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Atlus Persona 5

Cromwell

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
5,443
It's ironic, that while the game's final message is that of rebellion against the status quo, it's ultimately a piece of escapist fluff. In the wonderful world of P5, you can be the noble vigilante Joker, with his own harem and magical ability to force evildoers to confess their crimes. In the real world, you better get back to work in your cubicle, slave.

Even in by ingame logic only you are the superstar, everyone else apart from the thieves has no real option to rebel against anything, either because the people are more or less powerless against whatever it is that oppresses them or they are oblivious.

It gets even more ironic if you think about the fact that even the thieves themselves, although they ask why nobody else rebels against whoever palace owner youre up against at the time, bend over and took it in the ass until somebody came along and made them psychosuperheroes.

But whatever points I could critize about the writing I am probably not japanese enough to understand their mindset fully and in the end its a videogame for teenagers. So there were a lot of points that were cringeworthy for me but I still had a lot of fun with the game and wouldnt have minded if they had given me more scenes with my confidant and waifu. It was more than worth my money.
 
Self-Ejected

buru5

Very Grumpy Dragon
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I've never played Persona 5, but from what I've seen it's exactly like Persona 3 and 4, which I have played. Persona 4 I actually completed (god knows how that happened), and got the good ending with 100% completion. I guess I was just more autistic then than I am now (probably because I stopped drinking fluoride water). SMT: Strange Journey has been the only SMT game I've enjoyed (although it has serious problems too), so take that as you will.

But on a more serious note, this series is fucking GARBAGE. Here's why. The gameplay lacks depth, it's very linear, there's no customization outside of the pokemon bullshit (pokemon having FAR MORE depth than this), and it's full of weeb-tier hipster edge.

My experience with Persona 4 totally ruined this entire series for me. I started the game, sat through (literally no joke) TWO HOURS OF TEXT before I could control my fucking character. At that point I'm doing some high-school stuff that I really didn't care about. I rushed through this as fast as possible and got to the first dungeon (after many many more hours of text). The first dungeon was bland, it was the same texture over and over again with very linear corridors (at least they're randomly generated, but randomly generated doesn't excuse shit design). Encountered the same 5 enemies this entire dungeon and there are maybe like 5 or so floors of this same thing (maybe more, idr it's been years since I played).

After looking up the game a bit I discovered that I couldn't even complete this dungeon in 1 sitting because it would ruin my progression with social links. So I had to leave the dungeon and start doing the """"SIM""" elements, which aren't really sim at all. Just talking to people and deciding who the fuck I wanted to fuck, which was cringe in itself. Somehow making friends empowered my character's personas, so I continued to do this, using a guide most of the time because 100% completion is IMPOSSIBLE without one due to the retarded time limits on absolutely everything in this game. The combat itself is also just awful due to the limited demon variety in the dungeons, once you've seen everything you just use the spells their weak to and gang up, there's no real sense of strategy to this and the game (at least the original ps2 version) requires a good bit of grinding due to some boss power-checks. So you mindlessly do the same thing over and over simply to get a few levels. Use your bufudyne or whatever and you're good.

Persona is the embodiment of everything wrong with JRPGs. Focus on story over actual gameplay, linear corridor paths, lack of real impact in your choices, illusions of depth (you can choose which friends to make but not making friends with all of them gimps your character), and a forced edgy plot. If you're sitting there reading text for HOURS on end with no real significant control of your character then the developer has failed, this is why I don't consider Telltale a real game dev. Good games tell their stories as you play and control your character, or at least take you out of control for brief periods of time (NOT HOURS).

I don't see how anyone could enjoy this series unless they're seriously weaboo af and enjoy visual novels over actual games.

That being said, if Persona 5 is actually significantly different then I will give it a try.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Messages
1,633
The lack of player control and cut scenes have been a pretty big criticism throughout the thread. That's just how Persona rolls, take it or leave it. I'm not the biggest fan of All-Out-Attacks, either, I think they get way too redundant after awhile and the frequent hour-long spats where you're only watching cut scenes are more or less keeping me from starting a NG+ playthrough.

For what it's worth, there is some 'meat' to the gameplay once you start jumping into the dungeons, especially if you're playing on hard. Early on you are pretty strapped for SP regen and your party can easily get wiped in a turn if you play your cards wrong. You can't auto-pilot most encounters the same way you can in other JRPGs.

I would sooner recommend you something like Nocturne if the Persona formula is that abhorrent to you. I find it the best that the Megaten games have to offer.
 
Self-Ejected

buru5

Very Grumpy Dragon
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I would sooner recommend you something like Nocturne if the Persona formula is that abhorrent to you. I find it the best that the Megaten games have to offer.

