Dominions 4 modding

[Johannes]

But each nation I played so far has these weird shortcomings that simply should be ironed out. And since most of those nations are UW, that's what I can talk about. I could also tell you that Machaka spiders are utterly overpriced, but that's something probably everyone knows already.
A unit that is *never* used should simply not be in the game, or changed to be more useful.

A unit that is never used, like say a 10g naked Pelagian spearman, is quite different from something just being rarely used or hard to recruit. A good aquatic unit has a clear niche - fighting underwater.

Or compare to the spiders, giving them a simple cost reduction is a simple way to buff them. Giving them a new ability out of the blue to make them useful (but totally changing the role they have) would be weird.

An amphibious unit that can be recruited UW should be recruitable on land (at least in coastal regions) as well, no logical reason it shouldn't.
Therodos dancer units have become completely useless in one of the last patches (and they were already poor before).

What is the logic behind the recruitment system in the game then? Looking at land nations, you have different recruits in different terrains, why can't these dudes just walk to be recruited where it's convenient for you? Agartha or Jomon have different recruitment lists underwater just the same. You look at the roster you have - what you can recruit where, then that information will determine how you play the nation and where you will build your forts. Making it more samey is a BSB way of balancing.

Therodos dancers seem totally fine to me, sometimes you want to hire them sometimes not, depending on your bless and other factors too. Even if you can't win games just by spamming them.

Taking care of all those points I could bring up about single UW nations would make all of them a lot more playable without suddenly making them super strong in comparison.

Some UW nations are weak I'll give you that, but I don't agree with your proposed cure. I prefer low-key improvements like changing costs and combat stats, not changing units and rosters into something very different.

 

[thesheeep]

No, not everything is possible. There is a thing called "plausibility", and sharks hunting people on land from within their magical water bubbles that roll wherever they "swim" crashes through it with a roar.

Really, you want to get started on plausibility in Dominions?

Okay...
How is it possible Oceania's Haliades can roam land when the nymph on top wears a magical trinket? Clearly, the hippocampus doesn't suddenly grow another pair of legs. Do they just rob around on land?
How are ice elementals or water based units not taking extra damage in a firestorm or heat scales? Or less damage, depending on how you want to look at it from a RPS perspective.
How are UW units moving merely with MM1 where it is common knowledge that aquatic creatures are moving much faster underwater than animals do on land even in the real world?
Why can a Treelord only have 2 misc items? It is pretty clear the dude has arms at the very least and in his many branches there would surely be enough space to put a few rings, no?
Why can you equip a Divine Name'd Gelatinous Cube with a mechanical arm - and it can make use of it? All the other items are certainly only floating around aimlessly in his... body.
Why can assassins and sirens not target specific commanders?
How can every commander reach the arena within the same turn? Where is that arena, even?
Why can a magic carpet not give an immobile pretender like a Demilich mobility? I'm sure someone would be kind enough to put the bones on the rug before liftoff.
Why does the Ancient Kraken have only four hands, not eight? And on topic, why is a Gift Of Reason'd normal Kraken not even able to use a single sword?

And those were just from the top of my head.

Bonus: The description of Amulet of the Fish: "This amulet turns the air into water all around the wearer. This will enable an aquatic being to breathe and even swim on dry land." How implausible is this shit, eh?
I mean... In this setting cold scales make water elementals turn to ice. Care to extend it to magic water bubbles? How about heat and firestorms, shouldn't they, uh, vaporize?

The answer to all of these is "magic" theme-wise and/or "balancing"/"lack-of-balancing" design wise. And that's fine. No one is complaining.
The game is already full of hilariously implausible things as-is when you stop for a while to think about it.
There's no need to pretend fishes roaming the land floating around in water bubbles would suddenly make the game ridiculous or less plausible. Everything is ridiculous if you want to look at it that way.
If the devs would implement such a mass-air-breathing item, certainly nobody would even think of raising "plausibility" questions other than for shits and giggles.

Therodos dancers seem totally fine to me, sometimes you want to hire them sometimes not, depending on your bless and other factors too.

