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From Software Bloodborne. Discuss or die!

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,781
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Lore question: Does the church assassin ploy also works in the real/waking world, or only in the nightmare? If the later, how did the church managed to prepare such a ploy from inside the nightmare ? Thats kinda crazy isnt it? It would mean the church is not only aware of the Hunter Nightmare but can navigate it and control parts of it. :o


I can't even get through the chapel after the 1st boss of the expansion.
You mean the black and white nuns? If so try aggroing them and running back to the stairs and down to the corridor where you came from. Chances are only the black nun will follow you, then you can pick her alone. After that, the white one is easy.

If you're finding this part difficult, prepare your spirit for Orphan of Kos.. Oh I can't wait.. tee hee hee.
 
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SionIV

Cipher
Patron
Joined
Aug 28, 2015
Messages
590
Just defeated Orphan of Kos. Not due to any skill on my part, that's for sure, it was more like wildly flailing about not knowing what's going on whilst he is going absolutely berserk. Pure luck. I ended the fight with 0 blood vials (and that with the runes equipped to give me 9 extra), 1 bullet, and 1 hit away from death. If I had died then I would probably have hurled my ps4 out of the window without bothering to open it.

The series has nothing more to offer you in terms of challenge. Anything that tries to be harder than Orphan will just be in the blatantly bullshit difficulty territory.

Certain chalice dungeon bosses at depth 5 under the cursed affix.
 

StaticSpine

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 14, 2013
Messages
3,232
Location
Moscow
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Just defeated Orphan of Kos. Not due to any skill on my part, that's for sure, it was more like wildly flailing about not knowing what's going on whilst he is going absolutely berserk. Pure luck. I ended the fight with 0 blood vials (and that with the runes equipped to give me 9 extra), 1 bullet, and 1 hit away from death. If I had died then I would probably have hurled my ps4 out of the window without bothering to open it.
Gentle Player indeed.

Anyway
:excellent:

That one is a really tough boss.
 

Gentle Player

Arcane
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
2,336
Location
Britain
Just defeated Orphan of Kos. Not due to any skill on my part, that's for sure, it was more like wildly flailing about not knowing what's going on whilst he is going absolutely berserk. Pure luck. I ended the fight with 0 blood vials (and that with the runes equipped to give me 9 extra), 1 bullet, and 1 hit away from death. If I had died then I would probably have hurled my ps4 out of the window without bothering to open it.
Gentle Player indeed.

Hah! I took my username from the Arcanum manual, I was playing that at the time I registered here. Seemed appropriate, but it is a bit naff in hindsight. Oh well.
 

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,781
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Heard Gael from DS3 is the new OoK, bringing ruin and rage quits to children around the world. Is it true?

Certain chalice dungeon bosses at depth 5 under the cursed affix.
He said no-bullshity kind of bosses. Cursed defiled chalices are that by definition.

Btw, my 99 arcane "mad professor" char is kicking almighty ass on NG. It's not as OP as in DS games, but it do obviates whole stratches of play, specially those "ray from the eye" and "flying skulls" spells.
(though it did nothing for Orphan of Kos. :negative: )
 

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,781
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Oh fuck, I just had an epiphany during my 4th playthrough!

INSIGHT = PHANTASMS !

YES! You know, that madman's knowledge picture with the little bright worms flowing out of the skull? Those are not symbolic abstract representations of knowledge or something, those are actual invertebrates/worms/phantasms! The same ones seen on hunter tools as augur of ebrietas and empty phantasm shell. In fact, if you take a close look at Blacksky Eye, you will see there are vestiges of the little worm coming from inside the eye! Which means, they - the invertebrates/worms/phantasms - are the responsible for contacting the cosmos and the great old ones (and bringing forth a mini-star to throw at people in case of Blacksky Eye). Which means "Insight" in the game is an actual, concrete thing - the presence or vestiges of these slimey worms inside one's skull! Now, sure, it seems you also gain insight as an abstract thing per se when you first meet some bosses and eldritch things, so it means the stat Insight may represent both your character knowledge of the cosmos AND the presence of these slimeys inside his skull, and maybe one lead to another and vice-versa.

