warmongering nomadic tribe, that has had no contact with anyone outside their people for generations. It would be completely out of character for them to tell you that, so of course they'll say " we like to blow savages up " or something simiral.


- The BOS are almost the same sort of LARPers like the Legion, only that they are playing "Knights" instead of "Romans". Also, just recently I did the quest where you have to contact their scouts in different places, and all of them acted retarded when I found them. I don't remember exactly what the guy in one case said, but he gave me some sort of philosophical bullshit or poetic sounding one liner when I walked up to him with my companion. Like he was on some sort of trip. Wtf. If I were a scout sitting in an observation post and someone walked up to me I would tell him TO GET THE FUCK DOWN, lest my position be compromised, not deliver some bullshit one liner like I was in a religious cult.

Oh, hello there. Are you familiar with the brotherhood of steel? They are actually very close to a religious cult, just check out their history. Again, because someone doesn't react the way you would, doesn't mean his actions are illogical.

- The whole story premise with the Vegas thing is retarded. So, while most of civilization is still in ruins, people would run the Vegas strip and actually do business there? Where do people get the money from to gamble away? It works in the real world to some degree because most societies have some sort of social security net and hardcore gamblers will rather throw money at the machines than eat. But in a post apoc wasteland people are gambling hardcore and live? Do they even work? This story is shit. It would be believable if it were small scale gambling in every other town's bar / saloon. But VEGAS? No.
Also, in a pretty much lawless society where the one with the most / best weapons is the law, it is most likely that all the casinos would be taken over by one entity before long, if different businesses would even spring up next to each other in the first place, which is unlikely.

There are so many things you've missed here. For starters, vegas wasn't in ruins. Mr House stopped most of the nuclear missiles mid-air. In fact, most of the area around the mojave is fine. You need to get over the idea that the world has ended completely, which i'm guessing you took from fallout 3.

The people get the money through various activities. Most of them come from the NCR which has a working economy, based on agriculture from what i gather. NCR is pretty advanced back west, and many of them aren't struggling to survive but are in fact rich enough to travel to New Vegas and gamble. And yes, they do work! Have you even played fallout 2?

Finally, all casinos are directly controlled by Mr House, who appointed them to the "families" which were nothing more than tribes before he took action. New Vegas is really just Mr House, his securitrons and his "vassals". This is explained many times in game so i'm amazed that you missed it.



This is just of the top of my head. In fact, almost every person you meet acts and talks completely retarded. I got FO 4 recently during a sale, and I have to say that while it is indeed a shooter rather than an RPG, the world and especially the people are MUCH more believable, which was a positive surprise to me after the retardation in Fallout 3 and, as I argue, New Vegas.

There were literally just 5 factions in F4: the gunners, the minutemen, the BOS and the railord ( did i miss any?* ) and i'd argue they were only there for gameplay reasons without even trying to explain themselves.

Who hires the gunners for example? There seems to be an army of them and they are mercs so someone has be paying them and they must have some sort of purpose. Yet they only exist for the player to kill them. Bethesda did the same thing with Talon Company in Fallout 3. You don't mind things like that but you mind the Kings?

*edit: i forgot the triggermen. Now there's a believable faction!
 
Last edited:

Chris Avelltwo

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So yeah, I can imagine negros wasting their energy to broadcast rap or some other retarded things but not white men.

O Rly?

5248437711_33c06123c1.jpeg


jim_jones-620x412.jpg


David_koresh.jpg


The fact that there are so many bizarre cults in the Fallout franchise that believe in retarded nonsense might seem silly, until you consider that retarded cults exist in real life. If anything, in a post-apocalyptic world these cults would be able to gain a lot more traction because there wouldn't be any government around to stop them. And these retarded cults can be made up of and led by people of any race - including white. History is full of examples of this.


I was talking about NCR squashing him before things got out of hand. Before he could build an army that could threaten them. Surely they would have noticed a threat like him long before that happened, they have outposts all over the place and they're the largest force there is. This whole thing with Caesar having even remote chance of succeeding is stupid, as is the whole faction.