When would you ever want to hire them? Really, ever?
They are just plain bad. Size 3 means they cannot form a tight line and are easily beaten by normal, smaller units, and even if they were size 2 it doesn't matter because they break formation and charge ahead the moment they get blessed. And even if they wouldn't it doesn't matter because they are impossible to mass.
And the land counterparts are even worse, stat-wise.
Only a heavy bless makes them somewhat capable. But nobody goes ahead with a heavy bless strategy for a nation with a single sacret unit you can recruit 2 of every turn. And it is the only recruitable sacred troop in Therodos' roster.
Their specter versions are pretty good, and free, but you need high Dom and scales dump and a lot of luck to even get them. A bless strategy for Therodos just doesn't make sense (any more, it may have been useful before the weird recruitment limitation).
Trust me, I want to like the dancers, the lore is wonderful! But it just doesn't work.

Therodos is a one-trick pony, and that trick is not spending a single gold coin on troops (except mages & commanders, of course), instead putting it all into specter-pumping forts.

I prefer low-key improvements like changing costs and combat stats, not changing units and rosters into something very different.

By all means, do it that way. I just don't think that alone will suffice in all cases.

 

[Johannes]

Therodos dancers seem totally fine to me, sometimes you want to hire them sometimes not, depending on your bless and other factors too.

When would you ever want to hire them? Really, ever?
They are just plain bad. Size 3 means they cannot form a tight line and are easily beaten by normal, smaller units, and even if they were size 2 it doesn't matter because they break formation and charge ahead the moment they get blessed. And even if they wouldn't it doesn't matter because they are impossible to mass.
And the land counterparts are even worse, stat-wise.
Only a heavy bless makes them somewhat capable. But nobody goes ahead with a heavy bless strategy for a nation with a single sacret unit you can recruit 2 of every turn. And it is the only recruitable sacred troop in Therodos' roster.
Their specter versions are pretty good, and free, but you need high Dom and scales dump and a lot of luck to even get them. A bless strategy for Therodos just doesn't make sense (any more, it may have been useful before the weird recruitment limitation).
Trust me, I want to like the dancers, the lore is wonderful! But it just doesn't work.

Therodos is a one-trick pony, and that trick is not spending a single gold coin on troops (except mages & commanders, of course), instead putting it all into specter-pumping forts.

They work great with the specters. The undead form the main battle line which the dancers (of either kind) flank. They hit much harder than the spectres which are hopeless to use on their own against any kind of real army. You may not get as many of them as you'd like but then you're not pouring much any money into it either. Skipping recruitment just to buy forts that'll pay themselves back in spectre production in... How many turns exactly? There's also diminishing returns to how many spectres you can use sensibly.

For their bless, you have to think what are you using design points for exactly? Your dominion is dying anyway so going with shit scales makes sense (and don't need Prod either to build them). Awake pretender naturally, but you can and should afford some magic on that - say a F4W4 bless on a Father of Monsters. Or in a disciple game the possibilities are limitless.

Not the best sacred ever, but usually a decent use of the little gold it takes to max them.

 

[mondblut]

Okay, I'll bite.

How is it possible Oceania's Haliades can roam land when the nymph on top wears a magical trinket? Clearly, the hippocampus doesn't suddenly grow another pair of legs. Do they just rob around on land?

Actually, all hippocampi do exactly that, if you look at any of their other cavalry units (amphibian). It's the nymph herself who refuses to leave the sea according to the lore and needs help.

How are ice elementals or water based units not taking extra damage in a firestorm or heat scales? Or less damage, depending on how you want to look at it from a RPS perspective.

Water elementals do have fire res. Ice elementals, well, melt back into water elementals in heat scales. It would be cool and reasonable if ice elementals would changeshape into water elementals from fire damage, indeed.

How are UW units moving merely with MM1 where it is common knowledge that aquatic creatures are moving much faster underwater than animals do on land even in the real world?

Standart Dominions mapgen setting is that UW provinces are 4 times as large as land provinces. Physically UW MM1 more often than not equals MM2 or 3 on land, in terms of both graphic size and province connections.

Why can a Treelord only have 2 misc items? It is pretty clear the dude has arms at the very least and in his many branches there would surely be enough space to put a few rings, no?

He doesn't have arms. I'd say misc items are placed into the hollows. As for how many hollows are there, it's Illwinter's fiat. They could settle at 10, or none at all; they arbitrarily picked 2 as most other commanders have.

Why can you equip a Divine Name'd Gelatinous Cube with a mechanical arm - and it can make use of it? All the other items are certainly only floating around aimlessly in his... body.

The arm seems to have a life of its own, seeing as it can be attached to anything and function just as fine. I mean, if you plug it into a human, would he suddenly develop an exotic skill of fighting three-armed? Doubt so. So it fights on its own, like dancing trident or shield.

Why can assassins and sirens not target specific commanders?

