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Giving PoE another chance

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Shining Beacons are not unlimited though. Unless you rest after every encounter. So I don't really like that playstyle either.
However being able to priest-nova when you really need it is certainly nice.

For regular fights I mainly use Inspiring Radiance and Empowered Painful Interdiction on my Priest, which are per encounter. Nowadays also Dire Blessing, as now I have it per encounter as well.
For slightly tougher encounters also Devotions for the Faithful for +20 Accuracy. Rest as needed.
 
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Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
True, but it is an effective means to clear most trash packs, especially with the vanilla content. Plus, spell mastery with Shining Beacon goes a long way.

On harder fights you have plenty of options for a Priest. For example, on the Twin Dragon fight, I used my Priest to clear most of the smaller enemies via Shining Beacon and Divine Storm, with the added benefit that those spells can interrupt. Afterwards, I shifted my priest to buffs and triage efforts against the dragons. Essentially, you have a single class that can dish out a lot of damage and keep relevant in longer fights. In comparison, I believe Cipher and Fighters are weaker choices.
 
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vivec

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I have never played PoTD, which I must emphasise is de facto punish yourself model.
 
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Sacred82

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I'm planning on playing three times now finally (I never got farther than Twin Elms before restarting).

I have to give it to Sawyer that the party/ character building is more interesting than I initially thought, even though some things seem obvious (e.g. Int and Mig are obvious on a priest, don't want to dump Res because they're second line and don't want to dump Dex too much as you need to get that heal up fast when you need it, so not a lot of options). I'm building my parties around the paladin's focus. Right now I have a zealos focus party consisting of:

Human figher, max Mig, some Res, some Per, weapon spec: Knight, one-handed

coastal Aumaua barbarian, max Mig, max Con, dumped Dex, some Per, weapon prof: Adventurer, two-handed

Hearth Orlan kind wayfarer, max Mig, max Per, dumped Dex, max Int, weapon prof: Soldier (eventually Tall Grass)

Island Aumaua priest of Magran, max Mig, some Int, some Per, lots of arquebuses

Wood Elf wizard, max Mig, Per and Int, some Dex, picks alternate between Blast and Arcane Veil

Boreal Dwarf cipher, max Mig, Per and Int, blunderbuss

The game is definitely better for procrastinating than for actually playing, but that may have been the intention all along.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I'm planning on playing three times now finally (I never got farther than Twin Elms before restarting).

I have to give it to Sawyer that the party/ character building is more interesting than I initially thought, even though some things seem obvious (e.g. Int and Mig are obvious on a priest, don't want to dump Res because they're second line and don't want to dump Dex too much as you need to get that heal up fast when you need it, so not a lot of options). I'm building my parties around the paladin's focus. Right now I have a zealos focus party consisting of:

Human figher, max Mig, some Res, some Per, weapon spec: Knight, one-handed

coastal Aumaua barbarian, max Mig, max Con, dumped Dex, some Per, weapon prof: Adventurer, two-handed

Hearth Orlan kind wayfarer, max Mig, max Per, dumped Dex, max Int, weapon prof: Soldier (eventually Tall Grass)

Island Aumaua priest of Magran, max Mig, some Int, some Per, lots of arquebuses

If you want my advice, I wouldn't dump Dex on two-handed skirmishers. Base is okayish, 3 is painfully slow (+lots of interrupts).
Counter-intuitively, the characters which CAN dump Dex easiest are dual-wielders, as they get huge recovery reductions from their fighting style (-50% base, -20% talent).
I'd say Dex is also really important on a Priest, as you want those protections/buffs/debuffs ASAP.

Plus you really want solid Int on the Barbarian, since it determines the Carnage radius (your bread-and-butter skill). Max it if possible.
I'd also reconsider the weapon focus. Estocs are okay and Blade of the Endless Paths is solid, but late and I'd rather rock the Overbearing Annihilating Hours of St. Rumbalt and Draining Wounding Tidefall. Soulbond weapons don't really factor into the equation, as they use whichever focus you have. In any case you can buy the Forgemaster's Gloves from the Crucible Knights and rock with Firebrand 3x/rest (also uses whichever focus you have). Maybe 6x/rest if you use Hellwax Mold :).

I hope you have the White March. It has some great content.
 
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Repulsive

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Gave it another chance after the TTON disappointment, it wasn't half bad. I even find the writing superior.
 

Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
I have never played PoTD, which I must emphasise is de facto punish yourself model.
Honestly, I do not believe PotD is that big of a leap compared to hard. The initial levels are less forgiving, but once you reach level 5 it becomes manageable. Once you hit level 8, you begin to cruise through fights with some exceptions. Granted, some classes begin to fall behind on PotD (Cipher and Fighter in my opinion).


I'm planning on playing three times now finally (I never got farther than Twin Elms before restarting).

I have to give it to Sawyer that the party/ character building is more interesting than I initially thought, even though some things seem obvious (e.g. Int and Mig are obvious on a priest, don't want to dump Res because they're second line and don't want to dump Dex too much as you need to get that heal up fast when you need it, so not a lot of options). I'm building my parties around the paladin's focus. Right now I have a zealos focus party consisting of:

Human figher, max Mig, some Res, some Per, weapon spec: Knight, one-handed

coastal Aumaua barbarian, max Mig, max Con, dumped Dex, some Per, weapon prof: Adventurer, two-handed

Hearth Orlan kind wayfarer, max Mig, max Per, dumped Dex, max Int, weapon prof: Soldier (eventually Tall Grass)

Island Aumaua priest of Magran, max Mig, some Int, some Per, lots of arquebuses

Wood Elf wizard, max Mig, Per and Int, some Dex, picks alternate between Blast and Arcane Veil

Boreal Dwarf cipher, max Mig, Per and Int, blunderbuss

The game is definitely better for procrastinating than for actually playing, but that may have been the intention all along.
With the Aumaua priest, I would max both might and int, and you can afford to drop resolve and con (I would still keep perception high if possible, but dex also is great for Priests). Keep in mind that Priest receives buffs that either increase accuracy, perception, and resolve, and so you can use the buffs mitigate average resolve and/or perception. The Priest will start out kind of weak, but it picks up after level 5 in my opinion.

I also would make the Priest the main character to take advantage of disposition and holy radiance, which can instant kill many vessel enemies.
 
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Sacred82

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If you want my advice, I wouldn't dump Dex on two-handed skirmishers. Base is okayish, 3 is painfully slow (+lots of interrupts).
Counter-intuitively, the characters which CAN dump Dex easiest are dual-wielders, as they get huge recovery reductions from their fighting style (-50% base, -20% talent).
I'd say Dex is also really important on a Priest, as you want those protections/buffs/debuffs ASAP.

I haven't done actual testing, but from what I've seen, the difference between two-handed weapon wielders in brigandine with 10 Dex or 3 Dex seemed pretty minor. This should be even more true for the Barb as he effectively gets more attacks (if there are more enemies). Minimum Dex on a one-handed weapon wielder proved to be a very bad idea though, especially on a medium-accuracy paladin with a shield, she didn't do any damage worth counting.

Plus you really want solid Int on the Barbarian, since it determines the Carnage radius (your bread-and-butter skill). Max it if possible.
I'd also reconsider the weapon focus. Estocs are okay and Blade of the Endless Paths is solid, but late and I'd rather rock the Overbearing Annihilating Hours of St. Rumbalt and Draining Wounding Tidefall. Soulbond weapons don't really factor into the equation, as they use whichever focus you have. In any case you can buy the Forgemaster's Gloves from the Crucible Knights and rock with Firebrand 3x/rest (also uses whichever focus you have). Maybe 6x/rest if you use Hellwax Mold :).

Yeah I tried not to rely on meta-game knowledge of items (apart from early items that are stuck in my memory). I couldn't avoid learning about Tall Grass as it is all over the forums though.

I hope you have the White March. It has some great content.

I do. Never actually made it there before.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Two-handers actually have the same recovery as large one-handers (such as sabers, battle-axes). So if you hated the 3 Dex Paladin....
Blood Thirst can help, but you need to first start killing the enemies and with 3 Dex it might take a while.
Frenzy will help too, but it only goes that far.

I actually started my 2handed Barb with low Dex, but I respecced him to dump Res and raise Dex to..12?
Res at 3 hurts your concentration and you may get interrupted a lot. But if you let your tank charge first, it is not a big problem usually.
 
