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Poll: Obsidian's worst rpg

What's Obsidian's worst game?


  • Total voters
    293

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,653
Yeah, no Avellone. But it did have George Ziets, though. Narrative certainly did take a backseat to gameplay in this game, but the narrative it did have was still pretty good, and there was some rudimentary branching paths and companion relations. As I said, it needed more time and budget than it got, but you can make out the distinct Obsidian style if you look closely. I particularly liked the DLC backstory of St. Hiram at the monastery, and his martyrdom there. That seems like exactly the sort of thing that would belong in Sawyer's historical RPG, if that ever gets made. A lot of the DS3 ideas are half-baked, but they're good ideas nonetheless.

More time and budget would have helped with the reception from ~other players~ but not the Codex, which has a fundamental problem with Obsidian's goals for the title.

George Ziets said:
Kevin Saunders said:
I've got one for you George: when I departed DS III in June 2009, the creative foundation you were laying was awesome. I expected another story masterpiece. But the final game (10/2011) didn't excite most critics with its story. What the heck happened? =)
Good question, Kevin. The DS3 story went through so many rewrites that I don’t remember exactly where it was when you left the company, but I’m sure it was early in the process – probably right after I finished the Ehb sourcebook.

My early drafts of the story were truer to my usual narrative tendencies. They were more personal - focused on the player – and they depicted a “grayer” version of the Legion. One of the storylines – possibly the one you remember – also included a lot more supernatural elements.

However, it was decided (above my pay grade) that we should keep the story focused on a threat that affected the nation or the world. Also, there was a desire to ensure that the Legion was clearly Good. I think the underlying impulse was to avoid a lot of narrative complexity, which makes sense in a franchise like Dungeon Siege.

So at that point, I started a long cycle of story revisions. Normally, the iteration process is where your story gets progressively stronger. But in this case, I remember feeling that we’d ended up with a weaker, more watered-down story than some of the earlier versions.

Why did that happen? In my opinion, it’s because we never fully resolved the tensions that were inherent in our high-level vision – marrying an action RPG with an Obsidian-style story. We wrestled with pacing, dialogue style, and the appropriate depth of story until the end of production. And we ended up in a bland midpoint between the two genres that pleased few people.

To our credit, I think we found the right balance when we made the expansion, Treasures of the Sun. Also, the narrative in TotS was more open-ended and exploratory, which I think worked a lot better for that style of game.

Tony Evans said:
Agreed. We should not have attempted to tell much of a story in DS3. I pushed too hard for story in the beginning, and you, George, sealed our fate by writing such a kick ass narrative bible for a game license that was unsuited for such depth.
 

Chris Avelltwo

Scholar
Joined
Mar 3, 2017
Messages
678
Yeah, it was the wrong franchise. The existing DS franchise didn't appreciate it, and they absolutely hated the changes to gameplay and neither do Obsidian fans, as you said. Apparently no one was happy with the outcome, especially Square-Enix who have shelved the DS franchise - perhaps permanently. That period when the game was made was a really dark time for Obsidian and RPGs in general. That's when they got screwed over on their NV bonus and inevitably forced to lay off a bunch of people. All that probably impacted the quality of the game, too. DS was a poor use of Obsidian's talent... casting pearls before swine, so to speak. The South Park game and Armored Warfare (which isn't in this poll) are like that too. But hey, when you're desperate for money I guess you have no choice but to whore yourself out to whoever will pay, right?
 

Rostere

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
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Stockholm
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 RPG Wokedex Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Perhaps it should be mentioned that I didn't play Treasures of the Sun, so I don't count that towards DS3.

I would understand if you vote AP as Obsidian's worst game. AP, DS3 and SP:TSoT are IMO the only contenders for the title. The people who voted PoE or Tyranny are the usual crowd of contrarian and perpetually butthurt people.
 
Self-Ejected

Harry Easter

Self-Ejected
Joined
Jul 27, 2016
Messages
819
I thought long about it and I would say: South Park.

Dungeon Siege III was fun with a friend and it had one very well written city (Stonebridge), but the more I think about South Park, the less I do remember about it. In fact, I often forget that it exists. It's not bad though, it's just ... wait, what was I gonna say? I forgot.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
I thought long about it and I would say: South Park.

Somebody at inXile liked it enough to crib the Mr. Slave quest from it.

iCaQjPwBYxjIkRAtDRLycHwli6NuMJHapEpN1qoHDRYLGVWc33YWTWzWHhYQkNkNGhSdrFbjwhpIQ-qfH-quJO1hpIoDod85MbD0vr1Qs1WhTyeoH8HYRckN9Oy0GeEa0Vr3UVT1
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,522
It's a (poor) flash game quality-wise sold at premium price and it's absolutely shit and completely indefensible.

Like I always say: if you're enough of a failure as a gamer to be an Obsidian fanboy at least pick the 5-6/10 games of theirs to champion for on the interwebz. Trying with those 1-3/10 is just... just don't.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,653
Truth Stick has an overwhelmingly positive Steam score and a completion rate of nearly 50%. They succeeded in giving the South Park audience what it wanted.
 

Bigg Boss

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
7,528
South Park was one of the funniest games the year it came out. It did exactly what it needed to do. Fuck Dungeon Siege 3.
 
Self-Ejected

vivec

Self-Ejected
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
1,149
If only I could vote for Deadfire.

One day.


Explain?