They can. You can't, because you never fully know what specific commanders are there. They are in the midst of enemy territory and make decisions on their own.

How can every commander reach the arena within the same turn? Where is that arena, even?

Not of this world, obviously.

Why can a magic carpet not give an immobile pretender like a Demilich mobility? I'm sure someone would be kind enough to put the bones on the rug before liftoff.

Agreed. This would make a lot of sense, absolutely.

Why does the Ancient Kraken have only four hands, not eight? And on topic, why is a Gift Of Reason'd normal Kraken not even able to use a single sword?

Because normal kraken doesn't have arms to hold the hilts. Now how come ancient kraken does, beats me. Unless it is described as a weird mutant with palms on the end of 4 of his tentacles, they are stretching it here.

Bonus: The description of Amulet of the Fish: "This amulet turns the air into water all around the wearer. This will enable an aquatic being to breathe and even swim on dry land." How implausible is this shit, eh?

Well, Illwinter, this is officially retarded.

I only used the amulet on Bishop Fishes, who are standing upright on their sprite and are probably hilariously hopping around on their tail, with their MM1 and all. If I saw it on a fucking GoRed giant shark running about on land, I'd delete the game forever

There's no need to pretend fishes roaming the land floating around in water bubbles would suddenly make the game ridiculous or less plausible. Everything is ridiculous if you want to look at it that way.
If the devs would implement such a mass-air-breathing item, certainly nobody would even think of raising "plausibility" questions other than for shits and giggles.

I would.

I mean, there is a plenty of aquatic creatures who could theoretically physically move on land given an ability to breath, but there is also a plenty who absolutely couldn't, and it would do mighty good for the game to tell them apart. Like vampires who can't ever enter the water, waterbreathing or not.

 

[Malakal]

They just swim on land, easy. Its magic you aint gotta explain shit.

 

[thesheeep]

They hit much harder than the spectres which are hopeless to use on their own against any kind of real army.

Chaff is always hopeless to use on their own against a real army. But spectres rock. They have exactly one downside, which is their morale, but that's about it.*
I didn't believe it at first, either, but when you see a line of 10-20 free spectres holding off 50+ or more of other units without any support, your opinion will change.

I could only see the hitting harder of additional dancers making any difference early on (later your 2 dancers per turn won't matter as you will have hundreds/thousands of spectres). But early on, your spectres already are a scary force on their own due to no good counters available yet (except blessed troops like Jaguar Warriors). You can't banish them, too high MR (many tried, it has never worked well). Hell, you wouldn't even need an awake pretender because the starting spectre army can actually expand blindly on turn 1. Against UW indies, which are usually far stronger than land ones. Who else can do that?
So when dancers would actually make a difference in damage output due to the low troop numbers - they aren't needed because the chaff is strong enough. Eventually, a specter will hit, they don't suffer from fatigue so there is enough time to wear down early forces. And the money, as said, is better invested in long-term plans.

I could only see myself using them when defending against a very early attack, before the second fort is up. And IMO such a fancy unit deserves to be more useful.

I have done this often enough, it is relatively fool proof. Spectres and forts will carry you through early and mid game and your death dominion is scaled down enough to not pose an immediate threat to neighbors (but of course, diplo varies so if you get unlucky you will get ganged upon).
Therodos' problem is late game because of severely lacking mage recruitment (I haven't yet found a good way around that, except getting lucky with gems so you can summon mages...). Thousands of spectres don't matter once firestorms are coming up
The uselessness of dancers is annoying, but not actually a problem.

*With Therodos, you will lose fights because your undead chaff is routing

Skipping recruitment just to buy forts that'll pay themselves back in spectre production in... How many turns exactly? There's also diminishing returns to how many spectres you can use sensibly.

Who cares how long it takes until the forts pay off?
You are Therodos. Nobody can throw you out of the game early on because you are UW and most likely have an awake pretender. Except other UW nations, but those would have to really go for you from the very start, and do so combined, ignoring all diplo. I have never seen that happening.
By the time mid-game hits you should have ~7-10 forts, if not more and can pump out nice chaff to direct at something worthwhile.

Okay, I'll bite.

Can't believe you did that.
Don't you see it is utterly useless to discuss this into the finest detail? We'd just be turning in circles defined by when someone decides that factor X is too much for him to suspend his disbelief.
Why you think this specific feature is too implausible, I'll simply never understand.