That's fascinating because all this time I thought this were just some abstract/symbolic shit when it's in fact concrete ! And that's what "Eyes on the inside" means in the end, little cosmic inveterbrates inside one's skull!

ce9c949d6c73dbfb889f6036bac022dd.gif


Extrapolating from that, we can understand exactly what the Church experiments on the research hall are about: brain fluid is an attempt to replicate the slimey invertebrates. They fill patients heads with that shit so they can grow "eyes on the inside" and make contact with the cosmos. And they succeeded partially, as proved by Adeline. Also, take a look at the blue alien beings/celestials seen on Forbidden forest, see how similar they are to the bloated head patients? It seems the Church attempted to replicate the celestials they found in the Isz labyrinth and the bloated head people was the result. Some bloated heads even got the powers of the celestials, as shown by the ones in the garden that attack you with laser beams from the hands. Remember, though, that the Hunter nightmare is a mirror of the distant past. In the present the Choir actually made the breakthrough and replicated the celestials perfectly, as can be seen by false Iosefka experiments in the clinic. (a shame that the night of the hunt hapenned just as she/the Choir was about to conclude the experiment ?)

Now some heavier speculation on my part:

If Master Willem is the one searching for "eyes on the inside", the one who led the students to contact the cosmos and achieve partial evolution, as seen on their mutated forms on Byrgenwerth and the lecture building... Laurence is the one who seeked the old blood, the easier path to evolution. Remember the note found on the lecture hall "Master Willem was right. Evolution without courage will be the downfall of our race". The blood path is the lazy one, the one for cowards. You just go to a clinic and infuse some blood and BAM! Youre cured, you live longer, you feel better, you're new. You don't need Insight, and in fact Lawrence skull in the Nightmare doesn't have any "insight" on it. And it was indeed the downfall of our race as the note said, as it brought the downfall of Yharnam. It's interesting how these two paths - Willem and Laurence's - seem opposite to each other, not only from a personal philosophy, but also from a cosmic point of view. This duality is formed on one side by the blood, the Beasts/Beasthood, and the "Paleblood" Great One/Moon Presence. On the other side by Insight, Arcane, Rom, the Celestials, Ebrietas. And perhaps humanity is in the middle, on a neutral point of the spectrum. On the duality Beasthood vs Insight, perhaps the Moon Presence is a Great One whose nature is all instinct, ferociness, hunting, and this puts it naturally against the other Great Ones whose nature is its polar opposite of arcane, discovery, cosmos. And maybe that's exactly what it's contract with Laurence and Gehrman is all about: they bring it the blood it craves, and it helps them with the side-effects of their experiments for evolving the human race. (That is, until Micolash/Mensis fucks it all by invoking a Great Old one and the whole city goes crazy)
 
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SionIV

Cipher
Patron
Joined
Aug 28, 2015
Messages
590
Oh fuck, I just had an epiphany during my 4th playthrough!

INSIGHT = PHANTASMS !

YES! You know, that madman's knowledge picture with the little bright worms flowing out of the skull? Those are not symbolic abstract representations of knowledge or something, those are actual invertebrates/worms/phantasms! The same ones seen on hunter tools as augur of ebrietas and empty phantasm shell. In fact, if you take a close look at Blacksky Eye, you will see there are vestiges of the little worm coming from inside the eye! Which means, they - the invertebrates/worms/phantasms - are the responsible for contacting the cosmos and the great old ones (and bringing forth a mini-star to throw at people in case of Blacksky Eye). Which means "Insight" in the game is an actual, concrete thing - the presence or vestiges of these slimey worms inside one's skull! Now, sure, it seems you also gain insight as an abstract thing per se when you first meet some bosses and eldritch things, so it means the stat Insight may represent both your character knowledge of the cosmos AND the presence of these slimeys inside his skull, and maybe one lead to another and vice-versa.

