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Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Thread

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,124
Yeah, I think they've had the worst launch window since the times when V:TMB launched together with Half-Life 2. And the funniest part is, at first it looked like a pretty decent date, usually AAA games announced for Q1 are coming out late March. And I certainly have never seen this many well-received AAA blockbusters to come out in this time of year, and a lot of them sort of RPG-lite too.
 

Chris Avelltwo

Scholar
Joined
Mar 3, 2017
Messages
678
Complaining about boredom in T:TON opening, when Pillars has you finding the berreis for your explosive diarrhea as plot hook.

The intro quest isn't just about searching for berries, and you know it. Saying the intro to POE is just about finding a berry is like saying the intro to Fallout: New Vegas is just about a mailman trying to deliver a poker chip. This might seem boring and mundane, but then some Deus Ex Machina shit happens and everything gets turned upside down. The Springberry quite possibly saved your character's life in a way besides treating your diarrhea, because it got you out of the camp so you aren't there when the Glanfathans murder the shit out of everyone.

If you want a good example of an intro quest done wrong, look at FO2's unavoidable temple tutorial where you just fight some ants and then talk to a guy at the end. The springberry quest serves as a tutorial to new players, but it does in a way that feels organic and not contrived. You're sick, and a sick person needs to be healed, and in the process of searching that out catastrophe strikes, and then you're swept into something far more significant than mere diarrhea. The fate of the entire world now lies on your shoulders. Cilant Lis is also a temple tutorial of sorts, but I feel it is a temple tutorial done right in comparison to FO2's temple tutorial. It teaches you the game mechanics organically, and its more involved than just fighting ants and talking to some dude. FNV's gecko shooting tutorial similarly feels organic and teaches you the basics of the game, but it doesn't feel like a chore, and if you want to you can even avoid it entirely. I really do appreciate Josh Sawyer's approach to game design, by simultaneously providing a helpful tutorial to those who might need it, but doing it in a way that doesn't feel contrived. Most game designers fail in this respect. But no, its never just about a springberry or a pokerchip. Those are simply Macguffins, and every game has them, but not every game handles them properly.

That being said, I never felt boredom playing PoE. There's tons of exciting combat to be had, and unlike T:ToN you can't be a hippie peacenik and avoid all of it. Heavy reading of text walls can get tiresome, but at least PoE isn't just exclusively that... it is an actual game instead of just a glorified Visual Novel. PoE also doesn't try to shove an SJW political agenda down your throat either, because you actually have the option of playing as a Meadow human if you so choose. This is sadly not the case in T:ToN where apparently a billion years into the future the Meadow humans are all extinct. I know Josh often gets slammed on here for being an "SJW" himself, but I daresay he isn't as extreme in his views as Monte Cook/Colin McComb/etc. Even if he were, it seems like he is perfectly capable of separating his personal views from the characters and factions he designs. Monte/Colin/etc. were unable to separate their politics from their writing, and that's why T:ToN is what it is. But Josh Sawyer on the other hand is able to create such deep and interesting yet un-SJW characters as Edward Sallow, Joshua Graham, Father Elijah, Thaos ix Arkannon, etc. as well as the factions they represent. Caesar's Legion, for example, with its misogyny and slavery and whatnot is quite possibly the most anti-SJW faction that has ever been devised in any video game ever. It is hard to fathom that such a faction was concocted by an "SJW", and yet this is indeed the case. But you really don't see anything quite like that in T:ToN. The closest equivalent would probably be the Tabaht which were destroyed thousands of years before the game is set. So T:ToN doesn't have the clash of ideologies that F:NV or Pillars, or any truly good game should have.

In a way, I'd say T:ToN is like the polar opposite of Tyranny in the sense that Tyranny is set in a world where "evil" has already won, and T:ToN is set in a world where SJWs have already won. How game developers out in California seem to define "evil" is anything that is not SJW, so to them Terratus under Kyros is an "evil" place, but T:ToN is a "good" place. The grand struggle in T:ToN is not between "good and evil", but between the Changing God and the First Castoff and their supporters. But this is kinda like the 2008 DNC between Obama and Hillary, where regardless of who won the result is still SJWism regardless.