I mean, there is a plenty of aquatic creatures who could theoretically physically move on land given an ability to breath, but there is also a plenty who absolutely couldn't, and it would do mighty good for the game to tell them apart. Like vampires who can't ever enter the water, waterbreathing or not.

Fine with me if only some got the ability. Any improvement is for the better

 

[Johannes]

Who cares how long it takes until the forts pay off?

Therodos' problem is late game because of severely lacking mage recruitment (I haven't yet found a good way around that, except getting lucky with gems so you can summon mages...). Thousands of spectres don't matter once firestorms are coming up

You don't see the contradiction here?

 

[thesheeep]

Who cares how long it takes until the forts pay off?

Therodos' problem is late game because of severely lacking mage recruitment (I haven't yet found a good way around that, except getting lucky with gems so you can summon mages...). Thousands of spectres don't matter once firestorms are coming up

You don't see the contradiction here?

Eh, I worded that poorly. There is no contradiction.
It certainly doesn't take until late game when the forts pay off (assuming very high Dom and death scales). And assuming late game is when people start hitting 7+ in research. And even then, you can raid the hell out of everything with 100+ spectre groups.
Also, even in late game, you still need chaff, it is just not capable anymore of doing much besides delaying the enemy. And in the case of Therodos, your chaff doesn't cost precious monees you need for mages (if you did happen to find some sites with mage recruitment).

I was also too hasty with my second quoted statement. Spectres have high MR to begin with and can have their protection as well as their MR and elemental res easily buffed.
If there is any chaff that can hold its ground for quite a while in late game, it's specters. Again, I don't pull this out of my ass, I did this. Actually specifically against firestorm + misc magic. Basically there were two big ass battles against a firestorming enemy doing its last stand. In the first, I learned that barkskin is not a good idea against fire In the second, I was doing pretty well - sure, a thousand spectres died, but another survived... to hit the turn limit only a few turns before slaying the pretender.
FFS I always mix up specter vs spectre... stupid English!

Consider also the alternatives. Not putting up forts where you can, but instead wasting money on normal troops (coastal ones that are decent as well as dancer traps). In late game, your income will be extremely minimal from alive troops eating the little gold that you have in addition to the mages. Same for research - since forts also spawn about half of your bread and butter researchers. And you are still essentially in the same situation of getting exactly one somewhat capable mage every two turns. And you have far less troops around, because of too few forts.
Seems to me clearly inferior to the situation you'd be in if you relied on forts & spectres.

If I did not rely on forts&spectres, I would instead go for coastal recruitment.

To be blunt, I don't see a way to actually win a game with Therodos*, but actually lasting to late game in Dominions is IMO already quite the achievement.

*even if you disagree about the other stuff, surely you can see the problem of a nation being able to recruit a max of one non-shitty mage every two turns. So if you want to change something, change that

 

[Johannes]

Who cares how long it takes until the forts pay off?

Therodos' problem is late game because of severely lacking mage recruitment (I haven't yet found a good way around that, except getting lucky with gems so you can summon mages...). Thousands of spectres don't matter once firestorms are coming up

You don't see the contradiction here?

Eh, I worded that poorly. There is no contradiction.
It certainly doesn't take until late game when the forts pay off (assuming very high Dom and death scales). And assuming late game is when people start hitting 7+ in research. And even then, you can raid the hell out of everything with 100+ spectre groups.
Also, even in late game, you still need chaff, it is just not capable anymore of doing much besides delaying the enemy. And in the case of Therodos, your chaff doesn't cost precious monees you need for mages (if you did happen to find some sites with mage recruitment).

I was also too hasty with my second quoted statement. Spectres have high MR to begin with and can have their protection as well as their MR and elemental res easily buffed.
If there is any chaff that can hold its ground for quite a while in late game, it's specters. Again, I don't pull this out of my ass, I did this. Actually specifically against firestorm + misc magic. Basically there were two big ass battles against a firestorming enemy doing its last stand. In the first, I learned that barkskin is not a good idea against fire In the second, I was doing pretty well - sure, a thousand spectres died, but another survived... to hit the turn limit only a few turns before slaying the pretender.
FFS I always mix up specter vs spectre... stupid English!

Consider also the alternatives. Not putting up forts where you can, but instead wasting money on normal troops (coastal ones that are decent as well as dancer traps). In late game, your income will be extremely minimal from alive troops eating the little gold that you have in addition to the mages. Same for research - since forts also spawn about half of your bread and butter researchers. And you are still essentially in the same situation of getting exactly one somewhat capable mage every two turns. And you have far less troops around, because of too few forts.
Seems to me clearly inferior to the situation you'd be in if you relied on forts & spectres.

