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Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Thread

veevoir

Klytus, I'm bored
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech
Also, the gay pirate is the second prominent gay pirate in a TB birds-eye-view fixed camera p&p based rpg that I can think of. I can't think of any other gay pirates in any other rpgs. In all fairness ToEE had at least two counting the pirate boss who was the joinable gay pirate's lover. Is there something about these kinds of games that is more gay pirate friendly than other rpgs?

Do you keep track of gay pirates in RPGs, divided by categories (TB, RTwP etc)?

Sirius question.
:updatedmytxt:
 

YES!

Hi, I'm Roqua
Dumbfuck
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Also, the gay pirate is the second prominent gay pirate in a TB birds-eye-view fixed camera p&p based rpg that I can think of. I can't think of any other gay pirates in any other rpgs. In all fairness ToEE had at least two counting the pirate boss who was the joinable gay pirate's lover. Is there something about these kinds of games that is more gay pirate friendly than other rpgs?

Do you keep track of gay pirates in RPGs, divided by categories (TB, RTwP etc)?

Sirius question.
:updatedmytxt:

ToEE is one of my favorite games and a gay, pirate, dentist cabin boy kind of sticks out. This game, to me, is similar to ToEE in the ways I described above and also happened to have a gay pirate. I cannot think of any other games with gay pirates so found this fun fact interesting. Maybe other games have tons of gay pirates but they were all still in the closet. I don't know. Can you think of any other rpgs with prominent gay pirates?
 

Shadenuat

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I finished the gaym btw, took me 24 hours, but I spent some time running the game and reading 'dex and just slacking out to take rests. I'd say I've read at least 60% of all text, but I only began reading everything at the end of the game, about the time when you enter sigil the Bloom and then reloaded during endgame to see what happens around (turned out mostly nothing, the endgame erased things I tried to do during fight against memovira like trying to feed her to Sorrow and sent me into nifty finishing line).

I hope I don't spoil and disappoint you edgy shitlords if I say that nothing you do in the game seems to matter concerning (main)endgame since you get Deus Ex HR finale and choose between endings by clicking on them right? At least I did not find something like Divine Spear in AoD.
The differences are in the details and most things I didn't get are various companion endings and such.

Also at the last hour the Plot happens, at least something resembling it, feels like writing starts to actually matter.

The plagiarism from PS:T blasts at the endgame hard, I almost cringed. I was waiting for something unique till the end, and at first the twist sorta felt that way, but end scene seriously stomped on PS:T corpse. Pretty much everything clicks into PS:T plot-puzzle in the end, and I won't describe it or even spoiler it, since people have right to end up disappointed by themselves.

The combat and character system are not good at all. The Crisis system had potential, but since a) you can avoid 99% of fights incredibly easily and are never forced to use anything like stealth and b) whatever Crisisesessses..es.... there are in the game, they are quite easy - there is only one in Castoff hiding place that takes you by surprise; it just lacks any real wow-factor or tactical challenge.
I also had glitches during at least few battles, up to game freezing in end turn mode due to one enemy AI not doing anything during one of the very last battles in the game.
And spending points to pass skill checks is nothing but routine after a while in the game. You just quickly get too overpowered + system is not savescum proof in any way.

The quests, generally, hold your hand, with very few exceptions, which feel almost like flavour design and not intentional one; you can generally fail something if you do some things out of order or hurry too much. A few examples I can quickly remember (there are probably more for sure) that stand out are:
- If you sleep too much, the friend of not-pirate companion will get executed - although since it's too obvious, I wouldn't count it.
- The murder case in the beginning of the game has at least one timer AND you can pick wrong person, although it is very very hard to do so since game just basically writes in your journal who the murderer is. (game writes a lot of stuff in the journal by the way that can be concidered handholding)
- The complicated Inefere/Choe quest is one of those that punishes you for not exploring around; although in truth, I won't be surprised if some people from their point of view would say it is not really fair to try and make player care for a character like Inefere and other cultists since by all practical means they deserve to have their heads on a pike.
- Same can be said for "aliens" locking you out of their ship at the Bloom - you hurry too much, you miss the quest there.