The NCR had its hands full throughout its early existence dealing with the Great Khans, other raiders, Mutants, Ghouls, Deathclaws, the Enclave, BoS, etc. The NCR started out as a very small settlement called Shady Sands and grew from there. They weren't always the powerhouse that you see in New Vegas, and by the time they had become that powerhouse, so did the Legion. The Legion started out somewhere in Arizona, so it was never anything the NCR was deeply concerned about or in a position to do anything about until they started butting heads over control of Nevada.

Yeah, except supermutants and deathclaws might have bulletproof skin for all we know while humans are really fragile. And yes, it's a video game but Caesar's army isn't a parody, it's supposed to be serious, a real threat. Anyway, "it's a video game" is no argument when they can't be consistent within their own world. If it was machetes vs. machetes then sure, but we have an army with sticks and stones on one end and an army with modern weapons and they're somehow equal roughly and our involvement is enough to tip the scales. WTF? Compare it to to Fallout 1 for example, there only BOS had the chance against Master's army and they both were equally armed.

As I said, Caesar's Legion was a faction designed for Van Buren, but that never happened, and FNV is based on the Van Buren stuff but shoe-horned into the FO3 engine with some modifications to account for changes Bethesda made to the setting and timeline. It wasn't a perfect fit, but like I told you not everyone in the Legion uses melee. Some use firearms, and they also attempted to acquire Energy weapons from the Van Graffs. And speaking of bulletproof, are you sure that the armor the Legion wears isn't? It is mostly modified football equipment, but they might have put some steel plates in it to stop bullets. Centurion armor is very heavy duty, and almost comparable to power armor in its DR. Even with melee, the Legion aren't as much of a pushover as you might think.

But I do think guns are much more prevalent in FO3, FNV, and FO4 than they should be. Yes, this is America where guns are abundant, but would these guns be so abundant 200 years after a nuclear war? Most guns are made of steel which would rust away after so long - even in a desert. In these modern Fallouts you can find guns and lots of ammunition almost anywhere, even if you search inside trash bins. If you want to talk about stupid, its the overabundance of guns and ammo in the game. That is what makes Caesar's Legion look so stupid, even though it really isn't. Each successive Fallout game is feeling less and less post-apocalyptic, and it is moving further into the future. It feels retarded that 200 years later people would still be living off pre-war junk food and using bottlecaps as currency. Obsidian deserves credit for designing FNV to make a lot more sense than Bethesda's FO3 did. In FO3 you never see anyone grow crops, but in FNV you can see people growing crops from the very moment you step out of Doc Mitchell's house in Goodsprings. Also, while bottlecaps are still used, the NCR and Legion are making their own currency, and that's another nice touch to the game. Obsidian's FNV shows a post-apocalyptic world that is progressing, in contrast to Bethesda's FO3 where it still looks like the nuclear destruction happened just a few months ago, even though 200 years have passed. FNV is a lot less stupid in that sense. It feels more like a realistic and believable world.
 

Chris Avelltwo

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Also the whole "lol Legion suckz cuz they have no guns" meme is stupid. The guys with sticks and machetes are low-level legionnaries, they're the low-level guys sent first as cannon fodder. The real mainstays of the Legion are Prime Legionaries and Veterans, and these guys use damn good guns alongside powerful melee weapons like ballistic fists and thermic lances.

They are also very cunning. Look at the trap they had sprung at Nipton, or how they killed or ghoulified so many NCR troops by irradiating Camp Searchlight. They had also deeply infiltrated Camp McCarran with a mole and were getting detailed information about NCR troop movements and plans which they used to spring ambushes and take out Ranger Station Charlie, and they took time to boobytrap the corpses to try and kill even more NCR when they come to investigate what had happened. So yes, the Legion is a very crafty and cunning enemy. I imagine they do a lot of these attacks under the cover of night where the NCR guns would be less effective. There's the big heavily armed and armored tank Legion like Lanius, and there is also the lightweight, crafty, hit and run Legion led by Vulpes.

