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KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

Israfael

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Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Messages
3,580
I don't think simulating the economy requires that much effort - after all two guys managed to do it back in 1994, why would it be different now? It's just numbers and some basic UI assets (no visual representation required). The fact that other games lack it is purely conceptual, not because it's hard to do. People that want stuff should just understand that most simulated features would not be balanced (and 'balance' is the main enemy of such things), therefore if developers say they strive for balance, you'd mostly get boardgame crap if anything at all
 

Taka-Haradin puolipeikko

Filthy Kalinite
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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
What economy?
There aren't any governments left to pay monthly allowance for scientists and other personnel.

There probably will be some game mechanics to gain some restricted resources (alien alloys and elerium equivalents) and additional personnel, but they haven't talked about those as far as I can tell.
 

Themadcow

Augur
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
308
I don't think simulating the economy requires that much effort - after all two guys managed to do it back in 1994, why would it be different now? It's just numbers and some basic UI assets (no visual representation required). The fact that other games lack it is purely conceptual, not because it's hard to do. People that want stuff should just understand that most simulated features would not be balanced (and 'balance' is the main enemy of such things), therefore if developers say they strive for balance, you'd mostly get boardgame crap if anything at all

Agree. This shit does my head in.

Elite in the early 80's did procedural generation, trading, 3D, dog-fighting, ranking systems, inventory management and modular ship improvements - on less memory than the average modern calculator.

If Gollop could do something half decent in '94 with a 2 man team and quite frankly bugger all studio backing, then I'm pretty sure he can do better now.
 

Alienman

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I don't think simulating the economy requires that much effort - after all two guys managed to do it back in 1994, why would it be different now? It's just numbers and some basic UI assets (no visual representation required). The fact that other games lack it is purely conceptual, not because it's hard to do. People that want stuff should just understand that most simulated features would not be balanced (and 'balance' is the main enemy of such things), therefore if developers say they strive for balance, you'd mostly get boardgame crap if anything at all

If it is based on X-com Apocalypse it will be a bit more advanced.
 

luinthoron

Learned
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Apr 24, 2017
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I hoped someone not moderated anymore would get to this, but since it's been out already for a while... 3rd campaign update:

Alien Living Guns
The alien living guns are genetically engineered creatures which can be used by human soldiers. The mystery as to their origin will form the basis for some very special missions.

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FAQ update: The chitin armor and alien living guns will be made available as part of a DLC which will ship 3 months after game launch. Fig backers can get exclusive early access to these items at game launch for a discounted price. They are available with the Luxury Digital Edition and above.

Synedrion
The third faction to be presented in our updates is a radical, techno-ecological group. They possess advanced tech and some unique approaches to the alien menace - but they are not easy to deal with.

Check out the Phoenix Project analysis of Synedrion here.

https%3A%2F%2Fd3pylr1apgoxnh.cloudfront.net%2Fcampaign_body_images%2Fimages%2Fdefa381f07dc281f570a3075c94cc2c9deb056aa%2Foriginal.jpg%3F1493391696

http://www.phoenixpoint.info/synedrion-speech

Synedrion
By Allen Stroud

--------

For centuries, humanity has fought itself in some strange corrupted mockery of Darwin's theory. The arrival of the alien changed all that and provided us with an opportunity to unite.
We believed we were the Earth’s masters, that we knew better than nature. In our arrogance, we exploited the resources of our world, striving to dominate the ecology that birthed and supported us. It was only a matter of time before we were supplanted, just like the animals before us.
Now we must form a new society, learning from our wounds and the scars of our world. The alien is not our enemy unless we choose to oppose it. Our existence is not determined by this, nor defined by the destructive capacity of our predecessors.
So, we must begin again and go back the start. We must look at biology, chemistry and archaeology with new eyes, taking into account what we’ve learned.
The work has begun. Already we have made inroads, identifying weaknesses and sources from fragmented records. Collecting the knowledge of the past is essential to us finding a place in the future.
Whatever bred these creatures and destroyed our civilisation came from our oceans, the most remote parts of our ecology. Nature evolved answers to germs and viruses. It is in nature we must look for answers. Life is diverse, resistant and powerful. Life evolves and finds strength in subtle ways, but this process is slow and wasteful. We don’t have thousands of years, we have hours, days, weeks and months. Only by experimentation and ingenuity can we shortcut this process.
Life has always found a way. In flora and fauna we will seek out answers that will allow us to defend ourselves, establishing safe territories where we can build new settlements for future generations. The destruction of our past is an opportunity for us to learn humility, to find a new path that leads us to co-existence with whatever comes next. We cannot seek to dominate this world, we must learn to accept being a part of it.


