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Vapourware Daggerfall Unity isnt Vaporware

Miles Davis or John Coltrane?

  • Miles Davis

    Votes: 48 29.3%
  • John Coltrane

    Votes: 48 29.3%
  • Kenny G (kc response)

    Votes: 68 41.5%

  • Total voters
    164

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
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Messages
5,623
I don't see any problem with criticizing the guy's promises. You are, after all, creating hype. And people get disappointed, and rightfully so. I'd rather not get hyped by someone who misunderstands the meaning of "promise".

One way or another, Daggerfall XL seems pretty much like Skywind: people saying "don't play Morrowind, wait a few months"... back in 2012.
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
Wesp for example. A decade later, i still see bugs. A decade later, i still see his lack of maturity, as in his mind, uncut/unfinished content is O.K. content and/or a "priority"; when it's not improved tits that is.. A decade later, he still focuses on the eye candy. Now depending on your priorities, he may or may not have delivered and either way i'm fine with it all, subjective. Point is that he too falls in this category. Takes a rare exception and these almost always stand out. The dumbfuck here ain't one of them.

Weeeellll...
I can understand not welcoming all the stuff Wesp is doing, but the difference is - Wesp's patch is working great for years. It fixes practically all the important stuff. You can use it just fine.
The things he's doing now ist probably just because he's somewhat obsessive, but they are technically not required to enjoy a reasonably bug-free VTMB on a modern system.

Dagger XL OTOH never left alpha stage.
 
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Aenra

Guest
the difference is - Wesp's patch is working great for years

Of course and i am not comparing them in -that- sense, you misunderstood. Obviously no contest, one has had it out or years, the other never shall, lol.. my point was in regard to mentality, and the very few that have the right one.
Am thankful to Wesp for patching that thing, but i'd be a grand liar if i said his priorities sat well with me or that, had i his skills, that would be what i would have done. Anyway, let's not derail, was my bad.. not the best example i could have thought of, lol.

But if that makes it any clearer? Take Ash for example. I don't give a fuck about his person, maybe he's a retard, maybe not. His patch though rules. He has the right mentality, he focused on the right shit; gameplay. Drog; another proper example; thanks to him Arcanum is playble. Wesp? Not really, even though yes, he too got it out. That's kinda what i meant :M
 

Luzur

Good Sir
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But, Interkarma isnt doing any of the graphics, its the other modders thats doing that as patches for the engine, Interkarma is doing the engine itself.
 

Aenra

Guest
But, Interkarma isnt doing any of the graphics, its the other modders thats doing that as patches for the engine, Interkarma is doing the engine itself.

Won't be the first time i'm wrong :)
But all i see is horse animations and pwetty flowers. The amount of shit i could list, like serious shit (they shouldn't even have passed Alpha), is about a page long. Have not seen any of that addressed. Aesthetics aplenty, retards uploading plant pot assets ffs, sure; engine "optimizations", again sure. But that's not what's keeping people away. Or should anyway.
So as i was saying, to me this is a clear sign of a wrong direction. Yes, maybe they -do- need to sort the whole damn engine before they sort some of these out; maybe. But is this the impression you've gotten out of them? I read your pastes man and it sure ain't mine.

(which obviously sucks because in an ideal world, a bug-free Daggerfall with Morrowind's level of modding support would be awesome needless to say. These people ain't the ones that will bring this however, you mark my words)
 

Luzur

Good Sir
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It Lives!
Posted on March 10, 2017 by Interkarma


With some back-end and core actions out of the way, it was incredibly satisfying to watch the quest system spring into life today. The two bootstrap quests are now launched with a new character. They don’t do much more than popup messages right now, but everything starts somewhere.

The work from here is “just” building out all the remaining actions and conditions for quest scripting. I say “just” because it’s still ahuge amount of work. But it’s finally starting to feel like I’m getting somewhere!

If this doesn’t look like an awful lot of progress for a few months work, remember it’s a black triangle milestone. This is a pioneer of more interesting stuff to come.

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Questing Part 3 – Anatomy of a Task
Posted on March 7, 2017 by Interkarma
JugglingAction-1024x558.png

Example custom quest action created for this post

The quest system back-end is coming along. I’m sad it’s not further along by now, but life has a way of disrupting plans. The important thing is I’m still making progress and have some good stuff to share today.

