Looking For an Engine to Suit my Heeds and Desires.

[Wayward Son]

Does anyone know of an engine that is isometric or top-down 2D that would support a party-based RPG? Something in the vein of Infinity Engine, ToEE, or the engine Fallout used. Any help is appreciated.

 

[Wayward Son]

Like, would Godot or Unreal be good choices? Or are there some games that are relatively easy to mod similar to what I've asked for?

 

[RatTower]

Basically Godot, Unreal or Unity are all okay choices. Even Gamemaker could work, depending on what you'd like to make. They all come with their own advantages and disadvantages.

Unreal is a very powerful engine, but it's probably an overkill. Also it's very closely built to AAA workflows, which some people regard as restrictive and complicated.
Unity has great documentation, a vast community and pretty good platform support, but it got some issues concerning licensing and the availability of certain features. Not too long ago they changed the pricing model again and I'm not entirely sure what's in the freely available version right now.
Godot is free, but its community is way smaller and as a result tutorials are harder to find. Especially when it comes to more advanced projects. This can actually break your neck really bad if you don't love debugging.
I only looked into GM a little bit, but from what I understand it's rather easy to handle and has a relatively big community, i.e. lot's of tutorials and help topics.

In any case you'll have to code the "party-based RPG" part yourself.
If you are familiar with object oriented programming I'd go with Unity. It has some solid 2D support as well.
Otherwise GM is probably a good idea. Or maybe even Construct2.

 

[Severian Silk]

The latest RPG Maker supports isometric graphics, and there are some tactical RPG scripts being developed.

RPG Maker only supports 2D sprites however, and the license on those third-party scripts is probably going to be restrictive.

https://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?threads/lecode-tactical-battle-system-0-61.71572/



Looks like you'll need a gamepad to play this.

 

[Davaris]

I tried Unity, then Unreal and left them. Unreal is too big and I really hate visual scripting which has taken over their asset store. My main activities with Unreal was download massive files, read documents, ask questions, get really pissed off at the visual scripting spaghetti.

Unity I got nothing done either. Main activities were buy crap from their asset store and read manuals for the crap I bought in their asset store. It also has an eye watering interface, you have to pay to get rid of, which really shit me after a while. The terms for their assets are awful and few know about them. You can't just buy an asset and use it in a team project. Noooo... You are legally required to buy one asset per team member, if your team is an online one. At least Unreal aren't as dickish as Unity management are in that regard.

I have few gripes with Godot so far. Small download, easy to learn, mature and full featured for 2D. The editor is cross platform, so it works on PC and Linux. I haven't tried it on Apple, but I assume it works the same. I moved to Godot after I realized I have zero interest in 3D. So full featured, mature 2D, easy to learn and rapid development, are the most important things to me now. There are enough tutorials on Youtube and in other places to get you going. On another engine I used would be asking questions almost every day. On Godot I don't seem to ask many at all - but to be fair I just use 2D now. Their community is friendly and motivated and makes tutorials. Their number one programmer is a combination of talented and humble, which is good because I avoid the arrogant programmer types like the plague now.

I also like the way Godot manages their scenes. See here:

Spoiler

Have a read through their intro docs and see if you like their way of doing things:
https://godot.readthedocs.io/en/stable/

And have a look at their community pages, to see how active they are:
https://godotengine.org/community

If you can't program, other options are RPG Maker and Game Maker. I haven't tried either of these, but I assume they are really fast to develop with, but you won't be able to do exactly what you want. You will have to use what has been provided by their programmers.

 

[Wayward Son]

Have a read through their intro docs and see if you like their way of doing things:

Thanks! I'll do that over the course of he next couple of days.

If you can't program, other options are RPG Maker(snip)

Played with that one and found it to be good for a traditional JRPG. Definitely fun but not what I'm aiming for (though Severian Silk said that the new one has support).
OP may be a little misleading as the main thing I want is turn based or RTwP top down combat, doesn't have to necessarily be isometric, though that is preferable.

 

[subotaiy]

The issue with Godot is that debugging in gdscript sucks (or I suck because I can't manage how to fully inspect a more complex node without using print statements ).

 

[Davaris]

The issue with Godot is that debugging in gdscript sucks (or I suck because I can't manage how to fully inspect a more complex node without using print statements ).

Yes that is a pain. Hopefully they will do some more work on it. A work around is to click on the Remote Inspector tab while you are debugging. Inside it is the node tree. If you click on any node, it will show you the node's variables. The other way is to point a var at the variable you are interested in. If it is a simple value it will show up in the debugger.

More info on debugging here
http://www.gamefromscratch.com/?tag=/Godot&page=2

• 
  

  [*]Live script reloading: Saved scripts in the editor will be reloaded in the running game automatically, and tool scripts will also be automatically reloaded.
  [*]Profiler & frame profiler: Godot has a fully featured profiler (with graph plotting), which allows going back in time and see the performance numbers and most used functions frame by frame.
  [*]Remote scene inspector: Inspect the scene tree of the running game live, including nodes and resources.

