Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Incline ---

Serus

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
6,681
Location
Small but great planet of Potatohole
So here I am, reccomending this little pixelated graphic turd that it is equal in terms of complexity/fun/replay value with HOMM 3/4
Fun or or replay value is highly subjective but MoM has certainly higher complexity than HoMM 3 (never played 4). HoMM games are in general very simple (but not too simple to be without depth).
 

rezaf

Cipher
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
650
A bit like System Shock, Master of Magic is a giant toybox of game systems, some of which are optional and/or inoperable by the AI. It's also not weighted down by stupid balance considerations, so some strategies are totally OP whilst it's very hard to get anywhere (comparably) with certain combinations of skills an spellbooks. But most everything has a true, noticable imact, and there's very little of the +3% vs fire based monsters on turns with even numbers in battles on flat terrain (not stackable with other bonuses) nonsense you'll find in modern (most prominently Paradox) games. And balance considerations be darned, the game could be a hellova lot of fun in multiplayer. Great title indeed.
 

Elwro

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
11,746
Location
Krakow, Poland
Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
MoM is a lot more complicated than HoMM. It's more akin to Civilisation, and if you played Civ 1, the relation is obvious ;)
 

Lord Rocket

Erudite
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
1,089
congratulations on defagging yourself a little

(nb. you'll be all the way there when you reach the grand old age of 15 and stop bitching so much about pixels)
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Also go get the Insecticide (MoM 1.40n) patch here:
http://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?tid=3663
I would suggest 1.50 stable, or even 1.51RC5 (the latest so far).
http://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?tid=7954
http://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?tid=8411

Try to read the changes to see what you are getting with each new RC. RC5, for example, introduces changes to the diplomacy system (which got a complete overhaul in 1.50, as the original one was riddled with bugs and inconsistencies)

Much as I love kyrub's works, some of the changes are questionable, and some introduce new bugs. I couldn't stand the changes in AI tactical logic in particular (fixed by 1.50):
During combat, AI will consider units exactly reachable in a turn as being too far, failing to prefer units that can be attacked, resulting in units walking around and ignoring enemies right next to them. (W $9BAD8)

Here are the documented changes of 1.50:
http://masterofmagic.wikia.com/wiki/Unofficial_Patch_1.50

Last I heard, kyrub stopped developing his patch, while Seravi still updates his. If you find a bug in the game, he's your best bet.

Best part? Most, if not all of the fixes are optional and you can change/uninstall them, though the process may be a bit tricky.
 
Last edited:

Old One

Arcane
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
3,679
Location
The Great Underground Empire
I barely, barely scratched all this game has to offer - didn't finish the game, just played with a school of magic (chaos) and with one or two races.
There are many builds and sub-builds that work.

1. The Terraformer - High Elves, green books, select Transmute, Change Terrain, and Gaia's Blessing to start with. You can make almost any location great for an elven city (forests) while making your enemies' lands unsuitable.

2. The Undead Troll Warlord - Trolls, black books, select Black Channels. Build War Trolls as fast as possible, level them up, then make them undead with Black Channels. Normally undead creatures can't be healed, but since trolls fully regenerate after every battle...

3. Chaos Summoner - any decent race, 11 red books, retorts that focus on mana and summoning. With this build you rely on hordes of summoned hellhounds to trounce your enemies early and to pop nodes for more magic. Late game chaos spells are super fun too.

4. The ever-popular Artificer/Runemaster combo. There are lots of variations of this one, but by starting with both of these retorts you can spend the whole game creating your own artifacts then instantly destroying them for double the crystals. Hire a few heroes and outfit them with the best equipment you can craft and they'll be able to zip from one side of the world to the other in a couple of turns. Very few enemies can stop them.

That should get you started.
 

Trash

Pointing and laughing.
Joined
Dec 12, 2002
Messages
29,683
Location
About 8 meters beneath sea level.
One of the top games from the 90's that will forever have a place on my HD along with UFO: Enemy Unknown and MoO II. I can't stress enough how unfortunate that this dev went under and how much it sucks that their last game disappeared into legal limbo. Anyway, do not look for winning strategies of OP builds. Just have fun coming up with your own combinations. I had a blast with my own Sauron like dead lord and his orc armies but also utterly enjoyed my genocidal Klackon run with a nature build. Just don't forget that garrisons are important in this game. ;)
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
Patron
Developer
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
4,346
Location
Middle Empire
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
One of the top games from the 90's that will forever have a place on my HD along with UFO: Enemy Unknown and MoO II. I can't stress enough how unfortunate that this dev went under and how much it sucks that their last game disappeared into legal limbo. Anyway, do not look for winning strategies of OP builds. Just have fun coming up with your own combinations. I had a blast with my own Sauron like dead lord and his orc armies but also utterly enjoyed my genocidal Klackon run with a nature build. Just don't forget that garrisons are important in this game. ;)
They also made Master of Orion 1/2 on top of Master of Magic. It is a tragedy that they stopped operating afterwards indeed.
 