That's fascinating because all this time I thought this were just some abstract/symbolic shit when it's in fact concrete ! And that's what "Eyes on the inside" means in the end, little cosmic inveterbrates inside one's skull!

ce9c949d6c73dbfb889f6036bac022dd.gif


Extrapolating from that, we can understand exactly what the Church experiments on the research hall are about: brain fluid is an attempt to replicate the slimey invertebrates. They fill patients heads with that shit so they can grow "eyes on the inside" and make contact with the cosmos. And they succeeded partially, as proved by Adeline. Also, take a look at the blue alien beings/celestials seen on Forbidden forest, see how similar they are to the bloated head patients? It seems the Church attempted to replicate the celestials they found in the Isz labyrinth and the bloated head people was the result. Some bloated heads even got the powers of the celestials, as shown by the ones in the garden that attack you with laser beams from the hands. Remember, though, that the Hunter nightmare is a mirror of the distant past. In the present the Choir actually made the breakthrough and replicated the celestials perfectly, as can be seen by false Iosefka experiments in the clinic. (a shame that the night of the hunt hapenned just as she/the Choir was about to conclude the experiment ?)

Now some heavier speculation on my part:

If Master Willem is the one searching for "eyes on the inside", the one who led the students to contact the cosmos and achieve partial evolution, as seen on their mutated forms on Byrgenwerth and the lecture building... Laurence is the one who seeked the old blood, the easier path to evolution. Remember the note found on the lecture hall "Master Willem was right. Evolution without courage will be the downfall of our race". The blood path is the lazy one, the one for cowards. You just go to a clinic and infuse some blood and BAM! Youre cured, you live longer, you feel better, you're new. You don't need Insight, and in fact Lawrence skull in the Nightmare doesn't have any "insight" on it. And it was indeed the downfall of our race as the note said, as it brought the downfall of Yharnam. It's interesting how these two paths - Willem and Laurence's - seem opposite to each other, not only from a personal philosophy, but also from a cosmic point of view. This duality is formed on one side by the blood, the Beasts/Beasthood, and the "Paleblood" Great One/Moon Presence. On the other side by Insight, Arcane, Rom, the Celestials, Ebrietas. And perhaps humanity is in the middle, on a neutral point of the spectrum.

Going back to the duality Beasthood vs Insight, perhaps the Moon Presence is a Great One whose nature is all instinct, ferociness, hunting, and this puts it naturally against the other Great Ones whose nature is its polar opposite of arcane, discovery, cosmos. And maybe that's exactly what it's contract with Laurence and Gehrman is all about: they bring it the blood it craves, and it helps them with the side-effects of their experiments for evolving the human race. (That is, until Micolash/Mensis fucks it all by invoking a Great Old one and the whole city goes crazy)

Welcome to Bloodborne, there is so much hidden in that game, you're only scratching the surface. If you haven't already, I would advice you to look at the lore videos on youtube, there are many interesting theories there.
 

Ivan

Arcane
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
7,487
Location
California
Thoughts after the Old Hunters DLC

It was great to come back to Bloodborne after the tepid Dark Souls 3. I missed the frenetic and lethal combat on display here. I rolled my favorite build again and maintain that the Hunter's Axe is one of the most enjoyable weapons I've ever experienced in any game. I was once again pleased by the onion-layered level design. However, after the warping introduced in Dark Souls I must reiterate just how much they dropped the ball by forcing you to go through two load screens (safe hub) to fast travel. I also don't understand why you can't alter your runes in the gameworld proper.

Anyway, the DLC, it was pretty satisfying. I'm not a huge fan of the game's bosses b/c I feel the combat system shines brightest when managing mobs than on 1 on 1 combat. When I beat Lady Maria on my first try I didn't feel particularly smart, as I did when I bested Fume or Alonne. There were many moments where the camera would become unwieldly when fighting the larger creatures, moments where because of the wonky camera, I would spam some attacks and somehow dodge some of the enemy's. Whatever, the level design was pretty great. I particularly liked the third level, it reminded me the Burg.