 

[Severian Silk]

RPG Maker only supports 2D sprites however, and the license on those third-party scripts is probably going to be restrictive.

I checked and the license is actually fairly open.

https://github.com/LecodeMV/leTBS/blob/wip/LICENSE.txt

 

[gaussgunner]

I looked into 3D engines. Unity and Unreal are too big and expensive. BGE is GPL license so that's out unless you're making an open-source game. OGRE and Irrlicht look like overkill for rpgs and I didn't even try them. Godot has an IDE, meh. Panda is newer semi-lightweight engine (but they have plans to make it more like Unity). All the other engines I could find are obsolete or unfinished. Basically either use a big one or make your own.

Panda might be a good place to start at least. I did some prototyping with its python API. It was pretty easy to export Blender models and get them walking around in Panda with decent lighting, shadows, textures, mouse picking, all the basic mid-level 3D shit and low-level support code. The GUI API sucks but I guess you could roll your own using the 2D primitives.

For 3D isometric just do something like
camera.setPosHpr(0,0,0, 30,-40,0)
and use ortho projection if you really want a classic iso look.

 

[vonAchdorf]

I looked into 3D engines. Unity and Unreal are too big and expensive.

Are you calculating with a revenue > 200k p.a.?

 

[gaussgunner]

I looked into 3D engines. Unity and Unreal are too big and expensive.

Are you calculating with a revenue > 200k p.a.?

Who cares? If you're successful you will be, then they'll bleed you dry, then you're just another failed dev studio. And I also said it's too big.

 

[Davaris]

I'm surprised Panda is still going. The last time I looked at it appeared to be dead. I haven't been keeping up with OGRE news since their main programmer stopped being paid.

BTW in Godot 3.0 you will be able to code entirely in C++. Something called GDNative will enable you to link with your code, without recompiling the engine. I assume if you want you can do whatever you like in there. 2D is what it is good at and 3D is supposed to improve in version 3, but who knows how good it would be? It also depends on how much money he gets in his Patreon. If he gets enough to live on the engine will keep advancing rapidly, otherwise it will be spare time only and progress will slow to a crawl.

Info on GDNative is here:
https://godotengine.org/article/dlscript-here
https://godotengine.org/article/godot-30-progress-report-6

 

[Alchemist]

Davaris glad to hear of your positive experiences with Godot. I've been away from game devving for quite a while, but I remember you were going to try out Godot and I was curious how it was going.

I think I heard someone is working on a visual scripting plugin for Godot, for those who don't want to write code.

 

[Davaris]

Davaris glad to hear of your positive experiences with Godot. I've been away from game devving for quite a while, but I remember you were going to try out Godot and I was curious how it was going.

I've tried a few engines in the past and the main thing I found due to engine programmers generally being FPS fanatics, is GUI libraries that have no more than the bare minimum functionality. So the first thing I did with Godot was try to make the Fallout 1 character creation process, and found I could replicate its functionality exactly. Yay!

The other thing I've found lacking in other engines is library functions that make life easier. These are the kinds of things you generally have to write for yourself, but Godot has those as well. Its hard to explain what I mean by that, people will just have to try it for themselves and see.

I was thinking the other night while watching this guy's tutorial channel, that this node paradigm is not programming as I used to understand it, it is something new. The hardest thing I have found with Godot, is breaking out my old mindset. Basically the idea in Godot is you build up functionality by adding nodes together, like they are lego blocks, and if there isn't a node that does what you want, only then do you create a new one using GDScript or C++.

Here's a demo of a very simple node in Godot and there's plenty more on his channel. He's a good teacher.



So yeah, so far I like it. I also like the attitude of the lead programmer and the community of programmers that help him. On a previous engine I was with the guy was a top flight programmer, but his mindset was hopeless and it hurt his business, so that is something I look for now as well.

If I finish a game and ship it, I will say more. Shipping is the ultimate test.

I think I heard someone is working on a visual scripting plugin for Godot, for those who don't want to write code.

I don't like visual scripting myself, but the main Godot programmer is doing it, so it should be first rate. For anyone interested, here is a video where he explains how it works.



On that same channel there is a video where they say Python will be added to it for version 3.0 as well.

 

[Wayward Son]

I've found similar things as to what you state Davaris. All around a solid engine.

 

[:Flash:]

I'm out of sync with the current engine market, so it's possible there are better alternatives nowadays (e.g. I don't know anything about Godot).
But still for the topic and the first post, I think FIFE should be mentioned. It literally stands for "Flexible, Isometric Fallout-like Engine".
http://www.fifengine.net/

 

[Galdred]

I have been using moai for that actually. I wrote a short introduction to it.
Basically, its strengths are that it is cross platform, easy to set up and deploy, and can easily be modified (it is written in C++).
The main drawback is its small user base.

 

[Wayward Son]

And if this is your first game ever chances are you're going to fail, miserably. Start with some smaller projects, FINISH at least a game. Get feedback on it. Etcetera.

Already beat you to it...er, sort of

 

[The_Sloth_Sleeps]

I tried Unity, then Unreal and left them. Unreal is too big and I really hate visual scripting which has taken over their asset store. My main activities with Unreal was download massive files, read documents, ask questions, get really pissed off at the visual scripting spaghetti.