If I did not rely on forts&spectres, I would instead go for coastal recruitment.

To be blunt, I don't see a way to actually win a game with Therodos*, but actually lasting to late game in Dominions is IMO already quite the achievement.

It's pretty trivial to survive to lategame as an UW nation, if you're the only UW nation in the game. Just turtle and nobody can much touch you, sure... This takes next to no skill or planning, actually getting out of the water and winning is the hard part. As you admit your strategy can't win games, so any chance of reaching that, however slim or risky, is an improvement. Even if it also introduces a slight risk of getting eliminated before someone else wins, which is irrelevant imo.

Your economic thinking is pretty limited. You're not wasting money on troops if you're using them! As a popkill nation who needs gold, you need to constantly go out there and conquer new shit. For that you need returns on some of your gold now rather than in 15-20 turns. And the sacreds are a better bet usually than the basic chaff coastal recruits, who don't offer you anything that'd be qualitatively different from the specrtres.

Yes, this is hard to do properly but at least when you fight, you have a chance to win. Resign yourself to turtling underwater, you're sure to lose.

*even if you disagree about the other stuff, surely you can see the problem of a nation being able to recruit a max of one non-shitty mage every two turns. So if you want to change something, change that

Agreed.

 

[thesheeep]

Yes, this is hard to do properly but at least when you fight, you have a chance to win. Resign yourself to turtling underwater, you're sure to lose.

Well, yeah...
But who said anything about not putting those spectres to use? You don't build many forts to then sit on them idly, that takes no skill at all indeed. And it would be kinda boring.
No, the forts are there so you can establish a hopefully constant supply line to wherever you need it at the moment. The "heart" of your nation has many forts, and then comes a bit of nothing stretching to the frontier with maybe a fort here and there depending on tactics.

It's really not that different from other nations:
It just takes a bit longer to build up (which being an UW nation IMO usually makes up for, you just don't have that hurry early game, one of the reasons I prefer UW).
You have that "fortified" core of your lands that normal nations don't (why would you put forts up all around your cap, usually?)
And you do not need to click on the recruit button all too often

I definitely agree that it is a rather low-risk strategy, but as said before, I think it is still stronger than going for troop recruitment due to the "special" nature of what Therodos can actually recruit early on. Which is two units per turn for UW combat. And two units + handful of spectres each turn just isn't enough, so you are forced to prioritize another fort anyway - and thus the game of castle building begins.

Removing that absurd 2 dancer limit would probably already be enough to make it useful. Speaking of which, can a mod change that?

Off-topic: one thing that wasn't talked about concerning Therodos is that you are actually a land nation starting UW. Your most-recruited mages (with a crafting bonus as well as resource bonus) are only available on coasts, making your coastal forts actually far more valuable than UW forts. And in all games I played, my UW realm was actually smaller than the land part.
I think that's quite a unique attribute to Therodos.

 

[Johannes]

Yes, the recruitment limit is changeable. But as far as I'm concerned it'd go straight against Illwinter's concept so I don't like that idea. But that you only get 2 a turn doesn't make the unit notably worse (though less bless-worty). It just makes the impact on the game smaller - you won't have too many of them, but neither will they cost much anything in any way that'd slow your fort building. Rather you should end up with just as much or more gold as they help you take more provinces. A sensible buff to the dancers would be upping their stats somehow imo.

Sidenote: I very often build forts next to my cap. Ofc if your nation is resource-limited in building a good cap only unit you might not want that, but that's actually not true for most nations (sacreds are more often capped by holy points already).

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Anyone here know if there's a thread for the dom4 community game ? and if so, be so kind to link it ? :]

 

[thesheeep]

That one?
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/dominions-4-intercommunity-game.113099/

 

[Dayyālu]

Anyone here know if there's a thread for the dom4 community game ? and if so, be so kind to link it ? :]

You won't find much data. I'm subbing on it and I barely have any idea what is going on as everything is on Discord for the cool kids. Not that I care, I merely have to keep up the expansion tempo while sqeecoo enjoys Cambodian whores.

Thanks sum1won for making the game obscure to the masses, by the way. Top-tier skills.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

That one?
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/dominions-4-intercommunity-game.113099/

Thanks !