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vivec

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You know what bothers me the most? It's that now tanking isn't a tactic, it's the default. Fuck these games. At least in IE games, you did not have to rely on these degenerate practices. And I did not even like IE games combat :(. Since Blackguards and AoD I have not played a game with good combat design.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
In PoE a tank is more of a... quality of life role. Definitely not necessary. You can CC enemies, even turn them on themselves, as you noted.
You can hold chokepoints. You can distract enemies with summons. You can kite.
You can even make the whole party tanky-ish. Or have every front-liner be aggressive.
But it's easier to specialize in roles.
 
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Sacred82

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Two-handers actually have the same recovery as large one-handers (such as sabers, battle-axes). So if you hated the 3 Dex Paladin....
Blood Thirst can help, but you need to first start killing the enemies and with 3 Dex it might take a while.
Frenzy will help too, but it only goes that far.

With two-handed style, he has much higher damage per hit than pally used to have tho. Not counting Carnage. I think it will be fine. At any rate I love the max fortitude on a Coastal Aumaua though. I would have put the surplus points from Dex into Int but then I'd have shit awful reflex saves.
 
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vivec

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In PoE a tank is more of a... quality of life role. Definitely not necessary. You can CC enemies, even turn them on themselves, as you noted.
You can hold chokepoints. You can distract enemies with summons. You can kite.
You can even make the whole party tanky-ish. Or have every front-liner be aggressive.
But it's easier to specialize in roles.
Hmm. I felt the tank was absolutely necessary. In fact, without it I could not spam spells from the back. I have no clue how you can do without them.
 

Parabalus

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Hmm. I felt the tank was absolutely necessary. In fact, without it I could not spam spells from the back. I have no clue how you can do without them.

You can play without tanks just fine even on PotD. On the lower difficulties it's probably easier without a tank since you kill stuff faster, 6 ranged parties are an easy example.
 
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Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
In PoE a tank is more of a... quality of life role. Definitely not necessary. You can CC enemies, even turn them on themselves, as you noted.
You can hold chokepoints. You can distract enemies with summons. You can kite.
You can even make the whole party tanky-ish. Or have every front-liner be aggressive.
But it's easier to specialize in roles.
Hmm. I felt the tank was absolutely necessary. In fact, without it I could not spam spells from the back. I have no clue how you can do without them.

A tank is useful, but you can get away with summoned creatures (Chanter) or crowd control spells. For example, Druids have a relatively early spell called Returning Storm that AoE stuns enemies. I brought Hiravias just to spam Returning Storm and he could lock down a decent sized group of enemies.

Other obvious alternatives include Wizard spells that freeze/paralyze or Cipher mind fuckery (I find this one less reliable).
 
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Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Why the retarded rating for Parabalus? He speaks the truth.
And actually spamming spells from the back is not necessary for success either.

With two-handed style, he has much higher damage per hit than pally used to have tho. Not counting Carnage. I think it will be fine. At any rate I love the max fortitude on a Coastal Aumaua though. I would have put the surplus points from Dex into Int but then I'd have shit awful reflex saves.

I hate to tell you this after you mentioned loving high Fortitude... but my advice would be to lower Con to mid levels and raise Int instead. Barbarians have lots of Health and Endurance anyway, but it is Carnage what really makes them special. You want the class-defining skill to have good range. Otherwise you might indeed play as a gimp fighter.
Alternatively you could even (gasp) lower Might. If you have high accuracy and Crit a lot, maybe use an annihilating weapon (+50% crit damage), maybe got flanking bonuses from Apprentice Sneak attack and camp Survival bonuses, maybe get the Doemenel crit bonus, the extra 3% of damage from each point of Might isn't THAT great (it's not multiplied by those modifiers). Although Carnage hits do 2/3 of regular damage, so high damage is extra useful, also to punch trough enemy DR.
And Might also affects healing effects. Well, it's a tough one. Guess I'd lower Con & Res after all :P
Coastal Aumaua has a big bonus to defense against some of the most annoying status effects, Prone (damn ogres!) & Stun (damn... nearly everyone), so having slightly lower Fort shouldn't be a big deal.
 
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Sacred82

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I hate to tell you this after you mentioned loving high Fortitude... but my advice would be to lower Con to mid levels and raise Int instead. Barbarians have lots of Health and Endurance anyway, but it is Carnage what really makes them special. You want the class-defining skill to have good range. Otherwise you might indeed play as a gimp fighter.