Talby

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
5,507
Codex USB, 2014
I've been playing this lately too. I didn't know they were by the same people, but I noticed the MoO similarities right away, the game setup options are dead giveaway.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
33,052
Location
KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
One of the top games from the 90's that will forever have a place on my HD along with UFO: Enemy Unknown and MoO II. I can't stress enough how unfortunate that this dev went under and how much it sucks that their last game disappeared into legal limbo. Anyway, do not look for winning strategies of OP builds. Just have fun coming up with your own combinations. I had a blast with my own Sauron like dead lord and his orc armies but also utterly enjoyed my genocidal Klackon run with a nature build. Just don't forget that garrisons are important in this game. ;)
They also made Master of Orion 1/2 on top of Master of Magic. It is a tragedy that they stopped operating afterwards indeed.

Honestly, MoM and MoO2 are still the unbeaten kings of the 4x genre. So much to do, so many lovely little details, it's amazing. Yeah, they're unbalanced as fuck but who cares, they're FUN and they let you DO THINGS!

Every time some newly sprung-up indie dev releases a space 4x that has been streamlined so far that planet management consists of adjusting 3 sliders and that's it, I just shrug and go back to MoO2 where I can actually DO THINGS.

Streamlining and balancing are cancerous design principles that have no place in the 4x genre.
 

Arrowgrab

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 20, 2016
Messages
603
There are many builds and sub-builds that work.

1. The Terraformer - High Elves, green books, select Transmute, Change Terrain, and Gaia's Blessing to start with. You can make almost any location great for an elven city (forests) while making your enemies' lands unsuitable.

2. The Undead Troll Warlord - Trolls, black books, select Black Channels. Build War Trolls as fast as possible, level them up, then make them undead with Black Channels. Normally undead creatures can't be healed, but since trolls fully regenerate after every battle...

3. Chaos Summoner - any decent race, 11 red books, retorts that focus on mana and summoning. With this build you rely on hordes of summoned hellhounds to trounce your enemies early and to pop nodes for more magic. Late game chaos spells are super fun too.

4. The ever-popular Artificer/Runemaster combo. There are lots of variations of this one, but by starting with both of these retorts you can spend the whole game creating your own artifacts then instantly destroying them for double the crystals. Hire a few heroes and outfit them with the best equipment you can craft and they'll be able to zip from one side of the world to the other in a couple of turns. Very few enemies can stop them.

That should get you started.

One cheesy build I loved was based around Halflings. Pick the Warlord perk, all Life books and Halflings. Warlord increases your units' level by one, even beyond the normal maximum. One particular global enchantment in Life did the same, so all your units would start as level 3 and could get up to level 5 (IIRC). The utter cheese was that Halfling units had a racial trait called Luck, which scaled with level - and when you went two levels higher than what was supposed to be "normal", it's effect was brutal. Armies of Halfling slingers could wreck everything.
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
Patron
Developer
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
4,346
Location
Middle Empire
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
One of the top games from the 90's that will forever have a place on my HD along with UFO: Enemy Unknown and MoO II. I can't stress enough how unfortunate that this dev went under and how much it sucks that their last game disappeared into legal limbo. Anyway, do not look for winning strategies of OP builds. Just have fun coming up with your own combinations. I had a blast with my own Sauron like dead lord and his orc armies but also utterly enjoyed my genocidal Klackon run with a nature build. Just don't forget that garrisons are important in this game. ;)
They also made Master of Orion 1/2 on top of Master of Magic. It is a tragedy that they stopped operating afterwards indeed.

Honestly, MoM and MoO2 are still the unbeaten kings of the 4x genre. So much to do, so many lovely little details, it's amazing. Yeah, they're unbalanced as fuck but who cares, they're FUN and they let you DO THINGS!

Every time some newly sprung-up indie dev releases a space 4x that has been streamlined so far that planet management consists of adjusting 3 sliders and that's it, I just shrug and go back to MoO2 where I can actually DO THINGS.

Streamlining and balancing are cancerous design principles that have no place in the 4x genre.
I think the only game that managed to streamline MOO2 well was MOO1.
 
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
1,387
Location
Australia
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
One cheesy build I loved was based around Halflings. Pick the Warlord perk, all Life books and Halflings. Warlord increases your units' level by one, even beyond the normal maximum. One particular global enchantment in Life did the same, so all your units would start as level 3 and could get up to level 5 (IIRC). The utter cheese was that Halfling units had a racial trait called Luck, which scaled with level - and when you went two levels higher than what was supposed to be "normal", it's effect was brutal. Armies of Halfling slingers could wreck everything.

I used to do the same with Paladins, a unit for High Men, which, if I remember correctly, had magic immunity. Paladins were totally OP.
 

kyrub

Augur
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
347

I second this, Seravi is the wizard now. His patch has taken over and improved my work in many aspects. Kudos to him!

After long years of deep relationship with this game, I am less in love with the imbalance of MoM. Let's be honest, it screws the enjoyment, once you learn the tricks. The poor choices are the worst (and there are many). I enjoy shorter and well-thought titles today.
 

Lagi

Savant
Joined
Jul 19, 2015
Messages
726
Location
Desert
Just buy MoM and the blast render me irradiated. Must refrain from checking this thread, cause you guys will spoil all the fun.

Which mod is it worth install?
seravin 1,51 or seravins Caster of Magic?

kyrub you made SMAC mod? holly shit... is it christmas?
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom