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Let's talk about game remasters

Remasters gud?

  • Yes

    Votes: 8 9.6%
  • No

    Votes: 11 13.3%
  • Depends

    Votes: 50 60.2%
  • What can change the nature of a man?

    Votes: 14 16.9%

  • Total voters
    83

Naraya

Arcane
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Messages
1,513
Location
Tuono-Tabr
I mean, it's obvious that this topic is very hot nowadays (and I'm sure it's going to be even more in the coming years).

The main question is - are you genuinely interested in game remasters? If so, what would constitute a well-made remaster, ie. what would make it worthwile to you to pay money for it (and how much money, though I guess that's a too subjective matter). Is it graphics (eg. FF9, even though I think the new sprites look worse than originals), quality of life features (eg. BG saga and I guess PS:T), new content (BG), something else...?

I started thinking about this topic some time ago and got back to it with PS:T EE on the horizon and the amount of discussion it sparked. Yesterday I read on reddit that it's quite possible for KotOR 2 to be remastered and I thought - "OK, but why?". I personally don't care much about graphics in games and I don't think such a remaster would bring anything worthwhile to the game, something that is not possible using mods - which are *free*.

A very important point is that the quality of many mods for games is stunning. From the top of my head, I played the crap out of modded:
- Quake (projects like Arcane Dimensions, FTE, DarkPlaces)
- Freelancer
- Deus Ex
- System Shock 2
- KotOR 1 / 2
- Thief
- OpenRA
- UFO (OpenXCom)
- Baldur's Gate 1 / 2 (I bought EE's in the end though for QoL features however - deal with it)
- Skyrim
- Oblivion
- PS:T (playing now)
- and many more...

and in most of them I found the modded experience to be awesome.

I'm interested in your opinion on this subject. Sometimes I feel that people are butthurt for no reason...
 

octavius

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
19,184
Location
Bjørgvin
XCom sure benefited from a remake, because of squashed bugs, improved UI and larger screen resolutions.

Games like Baldur's Gate and Oblivion surely benefited from mods, while Thief 1 and 2 benefited from user made maps.
The only benefit from the BG1 remake seems to be that Pause and Unpause are now two different buttons and that the K&J vs X&M showdown now can occur in modded BG1, but at the cost of new companions made for "a modern audience".

Remakes are good, as long as you remake the games that really benefit from it. Would love to see a remake of Darklands, for example, or Ultima Underworld with higher resolutions.
 
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Mustawd

Guest
Like you said, you played the games modded. Was it necessary to buy the game all over again? Were you still able to enjoy the original game without the mods?

The question to this is yes, of course. EE and Remasters or whatever sometimes change the gameplay of a game entirely because they remaster the original in a different engine (Wasn't BG EE using the BG2 engine? Same with Homeworld remastered). And in that case it's less about modding/improving the experience than it is about making more monies for the remastering studio. But even if they use the same engine, many times devs feel the need to change the game drastically. Look at Div: OS and its EE. The EE is fully voiced, AND they changed the voice actor of the cheese vendor, which for a lot of ppl was jarring.

Also, there is the fact that some games don't really need a "remaster". Something like Wasteland 1 would be interesting remastered and or completely redone in a modern engine. But PST? I dunno. Seems like a waste of time and effort to me.

But really the biggest issue I have with remastered editions is the inability to purchase the original. Or at the very least to make it difficult to get the original. If I buy Div:OS don't I HAVE to purchase the EE and request the original?
 

Lord Rocket

Erudite
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
1,089
updated engines = less hassle to play the game in many cases, improved visuals in some cases, sparks more modding effort in a few cases. Doom in particular exemplifies all of these.
remasters = routinely pointless cash grabs. Can sometimes make things much worse; eg. gigs and gigs of those ugly fucking graphics in the Monkey Island remaster. I also gather they fucked up the Homeworld 1 portion of the rerelease, but I haven't played that one.

If devs were serious about serving the fans they'd put the originals up for sale and release the engine source code for obsessives to sort out on their behalf (ie. the old code is free but art = $$$).
 

