Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Thread

[Roguey]

Torment now has 16 more Steam reviews than Siege of Dragonspear, but only a 1% better ranking (74% vs 73%).

Tough crowd.

 

[Moth]

Torment now has 16 more Steam reviews than Siege of Dragonspear, but only a 1% better ranking (74% vs 73%).

Tough crowd.

If Torment can bestow upon itself one accolade, it is indeed better that Siege of Dragonspear.

 

[Malpercio]

The persuasion checks are one of the most pathetic ones I've ever seen. Freeing Rhin from the slaver was nonsensically handled, you basically say "lolol release her, even though you need her to stop killing people hurr durr" and she immediately agrees. There is no persuasive argument, there is no argument at all.

I told her to become a vigilante and she immediately agreed and in one sentence she changed argument, it was pretty weird.

 

[FeelTheRads]

There's quite a bit of situations that are up there with "[Intelligence]So you fight the good fight with your voice", with those related to Persuasion sticking out the most where they're essentially:

- how about you change your mind to what I say?
- ok

 

[Jarpie]

The persuasion checks are one of the most pathetic ones I've ever seen. Freeing Rhin from the slaver was nonsensically handled, you basically say "lolol release her, even though you need her to stop killing people hurr durr" and she immediately agrees. There is no persuasive argument, there is no argument at all.

I told her to become a vigilante and she immediately agreed and in one sentence she changed argument, it was pretty weird.

Reminds me of the dyalogg checks in Fallout 3: "Plz destroy urself" "no" *speech check* "pretty please cherry on top" "Ok! I'll destroy myself!"

 

[cruelio]

I don't understand why they slavishly followed the main plot of Planescape so much. Just because it's a spiritual sequel soft reboot homage seaboot doesn't mean you copy the high beats almost word for word. It just made me think "you know, I could just play Planescape, where at least the shitty combat goes by faster cause its real time and there are less bugs." The parts where they don't do their best to ape literally every single element of Planescape's main story are so much better. Half the time I'm talking to some random NPC or doing some sidequest and I'm thinking "why wasn't the game just about this instead?"

P shit game but at least better than Wasteland 2 overall 6/10.

 

[Lacrymas]

They are using the skill check as the argument, which is meta in a very bad way. In essence the UI is capable of and is changing people's minds due to hidden dice rolls. It's an excuse to not write persuasive arguments, because surprise, surprise, persuasion is not easy. Aristotle wrote a whole book about it. There are no long conversations to persuade people like in PS:T, there is only the dice roll and the token "please agree with me" dialogue choice.

 

[ArchAngel]

They are using the skill check as the argument, which is meta in a very bad way. In essence the UI is capable of and is changing people's minds due to hidden dice rolls. It's an excuse to not write persuasive arguments, because surprise, surprise, persuasion is not easy. Aristotle wrote a whole book about it. There are no long conversations to persuade people like in PS:T, there is only the dice roll and the token "please agree with me" dialogue choice.

So it works like Fallout 4

 

[Florian Gheorghe]

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Anyway...the loading times are amazing

They really are an important improvement over POE and Tyranny.

 

[FeelTheRads]

You'd think that with over 10 billion words in the game they'd have natural conversations, but I'm guessing they counted all the names and epitaphs in the Valley which probably account for half of their number.

 

[Jarpie]

I found most of the sidequests in Sagus Cliffs pretty much utterly pointless and shit, most of the time I was thinking "Why should I even be bothering", do they get any better? I liked the foreman's need to create offspring potentially very interesting only if they'd done it better and actually follow it up, but as we're not coming back, we're not gonna get to follow up on it.

I've just arrived to the Valley of Something, and I'm gonna soldier on to see the mere written by MRY as I really liked what he did with Primordia so it'll be interesting to see what he's done with it

 

[Florian Gheorghe]

I totally agree with you except one thing:
Unlike you, I don't think InXile making bad CRPGs.
I had great time with Wasteland 2, POE, The banner saga and D:OS.
So Obsidian, InXile, Larian and the others did very good - in my opinion...
And so far, I'm in love with TTON.
Maybe I'm more forgiving than you about the games I play...
(It's like people who laugh from anything.
You don't really understand them, but you can't ignore the fact that it's easier for them to enjoy life...)

TTON has the best story of all of them. Divinity : OS while having a great combat it could not hold me enough to finish it. But maybe I'm just a sucker for 2D isometric games with good story and great reactivity.

 

[MRY]

Jarpie -- Make sure you're on the Severed Child quest before you meet Inifere. Apparently it's easy to sequence break things.

 

[Sentinel]

I totally agree with you except one thing:
Unlike you, I don't think InXile making bad CRPGs.
I had great time with Wasteland 2, POE, The banner saga and D:OS.
So Obsidian, InXile, Larian and the others did very good - in my opinion...
And so far, I'm in love with TTON.
Maybe I'm more forgiving than you about the games I play...
(It's like people who laugh from anything.
You don't really understand them, but you can't ignore the fact that it's easier for them to enjoy life...)

TTON has the best story of all of them. Divinity : OS while having a great combat it could not hold me enough to finish it. But maybe I'm just a sucker for 2D isometric games with good story and great reactivity.

Wrong! PoE still has the best story. TToN has the better setting.

 

[Excidium II]

You think they'd admit that there's something wrong with the project or Saunders would publicly talk shit, and effectively ruin his career because you don't shit where you eat? Have you ever seen anyone shitting on the projects they leave for whatever reason unless there's been public spat?

How fucking dim are you?