*i love that healing through mechanical gameplay is a thing! I was glad to see it in Revengeance and super glad it will most likely be carried forward in the inevitable sequel.
 

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,781
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Who said firearms are useless never did I a proper Bloodtinge build. I've just one-shot defiled watchdog by spam shooting his face out of existence. But the best part is on PvP when folks concentrate on my spear at right hand oblivious that my main weapon actually is the pistol on the left.

A pity Bloodtinge and Arcane builds only shine from the endgame to NG and forward. I bet lots of players gave up on the game thinking it's only Str or Skl builds, and missing the joy of pure Blood/Arc.

Ivan said:
love that healing through mechanical gameplay is a thing! I was glad to see it in Revengeance and super glad it will most likely be carried forward in the inevitable sequel.
Got a beast boy built around the idea of recklessly cutting through mobs high on pellets, while getting hurt and immediately following with healing rallies in a dance of death. Down below on chalice 5 dungeons facing spiders, werewolves and brainsuckers it gets frenetic as hell. It's eldritch Vietnam.

But even if I love this game, I don't want a sequel. Look at what happened to DaS.
 
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Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,781
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Yeah, those 2 sharks are bullshit indeed. Never managed to kill them myself (and never saw the rakuyo cause of that). Fortunately they are optional so just ignore them except if you really want the weapon.
 

Ivan

Arcane
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
7,487
Location
California
finally finished the whole thing. got to Yharnam and everything! Pretty cool fight, particularly since they reused the idea of the Hemwick Witches and gave each its own attack pattern.

Holy hell, that defiled cursed chalice was a rough one! Oddly enough the dog didn't give me that much trouble but Amygdala took me plenty of tries. Awesome experience!
 

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,781
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Curiously, Hemwick Witch is actually fun in NG when it gets more life and stronger spells and pawns. Wonder if that's the intended experience From wanted since the beginning for this boss.
 

sullynathan

Arcane
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
6,473
Location
Not Europe
Curiously, Hemwick Witch is actually fun in NG when it gets more life and stronger spells and pawns. Wonder if that's the intended experience From wanted since the beginning for this boss.
pretty sure it is, a lot of bosses are fun with two people.
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
23,731
Bloodborne, while having the worst PvP, is the best overall game.

Easily the best PvE. This is in-spite of the Chalice Dungeons being somewhat tedious.
 

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,781
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Man, I don't know if BB is the best overall, but I'm damn sure it's combat just feels better than anything in series.

You know when you're a kid and you see the movie hero arming his shotgun and it does that sound TCHUCK-TCHUCK and it's sooooo cool?

Bloodborne is the THUCK-TCHUCK heaven. The trick-weapons transformations going TCHUCK-THUCK and sparks flying everywhere, the quick sidesteps, the flowing cloths, the blood stains on your body, monsters exploding and a gush of wind hitting you... Everything just feels cool as fuck.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,024
Location
Platypus Planet
Bloodborne is def my fav in the series. I just like the combat and feel that the boss design is, on average, more consistent than the Souls games. People complain about build variety but the more I play Bloodborne the less I see that being the case, and each weapon feels truly unique from each other which makes the build variety complaint even less true. My one and only complaint is that I have to run through Chalice Dungeons to get to the bosses. I wouldn't mind if they had just made a boss rush gauntlet instead, because some of the Chalice bosses are pretty neat and you'll be missing out if you don't try them at least once, but it becomes a chore to do it many times over.
 

Gentle Player

Arcane
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
2,336
Location
Britain
Whirligig saw is a very fun weapon to use. Made a strength build on my second playthrough and rushed to that weapon right after killing Vicar Amelia. Bosses which gave me trouble on my first playthrough are annihilated with beast-blood pellets and R1 spam. It was very satisfying to wipe out the Shadows of Yharnam before they even had a chance to transform to their second and third stages.
 

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