In this post, I will dissect tasks along with their conditions and actions, which together form the meat of a quest. There’s a great deal of technical content ahead, I want this post to be a kind of primer for contributors to quest system. My apologies to those of you who don’t enjoy code-heavy updates.

Before getting started, please have a quick skim through Donald Tipton’s excellent documentation for his Template v1.11 quest compiler/decompiler. As discussed in Questing Part 1: Source, these source files are also used by Daggerfall Unity’s quest parser so we have common ground with classic. This even allows quest source to be shared back and forth with classic for testing. I’ve actually rolled back some of my ideas from that first post and will use Template source files directly as-is without any changes. This might have to change in time but right now I’m aiming for total parity.

If you’d like to see some real quest source, you’ll find all of Daggerfall’s decompiled quests in the StreamingAssets/Questsdirectory (link to GitHub, ignore .meta files). But today we’re just zooming in on tasks and actions to see how these are handled by Daggerfall Unity.



Tasks
Daggerfall quests have four distinct forms of tasks (so far). All of the examples below are from the quest _BRISIEN.

Standard – This is a basic task which does not start unless explicitly triggered somehow. The task name (e.g. _invitepc_) is also a boolean symbol which can be queried to see if task has been triggered (i.e. is active). The lines under the task header are the conditions and actions making up that task.

_invitepc_ task:
start timer _remindpc_
give pc _letter1_ notify 1026
create npc at _dirtypit_
place npc ladyBrisienna at _dirtypit_
Repeating – These tasks execute continuously until the symbol they reference (the boolean state of another task or variable name) is triggered. In below case, the task will persist until _exitstarter_ is triggered. Repeating tasks appear to be triggered automatically at startup.

until _exitstarter_ performed:
start quest 999 999
start quest 977 977
start timer _invitepc_
remove log step 0
Variable – A variable is really a kind of task with trigger state only. Trigger state may be set/unset by other tasks.

variable _exitstarter_
Headless – Every quest must have a single headless task. This is the entry point to be executed automatically at quest start-up. Unlike other tasks, a headless task does not have a symbol to query trigger state. It just executes to bootstrap the rest of quest. This is the entry point of _BRISIEN:

-- Quest start-up:
log 1010 step 0
pc at PiratesHold set _exitstarter_
say 1025
At time of writing, Daggerfall Unity will parse through quest source to instantiate tasks and try to match component actions to a registered template (more on this below).



Conditions
Other than being triggered at startup or by other tasks and clock time-outs, a task can have one or more conditions that might cause it to be triggered. For example, if player is in a specific place at a certain time (e.g. Daggerfall at night) then some action can be performed (e.g. play the “vengeance” effect). This makes it possible to chain together tasks which trigger on and off based on the trigger state of other tasks.

I won’t go much into conditions right now as they have not been implemented yet. I’ve just barely stubbed out a bit of starting code that will be replaced later. If you like, you can read more about quest conditions here.



Actions
A quest action is a bit of text that does something. This is usually a single thing like playing a sound, displaying a message, or starting another task. Don’t think of actions like a normal programming command though. They aren’t necessarily run and done (although they might be). Try to think of actions as components attached to a task in a similar way that Unity components are attached to a GameObject. This isn’t a perfect analogy, but its a start. Like GameObjects in Unity, tasks can switch on and off and their component actions perform bits of work over time.

Actions are a great way for contributors to help build out the quest system. There are many different kinds of actions, some will be very simple others very complex.



Building Actions
So how does an action go from a line of text to actually doing something in the game? The rest of this post will cover the fundamentals and show a real working example of a custom action… in action.

The bones of every action begins with the ActionTemplate class, an abstract implementation of IQuestAction interface. All actions must inherit from ActionTemplate and implement the required parts of IQuestAction. This ensures that every action template has a few key features:

  • Pattern – A regex string used to pair a line of source text with this action. Two actions cannot have the same match pattern.
  • Test – Checks if provided source string matches the regex pattern expected for this action.
  • Create – An action template is special in that it can also factory (i.e. generate) a new instance of itself with default settings. This allows the QuestMachine which hosts active quests to hold a list of self-replicating action templates that can be instantiated as required.
  • GetSaveData – Gets a data packet from action live state. This will be passed on to JSON serialization system when saving a game.
  • ResoreSaveData – Sends a data packet to action from serialized state. This will be used to restore action state when loading a game.
  • Update – Called by the task owning this action. Allows the action to do work every frame as needed.
To show all of this working, I wrote an example called JuggleAction which simulates the player juggling some number of objects with a percent chance to drop one. Click here for the full source code and I’ll break it down below. Let’s start with the pattern:

public override string Pattern
{
get { return @"juggle (?<numberOfThings>\d+) (?<thingName>\w+) every (?<interval>\d+) seconds drop (?<dropPercent>\d+)%"; }
}
This is just a basic regex match string that looks for a pattern like “juggle 5 apples every 2 seconds drop 40%”. Everything the action needs to execute is contained in the pattern. Sometimes an action might take different forms and the pattern string must cover these variants also.

The parser uses Test to find a registered action template with pattern matching source. When a match is found, the JuggleAction template will factory a new instance of itself with default settings by way of Create.

public override IQuestAction Create(string source, Quest parentQuest)
{
// Source must match pattern
Match match = Test(source);
if (!match.Success)
return null;

// Factory new action and set default data as needed
JuggleAction action = new JuggleAction(parentQuest);
action.thingName = match.Groups["thingName"].Value;
action.thingsRemaining = Parser.ParseInt(match.Groups["numberOfThings"].Value);
action.interval = Parser.ParseInt(match.Groups["interval"].Value);
action.dropPercent = Parser.ParseInt(match.Groups["dropPercent"].Value);

return action;
}
You’ll notice the action parameters are exposed directly by the Match class returned by Test. This makes it easy to read out the values involved. At this time, our new action is ready and is added to a collection stored in the Task object. During quest runtime, the task will call Update on each action to do the work required. Here it just counts off time and if still holding any objects, calls the Juggle() method. Note that we’re using Time.realtimeSinceStartup instead of Time.deltaTime. The reason for this is that QuestMachine ticks at a slower rate than Unity (currently 10 times per second). So we need to measure time without using something that only changes frame-to-frame.

public override void Update(Task caller)
{
// Increment timer
if (Time.realtimeSinceStartup < nextTick)
return;

// Juggle 'em if you got 'em
if (thingsRemaining > 0)
{
Juggle();
}

// Update timer
nextTick = Time.realtimeSinceStartup + interval;
}
Below is the Juggle() method for completeness. It just spits out some notification text to HUD and randomly decrements object count until none are remaining.

private void Juggle()
{
// Juggle current things
DaggerfallUI.AddHUDText(string.Format("Juggling {0} {1}...", thingsRemaining, thingName));

// We might drop something!
int roll = Random.Range(1, 101);
if (roll < dropPercent)
{
thingsRemaining--;
DaggerfallUI.AddHUDText("Oops, I dropped one!");
}

// Give up if we've dropped everything
if (thingsRemaining == 0)
{
DaggerfallUI.AddHUDText(string.Format("Dropped all the {0}. I give up!", thingName));
return;
}
}
I won’t touch on GetSaveData and RestoreSaveData yet as quest state serialization has a ways to go. You can check the full source of JuggleAction linked above for an example implementation.

You might recall I said something about registering new actions with QuestMachine. This might change later, but right now our action class JuggleAction is registered in QuestMachine from RegisterActionTemplates() like below. The template is only being used as a factory so it doesn’t need to pass in an owning quest at construction.

RegisterAction(new JuggleAction(null));
Registering the action template allows the quest machine to find it (using Test) and factory a new instance from the template.

Now that we have an action and registered it to quest machine, we actually need a quest that uses this action for real. I created a cut-down quest just for this example called __DEMO01.

- Minimal example quest used to demonstrate how to script custom actions

Quest: _BASIC01

QRC:

- No text resources

QBN:

- Headless entry point with custom action
juggle 5 apples every 2 seconds drop 40%
All that remains is to instantiate the quest itself. I will add a console command soon for this, but in the meantime I’m calling the following bit of code from StartGameBehaviour.

GameManager.Instance.QuestMachine.InstantiateQuest("__DEMO01");
This loads our custom quest into the quest machine and starts executing supported actions, which right now is just the demo quest and juggle action. When starting a game, this will be the output:

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Next Steps
For now, I will continue to work on the quest machine, parser, and related frameworks. My immediate next step will be to get the full tutorial quest working along with some foundation conditions and actions, and a few supporting user interfaces (quest log, quest debugger UI).