--------

Phoenix Project Comment:
Synedrion represents an intelligent and articulate ideology that has found its voice amidst the devastation of the past. The old ways are lessons of history for a new path and a new society. Great thinkers, ignored in previous struggles between neoconservatives and neo-liberalists are redeemed in the Synedrion vision for a different future.

In many ways, Synedrion is our competitor and a potential colleague. Much of its vision is an enlightened alternative that looks to make a new civilization out of what remains of the old that accommodates the changes to our world. These people intend to press forward in creating a new global nation that seeks a partnership with its citizens and its environment.

Synedrion shares our goal in preserving important knowledge from the past, but looks to adapt this knowledge into a new ecological equilibrium with our world. This equilibrium extends to the alien, who they believe should be accepted as part of their new environment and incorporated into a wider plan of co-existence. Essentially, the alien threat is seen as one amongst many ecological imperatives, which up until now, humanity has attempted to tame or ignore in much the same way as it has attempt to define itself in a subjugated hierarchy.

In practical terms, the decentralised but interconnected organisation of resources and knowledge that is part of Synedrion’s philosophy relies on stable communication networks. Where these don’t exist, the individual settlements become more fragmented from the whole and prioritise self-sufficiency. That said, their philosophy of preservation and sharing can be advantageous to us, unless we are seen to contradict their cohabitation strategy and are seen as regressive.

If this happens, it is likely they will no longer work with us.


Declaration of Principles (Version 2.1)

The following are the core principles of Synedrion, as voted upon by its citizens:

FREEDOM. The freedoms cherished by Synedrion include freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of belief, freedom of assembly, and freedom of movement. They also include freedom from hunger, freedom from violence, freedom from exploitation, freedom from arbitrary/stereotypical cultural norms, and freedom from hierarchies.

RIGHTS. Synedrion fundamentally values all human beings equally, and asserts that all human beings have inalienable rights. These rights exist regardless of talent or ability; they do not need to be earned, but must be defended.

ECOLOGY. Synedrion understands that humanity occupies a unique role in the ecology of the planet. As the only species fully conscious of its impact on its environment, humanity is both uniquely valuable and uniquely responsible. This does not mean taking a mystical or idealist approach to the natural world, but employing reason to create a system of industry that allows both humanity and the global ecology to flourish.

COMMUNALISM. Synedrion rejects the notion of private ownership of the fundamental resources and tools of society, instead placing these in the hands of all citizens. Systemic decisions must be driven by reason, not markets. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need; this is the basis of true individualism.

CONFEDERALISM. Synedrion is not a nation state, but a confederation of municipal popular assemblies, a community of communities rooted in direct democracy and common principles. Synedrion does not have a leader, only representatives.

REASON. Science and technology are the greatest achievements of the human species; their correct application, previously hindered by outdated systems, will allow the creation of a free and ecologically functional society. The alien threat must neither be mystified nor demonized, but treated as a material phenomenon that can eventually be understood and dealt with.

PACIFISM. While the use of violence in self-defense may be inevitable is certain situations in the current state of the world, the citizens of Synedrion assert that long-term solutions to systemic problems must come from structural change and scientific progress, not merely the destruction of an opposing force.
 

Jack Dandy

Arcane
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
3,039
Location
Israel
Divinity: Original Sin 2
So basic goal will definitely be reached, which is great.
Hoping theyt nab as much of the inevitable stretch goals as well.

Anybody know how much % Fig takes of the overall amount collected, compared to Kickstarter?
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
If it ends up more like the old X-coms I'll be happy. The new ones, while not bad per se, are dumbed down significantly and I'd rather have the old ones (which I do and have installed on my PC right now). The alien designs look great, even if a bit patchwerk-y from other similar designs.
 