There is also the replayability thing, or non-choices like I'd call them. As dexer pointed out to me, ONLY if you fuck up the Clock quest in the beginning, you can find an extra dialogue and quest from the game trailer. The reason I call this non-choice is because, well, why would you? For all I know fucking up that giant clock might end up in some sort of transdimensional royal fuckthemups, aka tornados, cats and dogs living together, etc.

So is playing hurr durr fighter, killing important NPCs, being hated by everyone (there's a secret achivo in Steam for that!) and so on.
But if failure can lead to something truly interesting I will be happy to be proven wrong; as I see it though, quests either have one solution or few others which feel like suboptimal choices you probably won't pick.

Many quests just feel like fire and forget - you do them and never return to see consequences of your choices; you do go from cluster of locations A to B to C after all with points of no return spelled out to you by NPCs and a loading screen - that's just how game is designed compared to PS:T where you DO return to Sigil later.
That is not to say some quests are not fun or do not require at least a modicum of brain effort, but I think it's a fact - game "regions" and choices feel disconnected from each other (remember Wasteland 2?).

Which is where we come to the main thing about this game. Its writing and writing of its setting. And the setting itself. And, it is such a multifaceted issue I am not sure I could put it in words correctly, but if I would really try:
It is confusing and dull, it seriously lacking in focus, it's all over the place, it lacks contrast between mundane and surreal, it lacks differentiation between important and noise (although that is same as lacking focus, I think), it pretty much always feels like ideas replace and fail to replicate actual motivations of the characters, it strongly lacks in good and expansive character arcs and in companions (I thought writers made all companions human btw in an elegant way to be not-planescape and make them planescapish inside instead of outside, but no, they are just very bland)
and of course it is too damn wordy all the time.
TTON pretty much throws everything at you at all times. (you can strongly feel it in itemization system btw that just BURY you under oh look how ODDeverythingIs foci, trinkets, baubles, shinies, blackcatties and stuffies)

And it sure should have had a dictionary of its cant inside the game.

And the Tides, which also serve as morality of the game, and ancient technomagic... does anything in the game support/challenge/mix together those concepts except Erritis and his glowing
aura of ancient soldier enhancing nanobots?

But there are people who will explain it a lot better than me and write 7 reviews, so I'll stop here, for now at least. Can't say I am disappointed in the game since one must have high expectations for that, more like, nothing in the game truly "clicked" for me. I always was able to find at least one part of the writing which I could establish connection to and look at the world of the game through it: most of PS:T and TNO's sorrow, Kreia in KOTOR2, Kaelyn and her quest for justice in MoTB; even mysterious soldiers in POE expansion part 2, but it just didn't happen with TTON.
Well, the loli with godrock was cute till the end. Best TTON waifu + Princess Maker simulator achievement (sorry, no actual Princess Maker achievement in Steam, just kidding).

Right before TTON, I played Fallout 1.5 Resurrection. In the second beginner's city, there is a quest about two gangs,
where leader of one of them was actually long dead, killed by his lover who took his place and hidden it; and when you run around a bit and pass some speech checks, you end up looking as she basically shoots her own brains out of terror and sorrow what she has done. I remembered that quest for some reason. Did not remember most of TTON quests.
And that not to mention Witcher 3 and its expansions which I also finished not that long ago and realised that simple human motivations are strongest way of moving the plot and most games with their epic god-turning plots just lack too much in that aspect.

Maybe I'll play some more, see what I missed, but I don't have a very strong desire to.
 
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alkeides 2.0

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
The "big" combat encounters in this game are just poorly designed IMO. The turn-based system means they all go very slowly when new enemies keeps spawning and then it gives more opportunity for the game to crash.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
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May 29, 2010
Messages
35,653
Well, inXile apparently had a huge day one patch today and everyone's save files from playing on release are now incompatible.

Good work. Top notch.

How is it day one when it's day two?
 

canakin

Cipher
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
421
Shit man, I went to game's steam page to relish in the butthurt of people who bought this piece of shit, but I ended up being butthurt myself. There are people whining about game being TB instead RTwP for fucks sake. Also statements like this:

rLnNCZz.png

:negative::negative::negative::negative::negative::negative:
 

IHaveHugeNick

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Messages
1,870,123
My favorite Steam review is guy who rants endlessly about cut content. He played 20 minutes, so clearly didn't have much interest in having lot of content anyway.
 

throwaway

Cipher
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Dec 17, 2013
Messages
492
Christ if this isn't evidence of the Codex getting too big I don't know what is? Is there actually anyone who's read the entire thread and finished the game?
 