I would like to invite the more experienced contributors to review the quest source documentation in more detail and see if any actions might fall into their range of interest. I would also love some help with quest resources other than tasks (e.g. Place, Item, Foe, Person, etc.). I’ve stubbed out the Clock resource as a starting point. If there is something you would like to work with, please start a conversation on the forums and let’s see where it takes us.

If you have any questions or would like to dicuss this post in more detail, please don’t hesitate to find me on the forums!



For more frequent updates on Daggerfall Unity, follow me on Twitter @gav_clayton.

UPDATAN

also, texture porn:

y3mTTLAYUt0l0QqR9XoZbTd42uWDdugq_0jEjERMKu_NxrZtHCPgyElsQdH3pPdNcwiN7L-yaIger3vDwaK38ByH-1_Bkr12YotX0unC3YeGS5gIKP8pb9fziF9Y5Xs45AhIGEFkrzi2fejrBgx4avrO6PdCf6y0Ia9Q_ErEC3E9mU

y3m9sH1Ys3E5-fI9CpoApArdgJC9BMwR7S2KAQ3eIpv4yeBmZ2oIZL1mTa137XKhBQR-B7_jXFdios5j7N2TkA_C7wlEX4y8nFUL6u-06F67ltEkCmNnDVhtVgNwQlV8LLR4DqRuCTvRPrcfN2bTz0fG2ZdQRhC5KoQ_Ia3uW4OtHQ

y3mBOqTyohVpSr9I-m5djHvq3zvqmK-rG-K204KhMnSUv5FQIPXKNf8QijMylijnZwRG_ldF_YhhBFbPMjt0lwjRXRTVH1tWmXX59pPIklQJBzEUjVEVrVPpu5SBhLW4aR4T-nMkHN7moy9IqSDw7Rfx5tazDj7ufxWuedCgef8bdg

M6NesSc.png
 

Aenra

Guest

/old fart bitching, you were warned

See they don't "get it", which is what i've been saying, lol
This kind of a draw distance, it reduces, it doesn't add. It takes away both mystery and worry; anyone wanting a more recent example, look at Morrowind's graphic extender. All of a sudden, you realize that the island isn't that big after all (...), that the goddamm cave with the first magical ring you find in the game was actually pretty much right next door (except the fog hid it), that ultimately, these guys were pretty damn smart in accepting the engine's limitations and actually making them work in their favor. All that is lost the second you add MGE with a high distance in.

Now look at those pics again..
They're too young. They.Don't.Get.It.

Skyrim has destroyed the young.
 

DraQ

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Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody

/old fart bitching, you were warned

See they don't "get it", which is what i've been saying, lol
This kind of a draw distance, it reduces, it doesn't add. It takes away both mystery and worry; anyone wanting a more recent example, look at Morrowind's graphic extender. All of a sudden, you realize that the island isn't that big after all
Daggerfall *is* that big, though and it desperately needs ability to see the area around you if all that square km are ever meant to become anything more than an empty number to extend your e-dick with.

In the original there was no exploration and overland was essentially pointless - extended draw distance plus modded overland content can actually change that.
 

Alt

Augur
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
121

/old fart bitching, you were warned

See they don't "get it", which is what i've been saying, lol
This kind of a draw distance, it reduces, it doesn't add. It takes away both mystery and worry; anyone wanting a more recent example, look at Morrowind's graphic extender. All of a sudden, you realize that the island isn't that big after all (...), that the goddamm cave with the first magical ring you find in the game was actually pretty much right next door (except the fog hid it), that ultimately, these guys were pretty damn smart in accepting the engine's limitations and actually making them work in their favor. All that is lost the second you add MGE with a high distance in.

Now look at those pics again..
They're too young. They.Don't.Get.It.

Skyrim has destroyed the young.

You are absolutely right. Sometimes less is more, especially when you consider the uncanny valley effect. I'm sorry, but the screens I see here look shit to me. Actually kills the nostalgia effect and replaces it with a bad mixture of minecraft and early 3D blocky objects. And the "grass", seriously?

