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Game News Torment: Tides of Numenera Released

Ismaul

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Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
i would say the worst tb games are also worse than the worst rtwp games
Agreed, if we're talking on the basis of their combat only.

That's because TB locks you down, while RTwP allows you to move freely and evade the battle more easily. TB has a hard time when there's a lot of characters for which it takes the time to display all the moves, especially if animations are slow and there's no way to speed them up. Fallout got annoying sometimes in towns. I remember Paradise Cracked by russian studio MiSTLand; devs had made the weird design decision to make the game full TB, not just combats but also exploration. The concept was great, music and graphics appropriately cyberpunkish, and the combat interesting, but I had to quit half-way, couldn't take having to move my whole party in TB, and waiting for my turn while every character and vehicle moved.

RTwP also usually implements automatisation, so if the combat is shit, it usually plays itself so it's a not a major annoyance, and you could even turn down the difficulty to make it even less noticeable if the design is that bad (assuming the rest of the game is somewhat worthwhile).
 

l3loodAngel

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And just for the sake of argument show me ONE rtwp game that is superior to an averge combat on a Turn Based game like say Wasteland 2
And why even bring up Fallout?
Are you retarded or is that somehow Rtwp to you?
You are not only lazy my little hombre you are simply stupid and sooo butthurt it is not even funny... where are your arguments now? Oh come on you copy pasted some cool sounding games from the Codex top 50 or what?
Back up your shit kiddie not just throw a tantrum and go away
As for blowing stuff, yeah I believe you have got me beat on that, guessing that Bloodangel most have something to do with your mouth and ass after you visit your local glory hole
Mmm maybe that explains why you keep coming back to say stupid shit, you actually like getting put down boy
Retard I showed you five, what do else do you want? You're fit just for manual labour.
 

l3loodAngel

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OK. I feel refreshed.
You missed the point, again. You dont understand me.
And it is. I never said that it wansn't modified. But that's normal as some things work in RT and some things don't. BUT AT IT'S CORE it is a solid DnD system.
I'll indulge you. So, what is a "solid D&D system", if you can replace its combat mechanics with a different system, even if most mechanics in D&D are tailored to its combat system?

Even if it's tailored for TB it doesn't mean that it cannot be modified and be suitable for other formats. That can easily seen comparing DnD RTwP systems vs other RTwP systems. D&D based are superior.

Would you say it is still solid D&D if we removed the class system and made it skill-based? Because that change is of the same magnitude as stripping out turn based.

But they are not removing anything important. On the basic level they are increasing spead and due to the change some things do not work. However, those things that dont work are more related to TB rather than D&D itself. Or are you saying that Initiative and 1 extra round are THAT important?

Initiative on the other hand is more of the TB machanic as most TB games have it.
so called developers decided to forget about iron clad rules that drive DnD system (rolls and other stuff) and for that reason we are flooded with MMO/MOBA/DAO type game RTwP systems.
So in your opinion, D&D's system is "rolls and other stuff"? But by your own argument, "rolls and other stuff" are used by most PnP RPGs. How then are those what make D&D D&D?

Back then I thought that I am talking to someone with a decent IQ. Now that I understand that I have to deal with an imbecile I will be more precise. Rolls, characters, stories, classes, perks, skills, abilities, Gary Gygax, races, monsters, factions, cities, lore, storytelling, larpers, basement.

Let me make it clearer. Turn based systems are not just a cosmetic layer on rolls and rules. They are the core combat mechanic on which character features and actions are designed. They are the rules upon which the other rules are built to interact with. In turn based systems, you have an alloted amount of actions you can take before others have to act. In D&D, you usually have a main action, a move action, and a minor action and/or a reaction (depending on editions). You have to plan ahead, because when your turn is over, then everybody acts before you act again. That means if you left yourself in an exposed position, you most likely will get fucked by all your adversaries. So positioning is extremely important, as is the ability to disable others, use cover/conceal yourself, and plan ahead with the rest of your party (who does what and when). You've got all those combat actions/mechanics built around that, such as delaying, readying actions/overwatch, replacing a main action with a move, reactions, etc.

Let me make it clear. You keep repeating same stuff over and over, how it will never work out if it's not TB, even thought it was done many times. It's like saying the car will never be able to drive on snow, because it was made for roads. Yeah, I know it needs more testing to find out if it will work. Let's wait for future releases to prove it or rebut it.
What you are mixing up constantly is game design vs game system. Game design and by that I mean enounters/traps/access to enemies/abilities of enemies and other similar stuff is design that makes you plan shit in advance. In a good game TB or RTwP when you're out of position you are FUCKED. Just because it's TB it doen't make you do all those things magically - it's the design.