Many people seem to consider "The Genocide" to be one of - if not the - most interesting characters in the entire T:ToN game, but they have a hard time articulating why. I'll tell you the reason: It is because he is the sole surviving non-SJW character in the entire game. Every other non-SJW has been genocided by multiculturalism and globalization. The Genocide alone stands in defiance of the SJW dystopia Monte Cook/Colin McComb have created. I'm sure this character was deliberately written to be deplorable, but instead he is the most sympathetic character in the game to non-SJWs. Many people wish he could be taken along as a companion, but that would directly contradict Colin and Monte's vision for this character. You are MEANT to hate him, and if you don't, then you are a bad, bad person and guilty of a grievous thought crime. "The Genocide" is essentially Trump and everything he represents, so to an SJW he is the greatest evil in the entire game - far worse than the Sorrow, or the Changing God, or anything else. Who knows, beneath all that armor he might even be white. The very last of his kind.
 

Quillon

Arcane
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
5,214
Dude you wrote 5 extensive paragraphs in a response to one sentence that I produced while doing the number two.

:didntreadlol:

I read it & I now have a wholly different perspective looking at life.

Josh Sawyer on the other hand is able to create such deep and interesting yet un-SJW characters as Edward Sallow, Joshua Graham, Father Elijah, Thaos ix Arkannon, etc.

arkannon...ark-a-nnon... arcade gannon!
 

Commissar Draco

Codexia Comrade Colonel Commissar
Patron
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
20,856
Location
Привислинский край
Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
Complaining about boredom in T:TON opening, when Pillars has you finding the berreis for your explosive diarrhea as plot hook.

The intro quest isn't just about searching for berries, and you know it. Saying the intro to POE is just about finding a berry is like saying the intro to Fallout: New Vegas is just about a mailman trying to deliver a poker chip. This might seem boring and mundane, but then some Deus Ex Machina shit happens and everything gets turned upside down. The Springberry quite possibly saved your character's life in a way besides treating your diarrhea, because it got you out of the camp so you aren't there when the Glanfathans murder the shit out of everyone.

If you want a good example of an intro quest done wrong, look at FO2's unavoidable temple tutorial where you just fight some ants and then talk to a guy at the end. The springberry quest serves as a tutorial to new players, but it does in a way that feels organic and not contrived. You're sick, and a sick person needs to be healed, and in the process of searching that out catastrophe strikes, and then you're swept into something far more significant than mere diarrhea. The fate of the entire world now lies on your shoulders. Cilant Lis is also a temple tutorial of sorts, but I feel it is a temple tutorial done right in comparison to FO2's temple tutorial. It teaches you the game mechanics organically, and its more involved than just fighting ants and talking to some dude. FNV's gecko shooting tutorial similarly feels organic and teaches you the basics of the game, but it doesn't feel like a chore, and if you want to you can even avoid it entirely. I really do appreciate Josh Sawyer's approach to game design, by simultaneously providing a helpful tutorial to those who might need it, but doing it in a way that doesn't feel contrived. Most game designers fail in this respect. But no, its never just about a springberry or a pokerchip. Those are simply Macguffins, and every game has them, but not every game handles them properly.

That being said, I never felt boredom playing PoE. There's tons of exciting combat to be had, and unlike T:ToN you can't be a hippie peacenik and avoid all of it. Heavy reading of text walls can get tiresome, but at least PoE isn't just exclusively that... it is an actual game instead of just a glorified Visual Novel. PoE also doesn't try to shove an SJW political agenda down your throat either, because you actually have the option of playing as a Meadow human if you so choose. This is sadly not the case in T:ToN where apparently a billion years into the future the Meadow humans are all extinct. I know Josh often gets slammed on here for being an "SJW" himself, but I daresay he isn't as extreme in his views as Monte Cook/Colin McComb/etc. Even if he were, it seems like he is perfectly capable of separating his personal views from the characters and factions he designs. Monte/Colin/etc. were unable to separate their politics from their writing, and that's why T:ToN is what it is. But Josh Sawyer on the other hand is able to create such deep and interesting yet un-SJW characters as Edward Sallow, Joshua Graham, Father Elijah, Thaos ix Arkannon, etc. as well as the factions they represent. Caesar's Legion, for example, with its misogyny and slavery and whatnot is quite possibly the most anti-SJW faction that has ever been devised in any video game ever. It is hard to fathom that such a faction was concocted by an "SJW", and yet this is indeed the case. But you really don't see anything quite like that in T:ToN. The closest equivalent would probably be the Tabaht which were destroyed thousands of years before the game is set. So T:ToN doesn't have the clash of ideologies that F:NV or Pillars, or any truly good game should have.