Jokzore

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 18, 2017
Messages
623
The biggest advantage of a remaster is that it enables you to play an old game on a new system, but GOG already does that free of charge. Remasters are (mostly) just cash grabs that pray on peoples nostalgia and inability to mod. You'd be amazed at how many '' gamers '' don't even know that the games you just listed are moddable, doubt a lot of em even know what a mod is.

All of that said i enjoyed the hell out of RE1 Remake and it motivated me to play 4-5 more games in the series , so i suppose its a good way to get new people on board. Without the REmake i never would have even considered playing the 96 original , I'm allergic to those polygon graphics.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Is it graphics (eg. FF9, even though I think the new sprites look worse than originals)
FF IX was remastered? With sprites? Are you talking about FF VI, perhaps?

Graphical enhancements are nice... especially when they preserve the ability to play the original if I don't find them to my taste, but I also appreciate compatibility with modern hardware and continued support. Depends on what the team does with the title, I guess.

PST used to crash on Nvidia cards whenever spells were cast, and no, a simple ddraw fix solution didn't work for me, I either had to fiddle with MS compatibility toolkit, or run it in a window with D3DWindower. It is nice not to deal with shit like that.

I wouldn't mind, say, a remaster of the Longest Journey since it looks like shit with software rendering, and GPU rendering options do not work properly on Nvidia cards, again. Someone claims to have made AA work on Nvidia... in 2016. I have not tested it yet.

Outcast had this problem when if your processor was too fast, you could have had trouble with movement (immediately noticeable when riding twon-has). You had to slow the CPU down manually. Grim Fandango had a similar problem. The re-releases fixed both.

Sometimes though, the 'definitive versions' end up worse than originals in certain ways. I will never forget how they mutilated the corpse of Broken Sword with ugly art and stupid out-of-place-and-context puzzles, and cut out several scenes (telephone conversations got the worst of it) plus most of the fail conditions. Can't have the modern players die if they can't think of a solution quickly when a gun is pointed at their head, can we? Blegh! At least GOG still allows you to play the original should you buy it, the Steam version is a lost cause. Or take Baldur's Gate where they remade key cutscenes, ran out of time/money, and just cut out the rest of them because they didn't fit the style. This kind of behavior is disrespectful to the customers and is not to be supported.

As long as they don't change it for the worse somehow, I don't see a reason not to have those available.
 
Last edited:

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,523
Not much to discuss here. Like most things in life, remasters could be cool if someone actually put any decent effort into them. I'd be definitely willing to pay good money for nicely remade favorites from the nineties, with improved UI and modern day graphical capabilities.

But pretty much every remade game I tried was a rather effortless cashgrab. And the worse trend is that they often re-release game with major content missing, like HoMM III HD for example - what the hell, where's the point.
 

Mustawd

Guest
All of that said i enjoyed the hell out of RE1 Remake and it motivated me to play 4-5 more games in the series , so i suppose its a good way to get new people on board. Without the REmake i never would have even considered playing the 96 original , I'm allergic to those polygon graphics.

RE1 is kinda not easy on the eyes. RE2 is still ok.
 

MrBuzzKill

Arcane
Joined
Aug 31, 2013
Messages
650
Remasters are only good if either of the following is true
1) they're simply modernizations of games that look, play, and sound exactly the same, but are made to run on modern hardware WITH NO ADDITIONAL SHITTY CONTENT
2) content is added, but only if it's by the same studio/people that made the original game
 

Naraya

Arcane
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Messages
1,513
Location
Tuono-Tabr
Is it graphics (eg. FF9, even though I think the new sprites look worse than originals)
FF IX was remastered? With sprites? Are you talking about FF VI, perhaps?
I meant this: http://store.steampowered.com/app/377840/
What happened is I played it on the emulator and I loved it - then I saw the Steam remaster and I thought it looked way worse (the atmosphere was all gone). I mean, just look at the third screenshot, how jarring Zidane looks.

Also this is a very valid point:
You'd be amazed at how many '' gamers '' don't even know that the games you just listed are moddable, doubt a lot of em even know what a mod is.