1. Real time doesn't work like that, because if you realize you're getting fucked, you can just pull out right away after the animation of your action finishes (and even then the game might have implemented cancelling actions). Readying and delaying make no sense there. If you realize you need healing, you don't have to wait until it's your healer's turn, tense because your fighter might die any moment, you just heal right away. Cursed/poisoned/etc.? Remove it now before you suffer its effects. The economy of actions is completely different. Because of that, the balance has to be different. .2 And class features, weapons, and choosable talents have to be different too, because their way of interacting with the moment to moment gameplay in combat is different. 3. That is why, btw, Arcanum's combat systems were inevitably going to fail, trying to do both.

1. You cant remove stuff before you suffer any effects, because dispeling shit costs a round. The issue of pulling away can be fixed with attacks of opportunity, snares spells and other effects. That's the fucking issue of balance (MEANING DESIGN).
2. You just pulled that out of your ass. You talk like no DnD RTwP systems exist yet. While they have been in the market for fucking decades. Go on try prove that it does not exist or needs more testing. It should be tweaked if it's very unbalanced and that's it. DnD based RTwP systems proved to be superior ton-non DnD systems. Thus, your garbage is not worth a wooden nickel.
3. Again shit is flowing through the edges. Arcanums TB combat failed because it had no engine under the bonnet.

Now real time has strengths that can't be had by TB. It's perfect for systems that require you to react moment to moment to what your opponents are doing. Manually blocking and dodging are things that are possible, but make no sense in a TB system. Those are strengths that are used by the Gothics and Dark Souls, for example.

What you are describing is a fucking twitch. So using twitch (reflexes) to manually block in Oblivion taking precedence over stats is a good thing? And a strength that can't be had by TB? FUCK YOU. Retards like you are drowning this site with W3 voting and popamole slurping.
9d5.png


See how the combat system influences design?

Intellectual bottom feeder you are. Talking out ass you do.
 
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kolton

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Playing the game in 30 minute spurts. Can't seem to really GET into it. But as of this moment I'm still assuming that's an issue with me, not the game.

I'm pretty much in the same boat, except I'm playing reading it one NPC per session. Had to cut the convo with Sir Arthour into several sessions since he's the father of all lore dumps.
 

Crospy

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VD had the most concise argument to put an end to the debate with any retard who thinks d&d rtwp is the same thing as tb.

Go play real time chess. Come back and tell us how the game works.

No need to expand as much effort as you guys put in this thread. Let the moron drown in his own ignorance and crass.

Arguing too much with morons hurts your brain cells, don't do it.
 

Deleted member 7219

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VD had the most concise argument to put an end to the debate with any retard who thinks d&d rtwp is the same thing as tb.

Go play real time chess. Come back and tell us how the game works.

No need to expand as much effort as you guys put in this thread. Let the moron drown in his own ignorance and crass.

Fighting in real life isn't turn-based.

:M
 

l3loodAngel

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VD had the most concise argument to put an end to the debate with any retard who thinks d&d rtwp is the same thing as tb.

Go play real time chess. Come back and tell us how the game works.

No need to expand as much effort as you guys put in this thread. Let the moron drown in his own ignorance and crass.

Arguing too much with morons hurts your brain cells, don't do it.
Made a new account for brofist ratio hunting?
 

Shin

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I avoided the codex for a bit while I played this - didn't want to get my motivation down too much. And since I just finished it...

it was a pretty good experience overall

the good:
- i liked the setting a lot after playing, they did manage to capture the feeling of PS:T's intricate setting imho
- the companions are pretty fun, of everyone I took along, Tybir of whatshisname was the only one I kinda regretted taking along eventually and no not just because he's a homo. I guess I liked the hero dude (already forgot his name..) a lot, even though/because of the shit you can do to him.
- the variety of locations was cool, especially the bloom... some parts did look kind of 'off' though in some places
- some cool side quests with often multiple solutions
- you don't have to engage in a lot of shitty combat

the meh and the bad:
- too much text. I get that this is a PS:T spiritual successor and all that and I hail PS:T for being one of my favorite games but there was often too much unnecessary text/prose. it did bother me less than in PoE
- fucking visions, I felt like at least 25% of the game is spend in some kind of vision of some other, and while there are some neat stories in there, after I while I grew tired of them, ESPECIALLY when finding out that some of them don't do jack shit at all except give some more 'flavor'
- the plot itself ended on a low note imho, the last sequence basically asks you what ending you'd like to have which is rather weak. also, the 'what does one life matter' thing didn't really come to full fruition imho
- the reactivity of the main plot -> see above
- combat is rather shitty while not being really bad. I can't really say I liked it a lot more than PS:T but it did what it was set out to do I guess. I did keep thinking 'at least PS:T had faster combat' all the time during a crisis.
- shitty items and artifacts and oddities and whatnot, I had about 9000 shins (gold) at the end and an inventory full of all kinsd of crap. also I think I only used like .. 4 cyphers the entire game, didnt really bother with weapons either (I did play a nano)
- what was the deal with the tides? I thought they'd influence general gameplay more and would have more impact on NPC's... didn't notice them one bit
- overall the game was too easy... i guess that's a thing when it's basically a CYOA game.
- the effort system was also a big meh.. I liked it at the start, but later checks were much too easy, especially with the edge stuff you get to pick and companions often filling in for the main character even if that would be illogical story-wise.