In a way, I'd say T:ToN is like the polar opposite of Tyranny in the sense that Tyranny is set in a world where "evil" has already won, and T:ToN is set in a world where SJWs have already won. How game developers out in California seem to define "evil" is anything that is not SJW, so to them Terratus under Kyros is an "evil" place, but T:ToN is a "good" place. The grand struggle in T:ToN is not between "good and evil", but between the Changing God and the First Castoff and their supporters. But this is kinda like the 2008 DNC between Obama and Hillary, where regardless of who won the result is still SJWism regardless.

Many people seem to consider "The Genocide" to be one of - if not the - most interesting characters in the entire T:ToN game, but they have a hard time articulating why. I'll tell you the reason: It is because he is the sole surviving non-SJW character in the entire game. Every other non-SJW has been genocided by multiculturalism and globalization. The Genocide alone stands in defiance of the SJW dystopia Monte Cook/Colin McComb have created. I'm sure this character was deliberately written to be deplorable, but instead he is the most sympathetic character in the game to non-SJWs. Many people wish he could be taken along as a companion, but that would directly contradict Colin and Monte's vision for this character. You are MEANT to hate him, and if you don't, then you are a bad, bad person and guilty of a grievous thought crime. "The Genocide" is essentially Trump and everything he represents, so to an SJW he is the greatest evil in the entire game - far worse than the Sorrow, or the Changing God, or anything else. Who knows, beneath all that armor he might even be white. The very last of his kind.

Well said Comrade I wished I could RP as The Genocide instead of tranny Gypsy I was forced to or at least take him as companion... At-least I did have my fun from Wasteland 2 DC where majority of shekels intended for this pos went.
 

Chris Avelltwo

Scholar
Joined
Mar 3, 2017
Messages
678
Dude you wrote 5 extensive paragraphs in a response to one sentence that I produced while doing the number two.

:didntreadlol:

Dude, it took me a lot of time to type that; the least you could do is read it. Sure, it's a "wall of text", but if you have a problem with walls of text then you got no business replying in a thread about a game that is nothing but walls of text. My 2 shins, anyway.
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
Glanfathans lol

This is a glanfathan:
C5tVxWkVUAAHG6E.jpg



Jeez, that's fucking sad. They go to every nobody to thank them for a few kind words. It's really, really sad. McComb in particular seems like he's bipolar now between butthurt and denial.
 
Last edited:
Weasel
Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Messages
1,865,661
Someone PLEASE stop Fargo:



Yep, seems like we're gradually moving on from "the team are over the moon with the amazing reception!". The next stage is probably "There's no market for text-heavy RPGs now, we should have focused on cinematic dialogues like in WL3". :negative:

 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,660
Probably because it was in development hell and they had to adjust the budget just to get it over the finish line.

Wonder how that happened

http://www.dagonslair.com/dossiers/torment-linterview-brian-fargo-colin-mccomb-kevin-saunders/
Long pre-production is key for RPGs and you like to have every little detail hammered out before the production team starts implementing.

Torment will have a nice, long pre-production period.

This is not the case. We have a working prototype up, to help us test out and get a feel for the art pipeline and density of content. We've also been prototyping dialog with Obsidian's tools for some time now. The game is very much still in pre-production phase but the idea a lot of people seem to have that pre-production happens "only on paper" or is a time when you're static and things don't progress is quite simply incorrect.

And for what it's worth, while I don't have a lot of industry experience my impressions agree with the take that this longer pre-production period is a positive. Money really isn't a concern at this stage.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...production-technology-and-lore-updates.92285/
It'll be interesting to see how Torment, with its unusual excess of preproduction time, comes out in comparison to all the other RPGs that are going to be released over the next year or so. It's gratifying to remember that the original PS:T had a lengthy preproduction period as well...

The answer: the worst player reception of all the big crowdfunded RPGs.
 

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,124
I mean, they're not wrong, PS:T was definitely polarizing at first, I don't think I even got out of the first location on launch. You wake up in a weird, creepy room, have no idea what's going on, the atmosphere is tense, then suddenly some skull with a voice like Groucho Marx starts vomiting walls of text over you. The whole thing felt so out of place I immediately the game it off. Obviously it was pirated in those days anyway so I had 50 other games to play.