Edit: Let me spell it out for you, he'd get blackballed in the industry the second he'd say anything negative about any project he'd worked on previously, or any ex-employer.

No, but I think they wouldn't speak to each other at all if there was bad blood.

L1berals are the masters of dishonest courtesy.

 

[Jimmious]

Yeah I have to say you're right. I really like the lore and the cyphers and oddities and the whole concept...
But I'm like 8 hours in and I have literally fought ONE battle, the one in the very beginning of the game. The first Crisis I solved with dialog so yeah. I just click on dialog options so far. Interesting ones but damn.
I never believed anything would make me miss the random crappy thug battles in PST

Didn't they add smaller, non-Crisis fights you can initiate?

Though allegedly the various Crises are lazily designed so I'm not sure how one could tell the difference.

What can I say, I didn't fight anything so far basically. I keep getting equipment for battle...but fighting none

 

[Cnaiur]

They really are an important improvement over POE and Tyranny.

Plain text loads fast.

 

[Luckmann]

They are using the skill check as the argument, which is meta in a very bad way. In essence the UI is capable of and is changing people's minds due to hidden dice rolls. It's an excuse to not write persuasive arguments, because surprise, surprise, persuasion is not easy. Aristotle wrote a whole book about it. There are no long conversations to persuade people like in PS:T, there is only the dice roll and the token "please agree with me" dialogue choice.

To be fair, good vs. shit writing aside, most CRPG:s handle this rather poorly. In PnP, a roll for Persuasion (or "Diplomacy" or whatever, depending on system) is a substitute for the own player's inability to formulate an argument. Rolling is a means to interpret what the character the player is playing does; if he fails, he made a persuasive argument. If he failed, he.. well.. failed to make a persuasive argument.

In most CRPG:s, there's an argument, and then you see if it is persuasive or not by rolling, which is rather ridiculous. Instead of having <argument>→Roll→Resolution, it should be <basis for argument>→Roll→<actual argument>→Resolution. This not only means that you could have a situation where the character's argument is based on the roll, but you could also choose multiple different bases for your argument, which would modify the difficulty.

For example, let's take the slaver, you could essentially have two different bases for Persuade such as:

1. "Do the right thing." [Persuade] → Difficulty 4 Persuade Test.
2. "Become a vigilante instead!" [Persuade] → Difficulty 6 Persuade Test.

After the roll, you get different actual arguments, based on whether you win or fail. Assuming you take option 1:

Fail: "You totally should do, like, the right thing. It's it's own reward, y'know. Good guys get free tacos."
Success: "Is this truly what you want to spend your life doing? You have all but immortality, and limitless potential. You can be a force of good; you don't need to be shackled by the same fate as so many of our brethren."

Or whatever.

And in case it wasn't obvious, the difficulty isn't revealed to the player. If they go for the "Do the right thing" or "Be Batman" as the basis for their argument should depend on their interpretation of what would work the best, just like in PnP.

 

[Jarpie]

I think one of the reasons I was disappointed with many quests in Sagus Cliffs is that they hardly IMO take the any advantage of the setting. Only really Ashen Imitation does, pretty much all other quests are what I could find from "Your Generic RPG XYZ", and even it by small changes.

The game is set in the billion years in the future, where you could come across great wonders and ruins of the past civilizations or come across mysterious artifacts and what not, but they've managed to make the quests feel just utterly mundane.

 

[Sigourn]

Got 2 hours into my new playthrough. I decided I would take different quest options this time.

Honestly, though, I'm fucking tired of the dialogue in this game. PS:T's seemed to come around much more naturally, at the right time, and only when you needed to know about something. Here, new concepts are thrown around at every step of the way. I'm not even memorizing them or the names of cities and characters anymore. I don't even know what my current two companions (long coat dude and Indian rapist dude) are called either. Maybe I'm just tired of Numenera to actually put effort into it (heh).

 

[PhantasmaNL]

There are a few Youtubers doing PTs, colonel RPG for example.

I would actually pay monies for a fully narrated PT by Wayne June.

 

[Grotesque]

Why are encounters called "Crisis"? Why not "Battle" or "Fight"?

smugness

also see the name for afflictions in this game

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Why are encounters called "Crisis"? Why not "Battle" or "Fight"?

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0besHVJZpvFU1RaY0dGWlZ5V0U/edit

Man, it's painful reading that shit after having seen how it turned out in practice. All these complicated concepts, innovations, experiments, various goals they wanted to reach.

Meanwhile all you actually end up experiencing as a player is CAN THIS FUCKING SHIT GO ANY FASTER.

 

[DeepOcean]

Jarpie -- Make sure you're on the Severed Child quest before you meet Inifere. Apparently it's easy to sequence break things.

Who designed the Underbelly and the Fifth Eye? Especially the Ashen Imitation, Eyes of the Adversary, Shaky foundation, Circles in Red and the The Sorrow's Prey quests? They are pretty interesting, I just wished I could get to them quicker instead of talking with alot of NPCs that didn't have much to offer.

 

[Jarpie]

Jarpie -- Make sure you're on the Severed Child quest before you meet Inifere. Apparently it's easy to sequence break things.

Who designed the Underbelly and the Fifth Eye? Especially the Ashen Imitation, Eyes of the Adversary, Shaky foundation, Circles in Red and the The Sorrow's Prey quests? They are pretty interesting, I just wished I could get to them quicker instead of talking with alot of NPCs that didn't have much to offer.

Yeah, The Sorrow's Prey was nice one.