Starwars

Arcane
Joined
Jan 31, 2007
Messages
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Location
Sweden
Backed for 20 bucks (early bird plus the previous fig backer discount).

Not supercrazy about these types of games generally (though original X-Com is certainly great) but yeah... it sounds pretty damn good.
 

luinthoron

Learned
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Apr 24, 2017
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Estonia
DLC announced already? What in the hell...
It's less "DLC announced" and more "exclusive bonuses turned into delayed DLC due to backer demand". Of course, damned if you do, damned if you don't, before there were complaints about cutting content for others, now there's complaining about DLC.
 

Alienman

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I'm sorry, but I thought pre-release announcement of DLCs was a thing only big bad publishers did.
 

Disgruntled

Savant
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
400
Love almost everything ive read on the project so far. I like that the dirty, mechanical and horror aesthetic, in contrast to the new Xcoms which got tiring after going through the same futuristic sleek architecture over and over. Havent bothered touching Xcom2 since my initial playthrough, even after they released mechs and longwar. I hope Phoenix Point doesnt go down the band of superheroes route like Firaxis, which is another factor that kills my interest for a replay. Squad tactics based on positioning is the most enjoyable part of these kind of games, rather than stacking a bunch of overkill weapons and spamming skills against HP bloated enemies. At least here it would make more sense with proper boss fights and targeting specific body parts.

A bit worried on the funding so far to be honest, they'll hit the goal but id rather see them with $2 million to flesh out every idea than $500-$800 thousand and cutting corners. Not that im helping since i feel like waiting till release or beta before handing over the cash.
 

CRD

Cipher
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Divinity: Original Sin 2
, in contrast to the new Xcoms which got tiring after going through the same futuristic sleek architecture over and over
THIS +10000

Xcom in terms of design is boring and bland, everything is new and shiny. In PP things look disgusting, devastated, old and terrorific, like they have been in a war and there is no time for beauty anymore.

I love the design and the monsters remind me a lot of the ones from John Carpenter like "The thing" or "In the mouth of madness" mixed with the Zerg.

KQlt4SX.gif
tumblr_nly8figjhe1spqx0mo1_500.gif

There is only a thing I don't like, the shining eyes, they are stupid.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,882

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,882
Love almost everything ive read on the project so far. I like that the dirty, mechanical and horror aesthetic, in contrast to the new Xcoms which got tiring after going through the same futuristic sleek architecture over and over. Havent bothered touching Xcom2 since my initial playthrough, even after they released mechs and longwar. I hope Phoenix Point doesnt go down the band of superheroes route like Firaxis, which is another factor that kills my interest for a replay. Squad tactics based on positioning is the most enjoyable part of these kind of games, rather than stacking a bunch of overkill weapons and spamming skills against HP bloated enemies. At least here it would make more sense with proper boss fights and targeting specific body parts.

A bit worried on the funding so far to be honest, they'll hit the goal but id rather see them with $2 million to flesh out every idea than $500-$800 thousand and cutting corners. Not that im helping since i feel like waiting till release or beta before handing over the cash.
Well they can also do an expansion later and add all the things they could not afford for release. Expansion worked well for new Xcom 1 so it can for PP.
 

thesheeep

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And before people go all berserk about it, new Xcom 1 and Xcom 2 were not really optimized well even without using Unity. I doubt they can make it run worse than Xcom 2 which is bad even after all the patches.
The problem with Unity is not that it is a bad engine per-se.
The problem comes from the fact that it is so easy to use that it opens the door for all kinds of untalented hacks calling themselves developers. Naturally, this leads to more games done by idiots, and it shows in optimization among other things.

If you give Unity to a good coder, I'd say that you can also get a pretty good result from it.
 

MrBuzzKill

Arcane
Joined
Aug 31, 2013
Messages
650
In case it hasn't been posted, here's the results of the survey they posted to get a feel of what the players want

2JVIkt-Py-usFQGvxxU7ls68cpfcpHmO_KjklPfUBSgROLo2bxaRQxApOpNc9_3vsLNUBVx9I6nj733DtQfph9d6KZK-4_LtStj3Kn3yS-vLnU5z6ImlWj6tBZfRUZW8Q00nmAccLUSHXrE8SOXHcd8BBozy4-zaqVeRx2k=s0-d-e1-ft
 

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