I guess I'd rate it as a 7.5 or 8/10 for now. I hope the Ninth World gets more games, I don't think they need to be about philosophical ramblings (like this one) either. A rags-to-riches story of a bloom resident of something would satisfy me immensely, but so would a similar game set in Sigil for example so heh.

I'd still recommend it to fans of the genre
 
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Hellion

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- what was the deal with the tides? I thought they'd influence general gameplay more and would have more impact on NPC's... didn't notice them one bit

At the endgame sequence,
the Sorrow references your dominant Tide with a line like "I've seen you act noble and caring during your path, let's see if your choice lives up to your ideals" if your Tide is Gold or something like that. I guess that line changes depending on the character's Tide, but that's about it.

That's literally the one and only time I've seen the game aknowledge and/or reference the character's dominant Tide.
 

Ismaul

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Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
Would you say it is still solid D&D if we removed the class system and made it skill-based? Because that change is of the same magnitude as stripping out turn based.
But they are not removing anything important. On the basic level they are increasing spead
:deadtroll:


What you are mixing up constantly is game design vs game system. Game design and by that I mean enounters/traps/access to enemies/abilities of enemies and other similar stuff
This type of design is called encounter design. You'd know if you ever opened a D&D manual. Level design is also used for video games.
 
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Lurker King

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Fighting in real life isn't turn-based.

Neither is RTwP, because you can't pause reality, duh.

VD had the most concise argument to put an end to the debate with any retard who thinks d&d rtwp is the same thing as tb.

Go play real time chess. Come back and tell us how the game works.

Some interesting threads about this discussion:

An argument for turn based - The Magnificent Seven argument

Real time vs Turn based?

Fucking RTwP in Project Eternity? HOW DOES IT WORK? TB vs RTwP

My OCD is telling me to make a detailed list of each argument against RTwP, but I managed to control the impulse.
 
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Ismaul

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Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech A Beautifully Desolate Campaign My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
Some interesting threads about this discussion:
...
My OCD is telling me to make a detailed list of each argument against RTwP, but I managed to control the impulse.
Yeah, arguments aren't new. I knew VD at least had said some of what I've just said. Forgot about Saint_P, man this was 15 years ago.

Maybe compiling all the arguments on TB vs RTwP would indeed make a great article, something to refer to when newfags or idiots don't get it. But to make it fair you'd also have to give RT its due and show why and when it should be used. Because RT > RTwP, if used correctly:
RTwP is real time that sucks. The pause is an honest admission that fast-paced, party vs party, real-time combat is too chaotic to be controlled on the fly and that AI is too retarded to be relied on, and thus you have to pause this interactive movie to issue some basic orders and show AI how it's done.
 

IHaveHugeNick

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RtwP is cancer, but after playing Pillars and T:TON, I kind of wonder if RtWP isn't maybe a better choice if the game is really text heavy. It just injects some pace and energy into the game.
 
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Lurker King

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RtwP is cancer, but after playing Pillars and T:TON, I kind of wonder if RtWP isn't maybe a better choice if the game is really text heavy. It just injects some pace and energy into the game.

What you mean is that you wanted the combat to end fast because it was so bad. I think it would make the fights to feel even more empty and shallow.
 

Lady_Error

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BTW: someone said that TTON has no humor, I think it was on steam forums, it's not true, it has, but it's more of a dark humor.

Yeah, I liked small humorous bits the most, eg. that old cannibal guy saying "Take care. Take GREAT care" when you leave.

Or when Rhin says "I'm so sorry" when she kills someone in combat.
 

MRY

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- what was the deal with the tides? I thought they'd influence general gameplay more and would have more impact on NPC's... didn't notice them one bit

At the endgame sequence,
the Sorrow references your dominant Tide with a line like "I've seen you act noble and caring during your path, let's see if your choice lives up to your ideals" if your Tide is Gold or something like that. I guess that line changes depending on the character's Tide, but that's about it.

That's literally the one and only time I've seen the game aknowledge and/or reference the character's dominant Tide.
The Philethis mentions it, albeit in a cryptic way.
 

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