Reminds me of how a C64 game I recently played has aged especially well: B1 Nuclear Bomber, from Avalon Hill. It had no graphics at all (it runs like a text adventure), yet I still have a vivid picture in my head of how my bomber crashed into a hillside when evading a SAM missile shot while flying nap of the earth on the run in to the target.
 

Aenra

Guest
Daggerfall *is* that big, though and it desperately needs ability to see the area around you if all that square km are ever meant to become anything more than an empty number to extend your e-dick with

You either didn't understand what i was saying, or are past the point where it could have registered.

It's a good thing it was that "big", but the geography and sheer landmass have absolutely fuck all to do with what i was saying. Unless of course you're the kind of person that needs to be 'shown' something so you can find it, or even become motivated to go look for it in the first place.
I'm not.
(if my saying "small" confused you, i meant that when nothing remains in your imagination but is instead "served" to you, yeah, it is diminished in value. Morrowind in fog felt like something larger, more dangerous; morrowind in MGE felt smaller)

To give you a different example, a lot of people never found out about the "special" days in Daggerfall, or what could happen if they visited a coven during said time periods.
Does that mean we should add a new element to the UI, informing the retard player about them? They were always there end of the day, just like your "big" areas. Except people had to find out on their own, adding to the element of satisfaction/joy when they did. Why dumb it down to a mere showing them?

And lastly, how many RPGs did you get of this size? To explore? And how can you possibly say that the best exploring is one where everything is visible? Not on the map, but on the actual screen? It's not exploring then, not when it's already there.. Gimme a fucking break :)

edit: and mind you, we're talking about 101% optional stuff here. You didn't have to explore to finish the game, the main quest was fetch, serve and follow from start to finish. And yet, here you are.
 
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a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
To give you a different example, a lot of people never found out about the "special" days in Daggerfall, or what could happen if they visited a coven during said time periods.
Does that mean we should add a new element to the UI, informing the retard player about them? They were always there end of the day, just like your "big" areas. Except people had to find out on their own, adding to the element of satisfaction/joy when they did. Why dumb it down to a mere showing them?
This is a pretty old mindset though. Back then, sure, this was doable, but now most developers would cringe at the idea of spending their ludicrously expensive development man-hours crafting even a single piece of content that players might miss out on. It's just too expensive.

Unfortunately, this modern practice has birthed an entire generation of casuals that expect everything to be shoved in their faces.

But more to your argument, there's no real point to seeing around you in the world map because it's there for flavor and to keep the world feeling like a world instead of a group of levels connected by loading screens. The developers couldn't fill that large an area, so they hardly filled it at all in between the locations.

Daggerfall's large worldmap was a big as it was probably because of the number of dungeons. Most of the game was proceduraly generated. There are 4232 dungeon locations in Daggefall. These give the game replayability. A player can explore the game for 100 hours and not even scratch the surface.

Over a small area, only a few dungeons could be spawned and the repetitiveness of them would be extremely noticeable, but over a large area any number of dungeons could be spawned and you wouldn't have issues with dungeons popping up every ten feet the way Oblivion and Skyrim do - though in Daggerfall's case it would be every 10 inches even in a Morrowind-sized world.

Of course, DraQ just wants to turn it into a walking simulator like Oblivicrap. "Oh, look a dungeon on my minmap. I will go explore it, la!" *Pretends to walk for 10 minutes.*
 
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Aenra

Guest
I thought it wasn't procedural, that instead it had.. what's the fucking word for them? Pre-made (but limited, set number) asset packs, just shuffled them up with each new game?

Won't argue on the technical part as i don't know the whys, or on the fact that it's primarily for show* :)
Still adds something to the whole though, fog, not knowing what's where; plus, the odd areas that did have some importance? They were pretty easy to miss, a mod as the one linked above would ruin that.

Anyway, my point was about the modder(s)'s mindset. I just think it's the wrong one, bit too modern for a game like Daggerfall. Needs fixes, not eye candy and infinite view distance. It's an old whore, let her have her makeup and shit. Adds to the mystery.