True on the gimp fighter. Although higher health is nice with the Con bonus, but may be offset by lower deflection.

Alternatively you could even (gasp) lower Might. If you have high accuracy and Crit a lot, maybe use an annihilating weapon (+50% crit damage), maybe got flanking bonuses from Apprentice Sneak attack and camp Survival bonuses, maybe get the Doemenel crit bonus, the extra 3% of damage from each point of Might isn't THAT great (it's not multiplied by those modifiers). Although Carnage hits do 2/3 of regular damage, so high damage is extra useful, also to punch trough enemy DR.
And Might also affects healing effects. Well, it's a tough one. Guess I'd lower Con & Res after all :P

Low Res barb sounded like a bad idea... I suppose you have to heavily CC to make that barb survivable? Also, I thought Might only affects active healing?

Coastal Aumaua has a big bonus to defense against some of the most annoying status effects, Prone (damn ogres!) & Stun (damn... nearly everyone), so having slightly lower Fort shouldn't be a big deal.

It's a lot of fun when you get up instantly because Prone attacks only graze you, all the time.
 

Haplo

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Alternatively you could even (gasp) lower Might. If you have high accuracy and Crit a lot, maybe use an annihilating weapon (+50% crit damage), maybe got flanking bonuses from Apprentice Sneak attack and camp Survival bonuses, maybe get the Doemenel crit bonus, the extra 3% of damage from each point of Might isn't THAT great (it's not multiplied by those modifiers). Although Carnage hits do 2/3 of regular damage, so high damage is extra useful, also to punch trough enemy DR.
And Might also affects healing effects. Well, it's a tough one. Guess I'd lower Con & Res after all :P

Low Res barb sounded like a bad idea... I suppose you have to heavily CC to make that barb survivable? Also, I thought Might only affects active healing?

Not really. I mean if you for example make your fighter a bit more tankish, you can send him first into the fray and the nastiests attacks will focus on him. If you engage with barbarian once the enemies have already chosen their targets, the risk is low, even without cc. Then you've got the on-crit effects like Overbearing (prone - hello Hours of St. Rumbaldt or the Tall Grass you mentioned) and Stunning which, when you really stack those buffs and debuffs and use Dire Blessing, will trigger all the time - in carnage aoe. When prone they can't really hurt you, can they?
You can also use Tidefall, which drains enemy endurance on hit, healing your barb - again, in an aoe. Or just use Forgemaster's Gloves to summon Firebrand and have everyone around you die before they can hurt you.
Low deflection isn't really a serious problem with a Barbarian's Health and Endurance pool. Low Concentration might be - if enemies keep interrupting his actions. But again, the easiest solution is to attack them while they focus on someone else. Then there is the Priest lvl 1 spell Holy Meditation which helps a lot. There are even gloves which may cast this buff on your party when hit.

Might helps with most healing. Helps with potions, with Savage Defiance, with Veteran's Recovery, perhaps most importantly helps with Shod-In-Faith boots, which are usually the only healing I need in most encounters (also sold by Crucible Knights). Oh and it also helps with Wound Binding if you pick it. I'm currently considering it. It's not like I have many great picks left and I like to go as far between rests as possible.
Granted, I play with a Moon Godlike, so Silver Tide healing also helps, but I don't think it's essential. You could substitute Veteran's Recovery for that. Sometimes I regret not picking the Coastal Aumaua :) Status effects are pretty much the only thing that kills me.
 
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Sacred82

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a Firebrand specific question, I know it can make use of any weapon prof (another spoiler I picked up), but does it also get the bonus from two-handed style?
 

KazikluBey

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I'm playing PotD now, and I don't see why you wouldn't. Not only are there more enemies, they have +15 accuracy and defenses and use all their abilities. This changes the approach to character builds and combat quite a bit and buffs, debuffs, and consumables become much more important. Either you play PoE on PotD, or you go Story Mode (actually don't, the story isn't good enough). A lot of the original game is still somewhat pedestrian, but the encounters in White March are much improved.
 

Parabalus

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I never played without, it's cool. The injury you get depends on the damage that knocked you out so they can make you very vulnerable forcing a change of tactics.
 
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Sacred82

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The injury you get depends on the damage that knocked you out so they can make you very vulnerable forcing a change of tactics.

k, so you'd still profit from high fortitude. Good to know.
 

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