Yeah, I played Noctrune. Pretty challenging game and much better than P4. I enjoyed SJ more, probably just because I think JRPGS do really well in portable format.
 

Malpercio

Arcane
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Messages
1,534
You could try Persona 2 which is significantly different than modern Persona (Both in gameplay and story, think 90' anime), but be warned that a lot of modern JRPG players cannot stand P1-2's gameplay.
 

Cromwell

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
5,443
I said I had a huge amount of fun with the game. Well that was actually before I defeated the last boss and saw the ending.
It feels like I did something wrong. The part of the story where they explain that its perfectly normal for parents to send their kid away to unknown persons because they did some wrong stuff I attributed to japanese weirdness and plot demands. Now The MC has spent a whole year in his new circumstances, became a womanizing godslayer saved the world and made a host of new friends. So far so cliched but good, and now it ends with the mc just going back to his old life? Leaving behind hios waifu and all the people that care about him and that he cares about?

For all I know the only thing waiting for him are disinterested parents and crippling loneliness. How is this supposed to be a happy ending? Fucking japs sure know how to be depressing even in a game for teenagers about waifus and freudian superheroes.
 

yes plz

Arcane
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Joined
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Messages
2,158
Pathfinder: Wrath
Persona 4 has that same problem.

"You've spent the past year (or 60+ hours for the player) building up relationships and getting to know everyone! ... Now it's time to leave them all."
 

InD_ImaginE

Arcane
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Pathfinder: Wrath
You could try Persona 2 which is significantly different than modern Persona (Both in gameplay and story, think 90' anime), but be warned that a lot of modern JRPG players cannot stand P1-2's gameplay.

The grind was hilariously bad. Like "get maybe 1 to 3 cards a battle but you need 100 of them to get a strong persona" bad. Been a long time since I play P2EP on PS though, might be hyperbolzing this.
 
Joined
Apr 5, 2013
Messages
2,430
The grind was hilariously bad. Like "get maybe 1 to 3 cards a battle but you need 100 of them to get a strong persona" bad. Been a long time since I play P2EP on PS though, might be hyperbolzing this.

Your're NOT hypebolizing, out of every king of grinding in any SMT, grinding for skill cards in Persona 2 duology was fucking worst of them all. It's not a big problem in Innocent Sin which is easiest Megaten I've played so you don't need a new Persona every step...

(auto MP regeneration, enemies dealing damage of 1-2 HP, Armageddon Fusion Spell that can obliterate any enemy squad in single turn, incliding nazis, Hitler and Nyarlahotep)

... but in Eternal Punishment it became a fucking slog.
 

lightbane

Arcane
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
10,158
I said I had a huge amount of fun with the game. Well that was actually before I defeated the last boss and saw the ending.

The Persona games are guilty of the same thing since the 3rd one, which was way worse in this regard. Thankfully, most of the cast were insufferable assholes, so you wouldn't miss anyone really.
 

yes plz

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
2,158
Pathfinder: Wrath
If you have FES and play the Answer then what happens with the MC in P3 is different and more interesting than "Then you got on a train and left everyone."

I've always wondered if they'd ever follow up with what happens there, though since they apparently edited out the dialogue that references it in P4 in the Golden version I'm guessing not.
 

McPlusle

Savant
Joined
May 11, 2017
Messages
319
Is 5 as much of a chore to play as 3 and 4? I know the day-to-day progression is still there, but is there at least interesting combat or social links that actually feel like they mean something this time?
 

Cromwell

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
5,443
Is 5 as much of a chore to play as 3 and 4? I know the day-to-day progression is still there, but is there at least interesting combat or social links that actually feel like they mean something this time?

Didnt play 4 only three so my opinion may not matter much. The combat is more or less the same but you have more "elements" to play with its still only " get enemies weakened to get extra turns. You have some fights where you have to do some special stuff to hurt the enemie but that is rare and only ends with you chosing someone who does whatever is needed where you hack away at the boss with the remaining party. The confidants still mean nothing, either you like their stories or not, they give you special skills which are useful but not really needed.

The only thing that is really needed is the baton pass skill which you get with every link in your core team which allows you to pass the turn over to another party member after you weakened an enemy effectively skipping the turn order and giving that member an extra turn this round. Other examples are extra ep for backup members, being able to switch backup members with active members in fights etc. Everything is useful but some more than others and aside form the mentioned baton pass I wouldnt call anything on the list strictly necessary. Maybe the switch option but only if you play on higher difficulties to have easier access to buffs and debuffs in a fight (instead of having to rely solely on the main char to provide the neded skills)

The story is still told through main scenes and while confidants may have main story related stuff to tell you theres nothing that gives a deeper insight into the main story, it remains extra fluff.