The Legion are not some melee idiots that zerg rush at NCR machine guns. Most of their attacks you never directly see in the game, but you do see the aftermaths of it (Nipton, Searchlight, etc.). If what happened at these places is a "joke", then the NCR certainly doesn't find it amusing.
 

Max Stats

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Comparing a village to a city isn't fair,

In America, there's little difference between a village and a city, other than size, and maybe some bureaucratic nonsense (like the idiots that are all "not a state, a commonwealth"). No one lives in huts in any way unless they're dirty treehuggers trying to make a point. Is Europe different in that regard?
 

Jick Magger

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Also the whole "lol Legion suckz cuz they have no guns" meme is stupid. The guys with sticks and machetes are low-level legionnaries, they're the low-level guys sent first as cannon fodder. The real mainstays of the Legion are Prime Legionaries and Veterans, and these guys use damn good guns alongside powerful melee weapons like ballistic fists and thermic lances.

They are also very cunning. Look at the trap they had sprung at Nipton, or how they killed or ghoulified so many NCR troops by irradiating Camp Searchlight. They had also deeply infiltrated Camp McCarran with a mole and were getting detailed information about NCR troop movements and plans which they used to spring ambushes and take out Ranger Station Charlie, and they took time to boobytrap the corpses to try and kill even more NCR when they come to investigate what had happened. So yes, the Legion is a very crafty and cunning enemy. I imagine they do a lot of these attacks under the cover of night where the NCR guns would be less effective. There's the big heavily armed and armored tank Legion like Lanius, and there is also the lightweight, crafty, hit and run Legion led by Vulpes.

The Legion are not some melee idiots that zerg rush at NCR machine guns. Most of their attacks you never directly see in the game, but you do see the aftermaths of it (Nipton, Searchlight, etc.). If what happened at these places is a "joke", then the NCR certainly doesn't find it amusing.
That and The Legion did try to zerg rush the NCR before the game began; during the first Battle of Hoover Dam, and they lost badly. The game pretty much acknowledges that the primary reason the Legion is doing so well is because the NCR utterly failed to capitalize on that success. They're now overextended, have forces largely consisting of conscripts and draftees (a few characters confirm that their professional and experienced troops are back in California, having been assigned to protect the ranches and properties of affluent merchants from raiders, highlighting the inefficient and corrupt bureaucracy of the NCR), and are lead by a highly incompetent general who's more interested in gaining personal glory than actually winning the war. Adding on top of this constant terror attacks, raids, and crippling of vital infrastructure, and it's pretty obvious that the Legion are primarily focusing on wearing down the morale of the NCR troops before routing them completely from the territory in one decisive battle.
 

Commissar Draco

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Gotta put two years of Latin study to use somehow!

Seriously though, I chose Legion because no-one else made sense to me. You go to Crocker for a chat, and what do you see? A man hunched over a desk in a dusty suit in a drab office, who sends you off to chat to some local tribals. The NCR didn't even have the goddamn respect to send a notable envoy, just a soldier with a note and the instruction to meet some jackass at the back of the Strip. I just butchered an entire casino and walked out of the Lucky 38, who the fuck did they think I was? Some puppet? Another cog in their machine? They didn't want me, they wanted anyone with a pulse and a gun, who just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

And Mr. House? A coward who hides behind his machines and calls himself a king. A coward who stakes his claim to the region not because he earned it or he's working for the people, but because he built a machine to avoid death two-hundred years ago and think that entitles him to be relevant today. He's a child playing with toys, lining them up in exactly the right order and throwing a fit when they fall down, and the Strip kisses his feet like there's no tomorrow.