Unity I got nothing done either. Main activities were buy crap from their asset store and read manuals for the crap I bought in their asset store. It also has an eye watering interface, you have to pay to get rid of, which really shit me after a while. The terms for their assets are awful and few know about them. You can't just buy an asset and use it in a team project. Noooo... You are legally required to buy one asset per team member, if your team is an online one. At least Unreal aren't as dickish as Unity management are in that regard.

I have few gripes with Godot so far. Small download, easy to learn, mature and full featured for 2D. The editor is cross platform, so it works on PC and Linux. I haven't tried it on Apple, but I assume it works the same. I moved to Godot after I realized I have zero interest in 3D. So full featured, mature 2D, easy to learn and rapid development, are the most important things to me now. There are enough tutorials on Youtube and in other places to get you going. On another engine I used would be asking questions almost every day. On Godot I don't seem to ask many at all - but to be fair I just use 2D now. Their community is friendly and motivated and makes tutorials. Their number one programmer is a combination of talented and humble, which is good because I avoid the arrogant programmer types like the plague now.

I also like the way Godot manages their scenes. See here:

Spoiler

Have a read through their intro docs and see if you like their way of doing things:
https://godot.readthedocs.io/en/stable/

And have a look at their community pages, to see how active they are:
https://godotengine.org/community

If you can't program, other options are RPG Maker and Game Maker. I haven't tried either of these, but I assume they are really fast to develop with, but you won't be able to do exactly what you want. You will have to use what has been provided by their programmers.

I've been trying Godot all this afternoon. Importing isometric seems badly broken, something funky with the offset.

https://imgur.com/a/YRXKA

I might use it if that works but that's a showstopper unfortunately.

 

[Cloak and Dagger]

Id use Unity for that kind of game

 

[The_Sloth_Sleeps]

As far as I'm concerned Unity is malware.

 

[Cloak and Dagger]

Unity is great for 2D games. personal experience, I'd go UE if he were making a 3D game

 

[Davaris]

I might use it if that works but that's a showstopper unfortunately.

I see you are having a "graphics related problem". For my thoughts on "graphics problems", see the spoiler.

The thing with Godot is everyone is working on it for free, so the documentation isn't so great, Wish I could help but I haven't used it in 4 or 5 months, and no longer have any interest in it. When I was using it I used to get help in their Q&A section, as there were some knowledgeable people there. Only if you are sure you've found a bug, should you report it at their GitHub. The links are all here:
https://godotengine.org/community

Spoiler

The reason I left Godot is after trying many engines over the years, I came to the realization that for 2D games, you don't need engines. They are overly complicated monsters with everything in them including the kitchen sink. They constrain you to the engine designer's way of thinking. You are dependent on the creators for wanted features, and you're at their mercy when it comes to fixing bugs. For me, this makes them no fun to use. So my advice, forget engines and learn 2 code.

I also had a big realization recently, that the overwhelming majority of mental effort in games, both artistic and technical, is expended on how they look, not the game itself. I also realized this obsession among both devs and players is why games went to shit 20 years ago, and they aren't ever coming back. For proof see the former Troika devs making their next game an action game, and they have to employ 70 people to have any hope of making it look pretty enough to sell. If visuals were not a concern, it could be just Leon and Tim working on it, and they could make anything they like.

For an example of my current way of thinking, look at this game here. Too much flashy graphics don't ya think? The dev is a graphics whore! lol


It was made with a library called libtcod.

 

[The_Sloth_Sleeps]

I might use it if that works but that's a showstopper unfortunately.

I see you are having a "graphics related problem". For my thoughts on "graphics problems", see the spoiler.

The thing with Godot is everyone is working on it for free, so the documentation isn't so great, Wish I could help but I haven't used it in 4 or 5 months, and no longer have any interest in it. When I was using it I used to get help in their Q&A section, as there were some knowledgeable people there. Only if you are sure you've found a bug, should you report it at their GitHub. The links are all here:
https://godotengine.org/community

Spoiler

The reason I left Godot is after trying many engines over the years, I came to the realization that for 2D games, you don't need engines. They are overly complicated monsters with everything in them including the kitchen sink. They constrain you to the engine designer's way of thinking. You are dependent on the creators for wanted features, and you're at their mercy when it comes to fixing bugs. For me, this makes them no fun to use. So my advice, forget engines and learn 2 code.

I also had a big realization recently, that the overwhelming majority of mental effort in games, both artistic and technical, is expended on how they look, not the game itself. I also realized this obsession among both devs and players is why games went to shit 20 years ago, and they aren't ever coming back. For proof see the former Troika devs making their next game an action game, and they have to employ 70 people to have any hope of making it look pretty enough to sell. If visuals were not a concern, it could be just Leon and Tim working on it, and they could make anything they like.

For an example of my current way of thinking, look at this game here. Too much flashy graphics don't ya think? The dev is a graphics whore! lol


It was made with a library called libtcod.

You understand the truth and you will go far in life.