You can break the gameplay into roughly 3 parts, 1 being railroaded into a new palace 2. doing that palace while having a deadline 3. the point after you did the palace until the deadline arrives and your back to 1. A palace will always take two days to do at least, some palaces take a bit more time since you may be kicked out of it due to story reasons. Only after you finished one you are truly free to do whatever you want (until the fallout of your actions when the deadline arrives).

I dont think its possible to max everything and do everything in one playthrough if you play blind but should be possible if you use a guide.

Romances dont get acknowledged outside of special events with that confidant. Contrary to what the internet might tell you there are no gazillion different endings. Theres a game over sequence for every mission you might fail (meaning not finishing the palace in time) and one for failing the interrogation that starts at the beginning of the game. Whatever you do while playing you cant fuck up by not leveling a confidant or being somewhere at date x instead of being somewhere else at date y or giving the "wrong" answer. Its either game over or the game goes on.

The only exception is more or less at the very end when you talk to the big bad and he pretty much asks you "do you prefer ending a or b". The game will tell you that this answer is important. The game also warns you when you get to a high confident rank and the conversation might lead to romance so that you dont lock into romancing someone "by accident".

Theres also NG+ which is more or less worhtless since it doesnt add anything to the game aside from an extra persona you may only fuse in new game+, and some stuff you carry over from the first playthrough but since nothing in the game changes that becomes redundant.
 

Malpercio

Arcane
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Messages
1,534
The grind was hilariously bad. Like "get maybe 1 to 3 cards a battle but you need 100 of them to get a strong persona" bad. Been a long time since I play P2EP on PS though, might be hyperbolzing this.

Your're NOT hypebolizing, out of every king of grinding in any SMT, grinding for skill cards in Persona 2 duology was fucking worst of them all. It's not a big problem in Innocent Sin which is easiest Megaten I've played so you don't need a new Persona every step...

(auto MP regeneration, enemies dealing damage of 1-2 HP, Armageddon Fusion Spell that can obliterate any enemy squad in single turn, incliding nazis, Hitler and Nyarlahotep)

... but in Eternal Punishment it became a fucking slog.


>form contracts with demons
>now every time you'll ask for tarots you'll get the "free" tarots
>???
>profit
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 5, 2013
Messages
2,430
Yeah, I've been bringing that blank cards for Demon Painter but it only eases the pain a bit. IS/EP duology maybe the best Persona geam plot-wise but gameplay is a bottom-tier.
 

drae

Augur
Joined
Aug 9, 2013
Messages
179
Well, I would say Persona 5 does encourage rebellion, even the final message of the game is pretty clear
get out, make yourself heard, change things, fight the authorities
, it's just feels half-assed like a lot of the other social commentaries in the game. As Cowboy Moment said, it comes off as "fake, cheap, and unearned".

God damn wannabe anarchist game devs ruining an RPG with loads of potential :patriot:
 

Hyperion

Arcane
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
2,120
Theres also NG+ which is more or less worhtless since it doesnt add anything to the game aside from an extra persona you may only fuse in new game+, and some stuff you carry over from the first playthrough but since nothing in the game changes that becomes redundant.

And a hidden boss.
 

taxalot

I'm a spicy fellow.
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Your wallet.
Codex 2013 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
I will just share some of my feelings that are ridiculously identical to some of yours heres. I am inside the third palace. The game feels both like a major step up from P3 & P4, and also a step down in other fields.

In terms of presentation, it is simply put, one of the most well and artistically put together game I ever played. It's not impressive technically, but every menu is like a small piece of art. Combined with the excellent music, the game oozes of a feeling of "maturity", in a sense that every single little detail has been thought to make it cohesive with the whole. This is, really, really, impressive and it contributes to the atmosphere.

Storywise, it is nice to have for once (and I'm not speaking just about the Persona series here) not characters who are victims or something and react to events, but characters who actually decide to change the course of events and do something. It is pretty, pretty rare in games and in RPGs. Matter of fact, from the top of my head, I can't think of any game that does that. The "change the world if you hate it" theme is exhilariting. It is, so far, a bit "video game shallow" but I expect it to become a little bit deeper.

But yes, there is a major step back compared to previous entries, and I'm not entirely sure there is a technical reason for it because it feels really forced : almost no free time. I have never in a Persona game felt this little concerned about fulfilling social links and raising other stats with activities like studying when you have a dungeon that you have to complete above all and everything, then Mementos, and when the other days that smegging cat telling you you have to stay home, because, because. Because of this, it feels like an incredibly linear romp ; I hear that you eventually get this freedom.... If you do the New Game + because it gives you a lot more free time. That is stupid as fuck. If I do a NG+, I will do it at a much harder difficulty to at least have some challenge so it likely won't even apply.

Still, a great, great, great game. NOT SAD !
 