It was small merry band of devotees that kept the reputation of PS:T growing and growing over the years. Eventually someone convinced me to suffer through shite that is Mortuary and it turned out the game is indeed a masterpiece.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
28,242
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Glanfathans lol

This is a glanfathan:
C5tVxWkVUAAHG6E.jpg



Jeez, that's fucking sad. They go to every nobody to thank them for a few kind words. It's really, really sad. McComb in particular seems like he's bipolar now between butthurt and denial.
More like Glandfattie right?
 

Malpercio

Arcane
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Messages
1,534
Complaining about boredom in T:TON opening, when Pillars has you finding the berreis for your explosive diarrhea as plot hook.

The intro quest isn't just about searching for berries, and you know it. Saying the intro to POE is just about finding a berry is like saying the intro to Fallout: New Vegas is just about a mailman trying to deliver a poker chip. This might seem boring and mundane, but then some Deus Ex Machina shit happens and everything gets turned upside down. The Springberry quite possibly saved your character's life in a way besides treating your diarrhea, because it got you out of the camp so you aren't there when the Glanfathans murder the shit out of everyone.

If you want a good example of an intro quest done wrong, look at FO2's unavoidable temple tutorial where you just fight some ants and then talk to a guy at the end. The springberry quest serves as a tutorial to new players, but it does in a way that feels organic and not contrived. You're sick, and a sick person needs to be healed, and in the process of searching that out catastrophe strikes, and then you're swept into something far more significant than mere diarrhea. The fate of the entire world now lies on your shoulders. Cilant Lis is also a temple tutorial of sorts, but I feel it is a temple tutorial done right in comparison to FO2's temple tutorial. It teaches you the game mechanics organically, and its more involved than just fighting ants and talking to some dude. FNV's gecko shooting tutorial similarly feels organic and teaches you the basics of the game, but it doesn't feel like a chore, and if you want to you can even avoid it entirely. I really do appreciate Josh Sawyer's approach to game design, by simultaneously providing a helpful tutorial to those who might need it, but doing it in a way that doesn't feel contrived. Most game designers fail in this respect. But no, its never just about a springberry or a pokerchip. Those are simply Macguffins, and every game has them, but not every game handles them properly.

That being said, I never felt boredom playing PoE. There's tons of exciting combat to be had, and unlike T:ToN you can't be a hippie peacenik and avoid all of it. Heavy reading of text walls can get tiresome, but at least PoE isn't just exclusively that... it is an actual game instead of just a glorified Visual Novel. PoE also doesn't try to shove an SJW political agenda down your throat either, because you actually have the option of playing as a Meadow human if you so choose. This is sadly not the case in T:ToN where apparently a billion years into the future the Meadow humans are all extinct. I know Josh often gets slammed on here for being an "SJW" himself, but I daresay he isn't as extreme in his views as Monte Cook/Colin McComb/etc. Even if he were, it seems like he is perfectly capable of separating his personal views from the characters and factions he designs. Monte/Colin/etc. were unable to separate their politics from their writing, and that's why T:ToN is what it is. But Josh Sawyer on the other hand is able to create such deep and interesting yet un-SJW characters as Edward Sallow, Joshua Graham, Father Elijah, Thaos ix Arkannon, etc. as well as the factions they represent. Caesar's Legion, for example, with its misogyny and slavery and whatnot is quite possibly the most anti-SJW faction that has ever been devised in any video game ever. It is hard to fathom that such a faction was concocted by an "SJW", and yet this is indeed the case. But you really don't see anything quite like that in T:ToN. The closest equivalent would probably be the Tabaht which were destroyed thousands of years before the game is set. So T:ToN doesn't have the clash of ideologies that F:NV or Pillars, or any truly good game should have.

In a way, I'd say T:ToN is like the polar opposite of Tyranny in the sense that Tyranny is set in a world where "evil" has already won, and T:ToN is set in a world where SJWs have already won. How game developers out in California seem to define "evil" is anything that is not SJW, so to them Terratus under Kyros is an "evil" place, but T:ToN is a "good" place. The grand struggle in T:ToN is not between "good and evil", but between the Changing God and the First Castoff and their supporters. But this is kinda like the 2008 DNC between Obama and Hillary, where regardless of who won the result is still SJWism regardless.