* though i do wonder if the intended siege events had anything to do with it.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
I thought it wasn't procedural, that instead it had.. what's the fucking word for them? Pre-made (but limited, set number) asset packs, just shuffled them up with each new game?
They were all generated and then some were hand-tweaked, as I understand it. They are not re-generated they way they would be in a rogue-like though. They saved the state of the game at some point and everything from dungeon layouts to monster spawn points will always be the same. Procedurally generated in development, but doesn't it procedurally generate anything itself.
Still adds something to the whole though, fog, not knowing what's where; plus, the odd areas that did have some importance? They were pretty easy to miss, a mod as the one linked above would ruin that.
I agree with this. And it goes to my point about the world map - it was never meant to be something players actually waked across all the time - even though it's possible. If it was, more effort probably would have been put into actually filling it with things.

Removing the fog just heps to ruin the illusion it is there to create - ie, that the world is some expansive world you are wandering in. Instead it reveals it to be the giant, flat sham that it is. Adding a minimap for the few walking simulator larpers with enough time on their hands to actually "explore" it on-foot would just be another step in the wrong direction.
 
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V_K

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They were all generated and then some were hand-tweaked, as I understand it. They are not re-generated they way they would be in a rogue-like though. They saved the state of the game at some point and everything from dungeon layouts to monster spawn points will always be the same. Procedurally generated in development, but doesn't it procedurally generate anything itself.
Not quite. The overworld is procedurally generated by the game, but with a fixed seed - i.e. it's procedural but not random and doesn't change from game to game. Then premade stuff (main quest dungeons primarily) is added on top of it.
I'm not sure about the side-quest dungeons though, whether they remain the same (and only quest object locations are random) or are completely random with each new game.
 

Luzur

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They were all generated and then some were hand-tweaked, as I understand it. They are not re-generated they way they would be in a rogue-like though. They saved the state of the game at some point and everything from dungeon layouts to monster spawn points will always be the same. Procedurally generated in development, but doesn't it procedurally generate anything itself.
Not quite. The overworld is procedurally generated by the game, but with a fixed seed - i.e. it's procedural but not random and doesn't change from game to game. Then premade stuff (main quest dungeons primarily) is added on top of it.
I'm not sure about the side-quest dungeons though, whether they remain the same (and only quest object locations are random) or are completely random with each new game.

From what i remember of the tech it was only the main plot dungeons, main city names, and positions on the map and plot-line in general that where fixed, the rest where random.
 

baturinsky

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Nah, everything is fixed. If you live in small province, like Koegria, you can even memorize layout of the most of it's dungeons over time.

Removing the fog just heps to ruin the illusion it is there to create - ie, that the world is some expansive world you are wandering in. Instead it reveals it to be the giant, flat sham that it is. Adding a minimap for the few walking simulator larpers with enough time on their hands to actually "explore" it on-foot would just be another step in the wrong direction.

If you didn't know, vast majority of the real world is a "flat sham" (or "tree-covered flat sham"). Did you expect it to be packed tightly with attractions, like later TES games?
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
If you didn't know, vast majority of the real world is a "flat sham" (or "tree-covered flat sham"). Did you expect it to be packed tightly with attractions, like later TES games?
Of course not. I already went over why it isn't and that's why the design doesn't lend itself to the walking simulator masturbation that Oblivitards crave.
 
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GandGolf

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The most annoying aspect of Daggerfall for me was the design of the dungeons, They were all way too similar. The only one that was unique in any way was the one near the end.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
The most annoying aspect of Daggerfall for me was the design of the dungeons, They were all way too similar. The only one that was unique in any way was the one near the end.
Yeah, I guess. See, that's the kind of thing the guy who's remaking it should be spending his time improving, since it'sat the core of the gameplay - after actually implementing every feature from the original game fully - not trying to improve a feature that was completely optional and not central to gameplay at all.
 

Luzur

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Swedish Empire
The most annoying aspect of Daggerfall for me was the design of the dungeons, They were all way too similar. The only one that was unique in any way was the one near the end.
Yeah, I guess. See, that's the kind of thing the guy who's remaking it should be spending his time improving, since it'sat the core of the gameplay - after actually implementing every feature from the original game fully - not trying to improve a feature that was completely optional and not central to gameplay at all.

They are doing rework on the dungeon block system algorithm and textures, and i think remember reading about adding new stuff to dungeons/cities/wilderness aswell.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

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They are doing rework on the dungeon block system algorithm and textures, and i think remember reading about adding new stuff to dungeons/cities/wilderness aswell.
But other than that, is it complete compared to the original? Just seems odd that they're spending time on everything from textures to what amounts to entirely new features when the game itself is still not done.