Red Rogue

Learned
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Dec 6, 2015
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148
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The Squat Rack
Completed the game the other day.

Clocked out at 130hrs and I have to say I enjoyed nearly every minute of them. I missed the deadline for the first dungeon because I wasn't aware that sending the calling card took a whole day, and I wiped twice due to dungeon bullshit. All three times set me back quite a bit, but I only rage quit one of those times. Half of me wished that the game was more forgiving when I got shafted, but the other half of me felt satisfied to play a game with at least a respectable attempt at enforcing consequences. That's a hard thing to come by these days.

The last 15 or so hours felt a little unnecessary. I understand the game couldn't just end when it implied it was going to end, what kind of JRPG would it be if that were the case? But the plot went pretty bonkers pretty damn quick at the end. I was really connected with the plot and lost touch a bit at the finale.

However, the game was still incredibly strong for me because I felt a legitimate melancholy when I realized this long adventure with my companions was over.
Overall, I would say this game was a 9/10 for me. GOTY frontrunner so far, but I haven't played very many 2017 games yet.
I will likely play through it again for another 100 hours on NG+ some day, maybe if they release a costume pack I like I'll get one and do it that way.
 

Duraframe300

Arcane
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Dec 21, 2010
Messages
6,395
Theres also NG+ which is more or less worhtless since it doesnt add anything to the game aside from an extra persona you may only fuse in new game+, and some stuff you carry over from the first playthrough but since nothing in the game changes that becomes redundant.

That's... not the whole truth as you can't really do everything on a first playthrough. You can do a whole lot of the content (with a guide) but theres still some minor scenes you are missing be that through the books/movies/dvds/games or invitations. Theres also some scenes that are exclusive on a playthrough

( But nobodys gonna play through the game 10 times just to see all the beach/christmas scenes)

That said, you can easily see nearly all the optional scenes on a second playthrough if you maxed confidants fitst run. Maxed stats, Kawikamis and chiahas carry over abilities and whatever christmas presents you got take care of that.
 

Cromwell

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
5,443
Theres also NG+ which is more or less worhtless since it doesnt add anything to the game aside from an extra persona you may only fuse in new game+, and some stuff you carry over from the first playthrough but since nothing in the game changes that becomes redundant.

That's... not the whole truth as you can't really do everything on a first playthrough. You can do a whole lot of the content (with a guide) but theres still some minor scenes you are missing be that through the books/movies/dvds/games or invitations. Theres also some scenes that are exclusive on a playthrough

( But nobodys gonna play through the game 10 times just to see all the beach/christmas scenes)

That said, you can easily see nearly all the optional scenes on a second playthrough if you maxed confidants fitst run. Maxed stats, Kawikamis and chiahas carry over abilities and whatever christmas presents you got take care of that.

youre right but its self evident that you can see stuff thats mutually exclusive in ng+ so I only talked about things that are new in ng+ ( I forgot the boss that was pointed out by Hyperion). Its not like Nier for example where you are simply unable to get all the endings in one playthrough.
 

GarlandExCon

Arcane
Joined
May 19, 2014
Messages
6,957
Completed the game the other day.

Clocked out at 130hrs and I have to say I enjoyed nearly every minute of them. I missed the deadline for the first dungeon because I wasn't aware that sending the calling card took a whole day, and I wiped twice due to dungeon bullshit. All three times set me back quite a bit, but I only rage quit one of those times. Half of me wished that the game was more forgiving when I got shafted, but the other half of me felt satisfied to play a game with at least a respectable attempt at enforcing consequences. That's a hard thing to come by these days.

The last 15 or so hours felt a little unnecessary. I understand the game couldn't just end when it implied it was going to end, what kind of JRPG would it be if that were the case? But the plot went pretty bonkers pretty damn quick at the end. I was really connected with the plot and lost touch a bit at the finale.

However, the game was still incredibly strong for me because I felt a legitimate melancholy when I realized this long adventure with my companions was over.
Overall, I would say this game was a 9/10 for me. GOTY frontrunner so far, but I haven't played very many 2017 games yet.
I will likely play through it again for another 100 hours on NG+ some day, maybe if they release a costume pack I like I'll get one and do it that way.

Yeah, I raged quit for three days after the same thing happened to me with the calling card. It sucked but seems like a distant memory now. I actually stopped playing for almost a week for no apparent reason during the part where
Morgana disappears
. I think it was because it was annoying to me and I knew it would move me forward day after day for no reason and I just wasn't in the mood.

One thing about Persona games, they have the most amazing ability to make you care and feel a connection with the characters.
 

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,778
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
I couldn't force myself to continue playing this. Too much text and nonsensic choices, besides being too linear. Felt like an eternal tutorial or something. Perhaps I wasn't in the mood, don't know.
 

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