Canus

Savant
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Messages
647
I'm in the bloom and it actually feels like PST when you're running around in the later parts of the hive.
it's a well-designed area. I credit everything good about this game so far to George Ziets.

All the companions are garbage, combat is garbage -- BUT I've been able to run through/away from all encounters so far, and I've lost all my companions (told them to go away when they started whining).

what sucks is that now I can't finish a crisis designed around occupying some idiot with a companion because AFAIK there's no way to re-recruit companions in the bloom.
oh and crises suck too.

There is, there's an item that can summon companions to you. If you don't have it, yeah you're screwed.
 

Popiel

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Christ if this isn't evidence of the Codex getting too big I don't know what is? Is there actually anyone who's read the entire thread and finished the game?
I did finish it just a moment ago.

It was an unbelievable shit. Jesus, even I didn't expect this kind of pure decline.
 

Urthor

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Christ if this isn't evidence of the Codex getting too big I don't know what is? Is there actually anyone who's read the entire thread and finished the game?

I have. Someone 10 pages back described the game as less than the sum of its parts, that's pretty fair. The really cool side quests and side characters ingame and cool areas like the Bloom, Valley and Sagus are marred by the frankly terrible turn based combat that InExile is peddling almost 4 years after Wasteland 2 was released, which spoiler alert is unavoidable no matter what you do in the end/midgame, better bring Matkina or Rhin to carry you through.

I don't really hate or dislike the game honestly I think the writing and honestly the overall arc is good, midgame twist was incline, but the way the story ends pretty Mass Effect 3 except they use it to force mandatory end game fights.

Just because you call your fights crisis' doesn't mean they're not combat which you promised your backers could be avoided.


I think you can avoid the Bloom heart crisis if you play your cards right, but I wasn't able to. The first fight is pretty locked in and generically awful wait out an endless assault timer. Ditto the Endless Gate turn based corridor combat, I think you can avoid that if you visit Choi's tomb beforehand and avoid wading through 3 successive crisis.
 

Canus

Savant
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Messages
647
Christ if this isn't evidence of the Codex getting too big I don't know what is? Is there actually anyone who's read the entire thread and finished the game?
I did finish it just a moment ago.

It was an unbelievable shit. Jesus, even I didn't expect this kind of pure decline.
thx for restoring a bit of hope

I just finished it there; actually thought it was quite good. Heavily flawed, particularly in the implementation of things such as combat or the lack of a decent story arc for most of the companions, but overall quite enjoyable once it hits its stride. If you like futuristic/surrealist art it might be worth it just for that aspect of it. Definitely not worth buying for the combat, but it has a good atmosphere, parts of the plot are quite good, or at least enjoyable, and the writing, whilst being about twice as long as it needed to be, generally ranges from good to very good, if rather bland.

Upon review Edge is important, probably the most important upgrade you can get, particularly if every companion cranks it to max in their one stat. I ended the game with 6,000 in gold and 1,000 XP past where the levelling system just suddenly stops, at least before I stopped looking at XP, I'm pretty sure I completed every sidequest in the game, at least barring ones that are hidden or locked in some way. The ability to read minds does appear to have uses other than flavour, but it's hard to tell how much of what happened came from that and what came from my character being perceptive and having the conversation skills. Don't bother investing in combat skills, don't bother investing in skills generally. Same with abilities, apart from picking new ones at tier up. A high enough effort score, and enough edge in your attack stat, will just totally blow the impact of those abilities and skills away. I played a Nano, only put stuff into intellect, edge, and increasing effort, ended with 28/30 intellect, both strength and speed over 10 just from permanent stat boosts I found in the game, something like 50 health, and I could, despite not picking any combat talents apart from Maelstrom and the living balefire one, just eradicate opponents.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
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Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,394
From the other thread, my big disappointment so far:

Inxile narrative designer: "Hey player, come here, come here, I have some things to show you. You know, the story of the Changing God? It is an exciting tale of betrayal, mystery and stuff."
Me: Dude, you already spoilered your plot on the trailer, all you had to say, I already know.
Inxile narrative designer: "But, but, I will tell you more of that stuff and how the Changing God is misterious and a cool antagonist."
Me: "Don't care the slightest... Oh... nice, those robots here are cool, can the story be about them?"
Inxile narrative designer: "But don't you want to know your past? It is cool I promise you."
Me: "My character past or the Changing God past? I don't feel responsible for any of that shit so I couldn't care the slightest."
Inxile narrative designer: "But your companions are curious about you past, don't you care about them?"
Me: "Ohh... nice, those psychic guys on that tavern are incredibly cool, can I joy them?"
Inxile narrative designer: "No, they aren't your companions."
Me: DeepOcean look to the stars with a deep sad feeling of unrealized potential "A pity then."
Inxile narrative designer: "Look, Alligern is trying to say something amusing to you."
Me: "DeepOcean all of sudden has a vivid memory manifest of an old floating skull on an ancient Mortuary "Can you... I dunno, add a floating skull that makes silly jokes on your game?"
Inxile narrative designer: "That would be too silly, from where did you get this strange idea?"
Me: "Nah, just thinking on a silly old game."
Inxile narrative designer: "Hey, we have a companion that is a comic relief character too, name is Arritis, he has a majestic hair..."
Me:"Ohh... those insect people that eat electricity are cool, can I recruit one of them?"
 

Urthor

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Oh yeah I forget.

The fact levels end at tier 4 when the tabletop goes all the way to tier 6 is massive decline.

From the other thread, my big disappointment so far:

Inxile narrative designer: "Hey player, come here, come here, I have some things to show you. You know, the story of the Changing God? It is an exciting tale of betrayal, mystery and stuff."
Me: Dude, you already spoilered your plot on the trailer, all you had to say, I already know.
Inxile narrative designer: "But, but, I will tell you more of that stuff and how the Changing God is misterious and a cool antagonist."
Me: "Don't care the slightest... Oh... nice, those robots here are cool, can the story be about them?"
Inxile narrative designer: "But don't you want to know your past? It is cool I promise you."
Me: "My character past or the Changing God past? I don't feel responsible for any of that shit so I couldn't care the slightest."
Inxile narrative designer: "But your companions are curious about you past, don't you care about them?"
Me: "Ohh... nice, those psychic guys on that tavern are incredibly cool, can I joy them?"
Inxile narrative designer: "No, they aren't your companions."
Me: DeepOcean look to the stars with a deep sad feeling of unrealized potential "A pity then."
Inxile narrative designer: "Look, Alligern is trying to say something amusing to you."
Me: "DeepOcean all of sudden has a vivid memory manifest of an old floating skull on an ancient Mortuary "Can you... I dunno, add a floating skull that makes silly jokes on your game?"
Inxile narrative designer: "That would be too silly, from where did you get this strange idea?"
Me: "Nah, just thinking on a silly old game."
Inxile narrative designer: "Hey, we have a companion that is a comic relief character too, name is Arritis, he has a majestic hair..."
Me:"Ohh... those insect people that eat electricity are cool, can I recruit one of them?"

I want to put this up as a steamreview holy shit my sides. Who do I give original credit to?
 

alkeides 2.0

Arcane
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
Finished it. 15 hours of gameplay time not counting a lot of reloads, which brings it up to around 24.

What I hated the most: really crap "boss" encounters. Already mentioned above. Cause me to reload again and again, due to crashes.

Overall I give it a 3/5.

I have no issue with the writing, I am a pretty fast reader. I found the "flavour" text more engaging than Tyranny or PoE. Character quests were unbalanced though. Seems like it's mostly the male NPCs who got sidequests and it's very limited for the females? Unless I didn't come across them. I didn't take any of the male NPCs with me beyond Sagus because I found their skills didn't complement my PC. Callistege does more damage than Aligern IME, Matkina > Tybir.

I liked Rhin's ending if you managed to send her home.

But yeah DeepOcean's post does make a good point -- what I liked most about the writing was the setting. Interesting races, background history of Numenera. But the actual NPC party members are pretty boring.
 
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