I watch a lot of Twitch streams so I am perfectly aware of the fact how clueless the so-called "gamers" are with regard to such knowledge, unfortunately :(
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Ah, I see. But those are 3d character models, not sprites. And I don't think they were altered too much?
What happened is I played it on the emulator and I loved it - then I saw the Steam remaster and I thought it looked way worse (the atmosphere was all gone). I mean, just look at the third screenshot, how jarring Zidane looks.
I mean, compare.
25074-final-fantasy-ix-playstation-screenshot-one-of-the-many-mini.jpg

ss_a677dfadb3da854598b766705490da6c93a39c2d.1920x1080.jpg
And
25063-final-fantasy-ix-playstation-screenshot-the-sign-means-you.jpg

ss_fe4fbd8ac03bd989739f3ccff2a19aba91b4d883.1920x1080.jpg
They just sharpened the models, which... may look a little different back-to-back with pixellated backgrounds, but I can't say they look any worse.
 

Cudgel

Learned
Patron
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
275
Location
Inside
I think the biggest problem is when remasters mix themselves up with remakes. Be one or the other but don't mash up the two ideas's i.e. things like changing the engine or adding extra (unneeded) content. Its like having a fanfic writer add a scene in Pyscho where he is given a medal for wanting to be a woman and then marries Hitchcock or playing Warhammer 40k 2nd edition rules with 3rd edition army books.
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
2,951
I'd cheerfully commit murder for a proper Bloodlines remaster / remake / enhanced / whatever. Put it into latest engine version, fix all those things that modders (no matter how obsessed dedicated) simply can't fix, smooth out those clunky animations, improve some texture work. That would be enough already. Any more than that (like fixing the end-game) would require consultation with original devs at minimum, but could be a welcome bonus.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
5,871
The only, ONLY remake I can think of that improved on the original with no caveats or downsides is Resident Evil. It's superior to the original in every single way and still maintains everything that made the original charming (with added options for people who prefer playing with the original control style, etc.)

Most of the time "remakes" and "remastered editions" are cash grabs with no significant improvements and often with downgrades in key areas (i.e. Silent Hill disaster)

I agree that some exceptional games with archaic interfaces COULD benefit from good remakes (like Darklands), but I don't think there's an actual market for that. Publishers just want to make a quick buck for minimal effort.
 

PlanHex

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Messages
2,053
Location
Copenhagen, Denmark
Some are good.
I especially like it when they allow you to play the original version if you so choose, like all the LucasArts remakes. Feels good to hear Dominic Armato as Guybrush in the first two Monkey Islands, while you can still play with the original music/art if you want. Letting you pick the controls for Grim Fandango was nice too. The recent Full Throttle one seemed kinda pointless to me, but at least the game is finally available to buy online.

Same with this thing: http://www.thedragonstrap.com/
Though they're being slow with the PC port.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,164
All of the remasters i've seen so far have been shit. I'm not opposed to idea in principle but can't trust modern devs to even get a simple face lift let alone changes to the game itself. Fuck remasters.
 

Naraya

Arcane
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Messages
1,513
Location
Tuono-Tabr
Hmm. I think we should paint a clear line between what's a remaster and what's a remake. For example, I consider neither OpenXCom nor QuakeSpasm remasters - for me they are more like remakes. I think one of the features specific in general to remasters is the price.

Then I agree that basically all remasters are shitty cashgrabs that try to pull people's nostalgia strings.
 

Neanderthal

Arcane
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Messages
3,626
Location
Granbretan
I thought Witcher devs did it about right wi their Enhanced Editions, shit loads o improvements an new content, free to pre existin owners, an spank loads o free stuff. If you're not gonna match that, don't call it an enhanced edition, its an overpriced mod compilation wi idiot friendly features.
 

DavidBVal

4 Dimension Games
Patron
Developer
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Messages
2,994
Location
Madrid
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Adapting better to modern screen resolutions and aspect ratios, improving compatibility, stability, etc is right.

Adding or "improving" content sucks. If you think the classics were not good enough, go make a better game, ffs.
 

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