Or have I just not been paying attention and all the features from the original have been inplemented?

I keep coming back to this thread - a thread that started 7 years ago (talking about a different project with the same goals) - waiting for a build that at least simply has all the features/quests/story of Daggerfall implemented and I keep reading about stuff like "we made this tree slightly less pixelated". wew.
 
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DraQ

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Daggerfall *is* that big, though and it desperately needs ability to see the area around you if all that square km are ever meant to become anything more than an empty number to extend your e-dick with

You either didn't understand what i was saying, or are past the point where it could have registered.

It's a good thing it was that "big", but the geography and sheer landmass have absolutely fuck all to do with what i was saying.

Unless of course you're the kind of person that needs to be 'shown' something so you can find it, or even become motivated to go look for it in the first place.
I'm not.
(if my saying "small" confused you, i meant that when nothing remains in your imagination but is instead "served" to you, yeah, it is diminished in value. Morrowind in fog felt like something larger, more dangerous; morrowind in MGE felt smaller)
I am the kind of person that needs to see something to see it.

Geography has everything to do with whether extended draw distance is beneficial or detrimental. Morrowind was heavily downscaled and packed with hand-made content - it relied on short draw distance to hide proximity of locations and twistiness of routes. Daggerfall was huge and empty. Anything that helps add actual gameplay purpose to the outdoors will make Daggerfall better given that in the original you never had any reason to wander outside of a location tile, it might just as well have exit grids forcefully dumping you into map mode when trying to walk (or ride) out of town (or dungeon tile) - especially when it also looks good in addition to helping gameplay.

To give you a different example, a lot of people never found out about the "special" days in Daggerfall, or what could happen if they visited a coven during said time periods.
Does that mean we should add a new element to the UI, informing the retard player about them? They were always there end of the day, just like your "big" areas. Except people had to find out on their own, adding to the element of satisfaction/joy when they did. Why dumb it down to a mere showing them?
Except we are not talking of an artificial UI element. We are talking of being able to use your own fucking eyes to see around.

Morrowind was compressed, it relied on unnatural constraint of not being able to see very far to cancel equally unnatural compression out. Daggerfall is pretty much 1:1, limited draw distance serves no purpose in it other than allowing it to run on toasters.

And lastly, how many RPGs did you get of this size?
It's made doubly ironic by the fact there was literally nothing to find in the wilderness, and finding locations by wandering around was at best impractical - your best bet was stumbling upon maps.
To explore? And how can you possibly say that the best exploring is one where everything is visible? Not on the map, but on the actual screen? It's not exploring then, not when it's already there.. Gimme a fucking break :)
The best exploring is when you can see *something*. You need *some* information to make decision about where to go, otherwise you are just stumbling around blindly and might as well just flip a coin.
Morrowind is a great example of how exploration *should* work - Morrowind's overland is a masterpiece full of crisscrossing, sometimes very subtle breadcrumb trails leading to one another, with quest often apparently serving mostly as a pretext to have you walk by something you just may notice if you are observant enough.
Daggerfall, OTOH is just huge. It can't really be explored, at least not overland and not in physical sense (discovering gameworld detail and optional content is also a form of exploration, but we are talking about the literal exploration here), while dungeons are barely explorable because they are repetitive and generally don't hide anything unique to bring the satisfaction to overcoming their drunkenly labyrinthine layouts.

Exploration is only interesting through its power to surprise you, Daggerfall doesn't really work in that regard.
 

Luzur

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Swedish Empire
They are doing rework on the dungeon block system algorithm and textures, and i think remember reading about adding new stuff to dungeons/cities/wilderness aswell.
But other than that, is it complete compared to the original? Just seems odd that they're spending time on everything from textures to what amounts to entirely new features when the game itself is still not done.

Or have I just not been paying attention and all the features from the original have been inplemented?

I keep coming back to this thread - a thread that started 7 years ago (talking about a different project with the same goals) - waiting for a build that at least simply has all the features/quests/story of Daggerfall implemented and I keep reading about stuff like "we made this tree slightly less pixelated". wew.

Well "they" in this regard are other people, Interkarma is doing only the work on the engine and game, the rest are sidekicks.

http://www.dfworkshop.net/

educate the mind
 

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