Caesar respects the Courier. Caesar is impressed by the Courier. Caesar sends his best Frumentarii to the Courier, because the Courier is important enough to warrant particular treatment. Caesar doesn't deal with lackies or send the Courier to speak to a subordinate, he summons the Courier to his throne and praises their achievements, even those that go against his will. Caesar's faith in the Courier and his choice of ally is so great that he sends them into an unknown bunker beneath his main base without escort, trusting them to recognise the right path. Caesar may enforce a brutal and sadistic system, but at the time that was what made sense given the world I'd moved through. Prisoners openly harassing towns, lawlessness rife, caravans raided, and the NCR did jack-shit. They couldn't even kill some ants chilling on their fucking doorstep. The people in power don't get their hands dirty; Ranger Milo wouldn't let me help him at Nelson because I was too famous with the NCR and I didn't seem like the type to pitch in. Compare that attitude to Vulpes penetrating far behind enemy lines and burning a whole town to ash for everyone to see, and tell me whose system keeps the Mojave safe.

Yes this was Commissar impression too; the moment you end up the tutorial half quest you are doing is to eiher clean the frack ups of NCR and/or rescue their arses from fire; Powder Gangers in Goodsprings and Primm where entire prison full of dangerous inmates rebels and takes over the facility but none dares to act against Oliver Orders and stop them till Courier comes, Nipton and the base where they are too lazy to kill some ants and check what happened to four of their missing soldiers, Camp Searchlight where company size force is against wiped out by Legion commando raid, Nelson where 18 legionares took fortified position held by entire 30-40 men strong platoon, the condition the Camp Forlone Hope is, how New Vegas is den of scum and villainy and Camp Mac Carren is infiltrated by Frumentari, Share cropers are wasting cause again the NCR is too bureaucratic to fix water problem, entire families are snatched from refugee camps and got sold to Fiends cause nobody cares to do their job.... etc... etc.... And as clue they hire Mister Fantastic to fix Helios One. :lol:

Now compare how Cassidy, Raul and Merchant from Caesar Camp talk how save roads are in Legion Territory and how merchants pay lower taxes, don't need armed escort and Legion settlements have all electricity and running water. They really should show us altleast one Legion settlement... so well run and organized it won't offer us any quests except showeling crap maybe. :lol:

The only arguments against legions is at this point the autistic scratching of :selfhate::liberals: about muh racysm, sexim and homophobia cause on objective comparison the Legion run society simply not only work but thrives in harsh post apocalyptic wasteland while NCR and House are just copying Old world errors.
 
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Gnidrologist

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Legion is also copying old world errors. Choice between sickly, mismanaged empire and a psychotic machete rape gang isn't a choice between good and bad. Legion is more cohesive and well run at the time, because they function sort of like Cosa Nostra with small, ruthless leadership at the helm and fanatical biker gangs at the bottom. It can't really be compared to an organization that tries to function as a state. Mongols were more efficient than a lot of empires at the time of their comeuppance too, but no one wants to be mongol.
 

TC Jr

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Annoying to know that New Vegas, as good as it is, doesn't have the extra legion areas/NPC's. Legion playthrough is still fun but too short.
 

Chris Avelltwo

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but no one wants to be mongol.

The Great Khans do. And if you take a benevolent approach towards them you are able to steer them more towards that direction with books about the real Mongol empire you can get from the Followers of the Apocalypse. It's quite possible that no one in the Great Khans at the time of New Vegas ever knew there was a real Mongol empire, or anything about it. The first we know of it is that is plays a big part in the events of the original Fallout, but quite possibly it dates back to right after the Great War, or maybe even before then. People who lived in the old world might have known about the Mongols and decided to create a raider gang based on that, and then this got passed down through generations until the events of New Vegas. Maybe it is even older than the great war. Maybe it started out as a biker gang or something in the pre-war era and survived the apocalypse and became raiders thereafter.

In any case, you're wrong about no one wanting to be Mongol. Mongols are bad ass.
 

Gnidrologist

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Khans are low IQ riffraff. It's appropriate for them to emulate primitive nomadic social structures of the past. My point is that mongols were never able to settle down in a structured society. When the wind ceased to blow in their sails for more epic raids, their glory perished without any heritage left. Look at modern Mongolia. They also strike another checkbox, when speculating about potential future of the Legion - acute great leader dependence. Without one they are just primitive mouthbreathers.
 

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