1eyedking Lack of a party is the true core problem with Bethesda games

[Reapa]

name one better party based rpg

wizardry 8 - checkmate. but really any party based, turn based rpg is better and most real time with pause. except maybe for tton, poe and some obscure crap nobody ever heard of.

 

[hivemind]

wrong

 

[Keldryn]

 

[anvi]

All party based RPGs are better cuz they have classes and stuff...

 

[Bruma Hobo]

If Obsidian created a Skyrim with a party and TB combat... We would all be happy and probably nobody else would buy it.

I mean, was there any other game that had a party, free movement and TB combat other than Wizardry 8 and Wizards & Warriors?

I don't know, a hiking sim with turn-based combat could have mainstream appeal if done properly. For example, combat with a single character in Wizards and Warriors plays faster than most action games, doesn't feel too abstract (meaning it can please mainstream gamers), and is still a fine turn-based system. A well polished game centred around that kind of combat, while obviously not a tacticool experience, would still be a proper RPG with dice-rolls and risk and reward gameplay (not unlike Telengard, the first Dragon Quest, or most roguelikes), and the added benefit of seamless exploration, immershun, and casual appeal.

Also, Paper Sorcerer and Frayed Knights have both free movement and turn-based combat. The former was, if I'm not mistaken, quite profitable, while the latter is getting a sequel.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

name one better party based rpg

Wizardry (1981), Ultima III: Exodus (1983), Dungeon Master (1987), Pool of Radiance (1988). And please note that I consider Age of Decadence the best RPG of 2015.

 

[anvi]

Best RPG of October 2015 for sure.

 

[Lady_Error]

I don't know, a hiking sim with turn-based combat could have mainstream appeal if done properly.

Well, ever since hiking sims became a thing, not one of them came out even with the option to switch to TB combat.

For example, combat with a single character in Wizards and Warriors plays faster than most action games

W&W has a party - unless you mean playing with one character on purpose.

Also, Paper Sorcerer and Frayed Knights have both free movement and turn-based combat.

I don't know about Frayed Knights, but Paper Sorcerer is a dungeon crawler with grid-based maps and monochrome graphics. Hardly anything near a TB hiking simulator.

 

[Lady_Error]

aod is single character and it's better than literally any party based rpg

AoD would have been even better with a party that you can assemble over time.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

For example, combat with a single character in Wizards and Warriors plays faster than most action games

W&W has a party - unless you mean playing with one character on purpose.

I do, playing W&W with a single party member does feel like immersive popamole (unlike slow and abstract games like Fallout) while having turn-based combat. A game building over that base could become quite popular.

Also, Paper Sorcerer and Frayed Knights have both free movement and turn-based combat.

I don't know about Frayed Knights, but Paper Sorcerer is a dungeon crawler with grid-based maps and monochrome graphics. Hardly anything near a TB hiking simulator.

I was answering your question about turn-based blobbers with free movement, both Paper Sorcerer and Frayed Knights qualify.

 

[anvi]

I only quit AOD because it had too much reading and walking around.

 

[Barnabas]

I'm having trouble contacting the thieves in Vastares, can't find a decent walk through. Any help?

 

[HeatEXTEND]

I only quit AOD because it had too much reading and walking around.

 

[JarlFrank]

aod is single character and it's better than literally any party based rpg

AoD's combat would be a lot more fun with controllable companions.

Proof: Dungeon Rats.

 

[Lady_Error]

Colony Ship RPG will also have recruitable companions, so the Führer is fully aware of this.

 

[undecaf]

aod is single character and it's better than literally any party based rpg

It isn't, but it does (further) prove that single character games can manage TB combat just fine.

 

[laclongquan]

What the Don said!

Sheeesh! For fuck's sake! NWN1 has no party as Codex recognize the term but there's a mad following in here. Star War Knights of the Old Republic has a minimalist's party size and ditto. Witcher series's Gerald? Even more so.

The true, core, problem of Bethesda game is shitty writings. There's a mastermind in there who control what get written and whatnot. Anytime there's no control of his/her/its, aka Fallout New Vegas, game got great.

 

[Iznaliu]

What the Don said!

Bannon is probably playing Skyrim as of this moment.

The true, core, problem of Bethesda game is shitty writings. There's a mastermind in there who control what get written and whatnot. Anytime there's no control of his/her/its, aka Fallout New Vegas, game got great.

There is no true, core problem. Everything about Beth games is mediocre, uninspired and meaningless, from the writing to the combat.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

The true, core, problem of Bethesda game is shit

There you go

 

[undecaf]

The true, core, problem of Bethesda game is shitty writings.

I'm fairly sure I could endure their shitty writings, if their games had character systems and related gameplay worth a damn.

 

[Ramnozack]

I agree in that the biggest problem with Bethesda games are their writing. Combat systems are easily fixed with mods, shit writing in the base content of the game can never be fixed.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Generally playing a Beth game I kick the difficulty way up before anything else. Open world becomes more interesting when you're scared of going outside city walls.

 

[prodigydancer]

TL;DR: Neither quest, world, dialogue design nor the real time combat is what is wrong with bethesda turds, but rather the lack of a party is the true core issue.

DA:I is a party-based game and it's worse than Skyrim. SCL is party-based and it's worse than NWN1 where you didn't have an actual party.

I understand what you're talking about. Having a party to fiddle with can sometimes mitigate (or at least disguise) the flaws. But it's not a panacea. You can't make a really bad game better by adding party mechanics to the mess you already have. Micromanagement isn't a substitute for combat system, party banter doesn't neccessarily dispel boredom, and companion quests, even if they provide a nice distraction, won't make the critpath less of a trainwreck.

The problem with Beth games in particular is the combat system that has barely evolved since 1997. The solution is simple: go hire a team of young aspiring game designers, give them carte blanche, be patient and in a few years you'll have your new franchise with new systems and new everything. They could do it easily with FO4. Even if they wanted to hedge against all risks, they could outsource FO4 to Obsidian. But they won't do it. They'll stick with their tried-and-true formulae until they go down with them.

 

[Reapa]

TL;DR: Neither quest, world, dialogue design nor the real time combat is what is wrong with bethesda turds, but rather the lack of a party is the true core issue.

DA:I is a party-based game and it's worse than Skyrim. SCL is party-based and it's worse than NWN1 where you didn't have an actual party.

I understand what you're talking about. Having a party to fiddle with can sometimes mitigate (or at least disguise) the flaws. But it's not a panacea. You can't make a really bad game better by adding party mechanics to the mess you already have. Micromanagement isn't a substitute for combat system, party banter doesn't neccessarily dispel boredom, and companion quests, even if they provide a nice distraction, won't make the critpath less of a trainwreck.

yes, but with a TB party "backbone" mods could maybe save the likes of Skyrim at least in the combat department. Then again, TB could conflict with spanking sex mods like initiating combat and making you spank in turns with more than one char which could be decline or incline depending on personal preferences. and then consoletards probably need the zoom out (3rd person) camera to see the asses of their chars while playing (this is probably what it all boils down to in the end, just like the UI that has to be made specifically for them). otherwise it's not immersive for them and could pose a problem with an 8 char 3rd person camera.
DA:I falls under the obscure crap nobody ever heard of category like TESO. Both MMOs that got really no attention from anyone besides perhaps crispy.
and i wasn't talking about adding party TB to a game already made but start with that premise.

 

[anvi]

I agree in that the biggest problem with Bethesda games are their writing. Combat systems are easily fixed with mods, shit writing in the base content of the game can never be fixed.

I disagree. Writing can be fixed with mods, the combat was never fixed.