I'm not sure all hope is lost with these. JES was quite categorical about five companions, but has qualified his statements about these things. I at least intend to keep banging on about this into the beta and beyond. There is a chance he'll change his mind about it; he has done so with comparably major things in P1.

That's the funny part. The guy who thinks he's got all figured out actually hasn't. And doesn't understand that that's kind of a point. Why try to perfect a system when all you make anyway is mediocre one with a passable story? Why not experiment with some pre-established things out there instead? Right now PoE is pretty much D&D next without its charm and variety. Why not just try to get 3.5 right for once? It's literally done perfectly well for ToEE and worked. What a pity no one ever took that gauntlet up again and just made a TB game like it with better setting and story :(. Everytime someone tries its either a RPG maker game or the company tanks. There's gotta be a jinx on it.
 
Last edited:
Self-Ejected

vivec

Self-Ejected
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
1,149
WTF am I reading has never been more appropriate.
 

AN4RCHID

Arcane
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
4,728
Never played NWN2 so I can't comment, but DS3 stands out as their most banal game to me. Southpark was not a game for me but at least it had some personality, DS3 put me to sleep.

Tyranny felt like an InXile game lol, I didn't make it very far before quitting that one either.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,653
inXile wishes it could make a game like Tyranny.

I may not like the art direction, but at least it has one.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
inXile wishes it could make a game like Tyranny.

I may not like the art direction, but at least it has one.

It also has an editor and a style guide. T:ToN could've used those too.

(And gameplay. Tyranny has some of that too. It's kind of shit, but at least it's there.)
 
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Messages
3,914
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I haven't played Dungeon Siege III yet (it's in my possession though, so I will probably sometime soon), but I really like all the others.
I thought about voting SoZ briefly, but I didn't really find it to be bad, it's just the least great one of those.
 

Rostere

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
2,504
Location
Stockholm
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 RPG Wokedex Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I haven't played Dungeon Siege III yet (it's in my possission possession though, so I will probably rather soon), but I really like all the others.
I thought about voting SoZ briefly, but I didn't really find it to be bad, it's just the least great one of those.

Yeah, well, the question is "which one is worst", not "which one is bad". So, even if you think all games are great, there might still exist a worst Obsidian game.
 
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Messages
3,914
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I haven't played Dungeon Siege III yet (it's in my possission possession though, so I will probably rather soon), but I really like all the others.
I thought about voting SoZ briefly, but I didn't really find it to be bad, it's just the least great one of those.

Yeah, well, the question is "which one is worst", not "which one is bad". So, even if you think all games are great, there might still exist a worst Obsidian game.
Mkay, you're right. Changed vote to SoZ accordingly.
 

santino27

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
2,678
My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
I've tried to get through DS3 a few times, and just never managed it. Some combination of the gameplay and a story I didn't care for.

South Park wasn't a great RPG, but it was very on-mission for its fans. AP was a clusterfuck but had the seeds of (imo) one of Obsidian's best games and despite its various problems, I still remember it more fondly than most.

I voted for the original NWN2 campaign as it was a failure on most fronts; I thought the story was bad, the engine was atrocious, the camera sucked, the combat was sometimes indecipherable, etc.

That might be because I had higher expectations for it though. Games like DS3 get a bit of a pass because I knew going in that it wasn't necessarily going to be my cup of tea.

(Also, NWN2 was still better than the OC for NWN from Bioware)
 
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Self-Ejected

Sacred82

Self-Ejected
Dumbfuck
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
2,957
Location
Free Village
My vote is on DSIII, DSII may just be my favourite game OF ALL TIME, and Obsidian killed the series for me. The worst offender IMO is the JRPG-ish lack of customization, as building different parties is what made the series great. RIP.
 

Chris Avelltwo

Scholar
Joined
Mar 3, 2017
Messages
678
It's a (poor) flash game

It looks exactly the way a South Park game should look. The game looks exactly like the show and it's cut-out style animation. There have been a number of South Park games over the last 20 years, but this one is probably the best and most faithful to the series. Of course, if you hate the show, then there's little in the game you'd find appealing. I haven't played the new one made by Ubisoft, but it would be interesting to see how well it stacks up against Stick of Truth. But the point is its going to look like a flash game, because that's just how cut-out animation is, and you can't really do anything about that if you want to preserve the look and feel of the show.

Also, it is worth noting the team at Obsidian which made SoF is the very same team that made Tyranny right after.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...Truth_steeled_Obsidian_for_making_Tyranny.php

Here's a link to an article about how the south park game with its crudeness and vulgarity helped prepare them for making Tyranny. In Tyranny, you can murder an infant, and in SoF you have to fight nazi zombie aborted fetuses (I hear that part is censored in the EU version of the game, btw).

This team that made SoF and Tyranny is like a B or C team at Obsidian. Right now it could be anyone's guess what they're up to, but I suspect they're working on Tyranny 2 because the first Tyranny ended on a cliffhanger that needs to be resolved. Then again, sales might not have been up to Paradox's expectation, so they also might have just canned the entire franchise permanently. I guess that's anyone's guess, but either way those people weren't laid off so they're definitely up to something atm.

The Josh Sawyer team and the Tim and Leonard team comprise the best Obsidian talent, though. I don't know about the Dungeon Siege III team. I beat that game not long ago and watched through the credits, but only recognized a few names. I suppose those people are all gone now? Then of course, there's the folks that were brought in temporarily to work on Armored Warfare, and then laid off once their work was done.
 

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