Many people seem to consider "The Genocide" to be one of - if not the - most interesting characters in the entire T:ToN game, but they have a hard time articulating why. I'll tell you the reason: It is because he is the sole surviving non-SJW character in the entire game. Every other non-SJW has been genocided by multiculturalism and globalization. The Genocide alone stands in defiance of the SJW dystopia Monte Cook/Colin McComb have created. I'm sure this character was deliberately written to be deplorable, but instead he is the most sympathetic character in the game to non-SJWs. Many people wish he could be taken along as a companion, but that would directly contradict Colin and Monte's vision for this character. You are MEANT to hate him, and if you don't, then you are a bad, bad person and guilty of a grievous thought crime. "The Genocide" is essentially Trump and everything he represents, so to an SJW he is the greatest evil in the entire game - far worse than the Sorrow, or the Changing God, or anything else. Who knows, beneath all that armor he might even be white. The very last of his kind.

Is it just me or this dude went to normal to /pol/ conspiracy crazy in 0.5 seconds?
 

Chris Avelltwo

Scholar
Joined
Mar 3, 2017
Messages
678
"The Genocide" is essentially Trump and everything he represents

:prosper:

How does a general in a monstrous army who wanted to destroy Sagus Cliff represent Trump?
Are you a SJW or what

Destroy? No. That is Fake News. The Tabaht were only trying to make Sagus great again. You see, the place had been overrun with illegal immigrants and rapefugees which the Tabaht meant to deport, but they were foiled by the liberal obstructionism of the Changing God.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
I was scanning through some of the positive Steam reviews just now. It's striking how lukewarm and defensive many of them are. A lot of the time it's "This isn't a real Planescape: Torment successor, but..." or something along those lines. Except the ones raging at strawmen who supposedly hated it because it's not action-packed cinematic 4K fluff. (I don't recall reading any negative Steam reviews with that complaint BTW.)
 

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,124
So I was playing the other day and got into a battle. My dog, as he usually is, was sitting there next to me. As the battle went on for a minute or two, my dog started begging for my attention and I noticed he was shaking. I was worried because it's not a normal thing for him to do. So I held him for a bit, then went to get him some water. I turned off the game at some point, and soon after he stopped shaking. I didn't make a connection between the two until it happened again just about 20 minutes ago. I again got into a combat encounter and my dog started to get upset and start shaking. This time, I plugged in my headset and my dog calmed down soon after that.

There must be some kind of tone in the combat encounter music that my dog hears and just does not like. So I guess I'm gonna be using my headset from now on when I play the game!

:what:
 

StaticSpine

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 14, 2013
Messages
3,232
Location
Moscow
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
So I was playing the other day and got into a battle. My dog, as he usually is, was sitting there next to me. As the battle went on for a minute or two, my dog started begging for my attention and I noticed he was shaking. I was worried because it's not a normal thing for him to do. So I held him for a bit, then went to get him some water. I turned off the game at some point, and soon after he stopped shaking. I didn't make a connection between the two until it happened again just about 20 minutes ago. I again got into a combat encounter and my dog started to get upset and start shaking. This time, I plugged in my headset and my dog calmed down soon after that.

There must be some kind of tone in the combat encounter music that my dog hears and just does not like. So I guess I'm gonna be using my headset from now on when I play the game!
:abyssgazer:
 

TT1

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 25, 2016
Messages
1,479
Location
Krakow
Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
Travel to the Ruins of Denver
Hello Rangers!

First and foremost, just in case you somehow missed the news, we've released our latest game. Torment: Tides of Numenera is on Steam, GOG.com and other stores and platforms - see all your options here. A quick word from Brian:

It's always thrilling and nerve-wracking for our team to put a new title out there. The press response has been amazing, you can find some of the critical praise here and here. We've also been been very pleased by the touching and thoughtful comments from our fans on forums, comments, and social media. If you enjoyed playing Torment, we'd love it if you said so on Steam, GOG, or your store of choice.


Click to watch


We are strong proponents of sticking with our games post-release. Our goal is always to do right by our fans by continuing to support our games with fixes and improvements, as well as new content. Torment is no exception in this respect, and you can expect to see the game grow over time as more new features are added, including Oom, "The Toy" companion.

(...)

View this update on the web

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""NEW CONTENT"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Jesus Christ, Inxile
 
Last edited:

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,124
Ohohoho. If Ziets is a design lead for the whole game, that gives me massive hope boner.
 

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