 

[Malakal]

Speaking of the mod: you should try making more spells useful rather than nerfing the already good spells. Sure RoS and EQ are great but it would be better to bring more spells up to par rather than nerfing those two.

Also summons. A lot of summons are overpriced and too weak. For example sea king court trolls are awful for their price, some weapons/armor like on the land equivalent would go a long way.

 

[Johannes]

Speaking of the mod: you should try making more spells useful rather than nerfing the already good spells. Sure RoS and EQ are great but it would be better to bring more spells up to par rather than nerfing those two.

Imo, that's the right way to go 95% of the time. But some things are just so strong it'd get ridiculous to pump everything to near their level. RoS getting nerfed makes sense, whereas EQ is fine where it's at - most of all the caster level required makes the difference. Even a harder to cast RoS is a tremendous spell, when it is used.

I know, not a lot of suggestions, but bloated mods with controversial decisions (SumMod) aren't my cup of tea.

What exactly do you mean by bloated - the quantity or the quality of the changes?

 

[Malakal]

But RoS only kills stuff with low protection and hp and is absolutely ineffective with medium-high protection units.

Many people complain that light cavalry/infantry with low resource costs dominate the game. It is true, stuff like revelers is rightfully considered OP. But its also countered by RoS as are mage doom balls.

 

[Johannes]

RoS is still easy to use if you nerf it a bit, like by putting it as A1E4. A1E2 can still cast it with Earthpower, just not on the first round. For that you need a better mage or another booster. You can still destroy those mage balls with it, but it won't be so trivial to pepper all your border provinces with RoS casters.

I don't think it's good for the game overall that you can destroy mageballs as easily as good RoS nations currently can, considering for many nations, big armies with frail mages is the only real lategame they have.

 

[Maggot]

Nerf glamour it's gay as hell

 

[Malakal]

Fairly sure its hard coded as an ability.

Plus stealth is as gay. And flying.

 

[Harpsichord]

Keep glamour great, Van & Tuatha master race!

That said, I dunno if stealth can be said to be 'as gay' when every unit with glamour also has stealth.

 

[Malakal]

Keep glamour great, Van & Tuatha master race!

That said, I dunno if stealth can be said to be 'as gay' when every unit with glamour also has stealth.

Morvarc'h knights dont have stealth only glamour.

 

[Johannes]

Pretender rebalance draft:


Basically take the current most cost-effective pretenders, like Demilich, cheaper immobiles, cheap expanders like Wyrm. So only the most blatant things are nerfed, like the Cloaked Faggot. This makes it somewhat power-creepy but thats better than nerfing shit all around imo. This means that alot of stuff that really can be considered viable already is buffed, too. But nothing's changed too drastically in cost, 50 pts at most I think.

Only things that are changed are cost and pathcost, with the exception of Idol of Men (the FAN paths are just useless on an immobile, FWN makes it interesting without making it ridiculusly cheap).

Power approximations to what deserves to be 10 or 20 points better or worse, are ofc really tiny differences. You may rank them differently, hell I'd probably rank them a tad differently on another day. But as long as nothing's blatantly over- or underpriced, that's ok. For the Titans I paid some more individual attention per pretender, ranking them approximately according to their special effects and paths. They're still all p. close together in cost ultimately, 1 scale ain't that gamechanging. For the Dom4/2/1 pretenders I made more use of making a general rule to identify and modify the weaker pretenders.


Does it seem better than vanilla, what details seem weird / imbalanced / unthematic /whatever?

DOM 4

Colossal Fetish 240 -> 200 pts
Statue of the Underworld 190 -> 140 pts
Idol of Men F1A1N1 -> F1W1N1
Father of the Sea 190 -> 200 pts
Protogenos of the Sea 210 -> 200 pts

All immobile chassii reduced to 170 pts if they costed more than that originally.


DOM 3

Titans that cost 230 pts.:
Allfather
Earth Made Flesh
Teotl of the Night
Viracocha

Titans that cost 220 pts.:
Dagon
Cyclops
Neter of the Moon
Ahura of Wisdom
Void Lord
Hun Came
Son of the Sea
Old Man of the Sea

Titans that cost 210 pts.:
Annunaki of Love and War
Lord of the Wild
Titan of War and Wisdom
Titan of Serpents and Medicine
Fomorian God King
Angra Mainyu
Nataraja
Apu Inti

Titans that cost 200 pts.:
Annunaki of Sweet Waters
Annunaki of Growth and Rebirth
Annunaki of the Moon
Annunaki of the Morning Star
Neter of Crafts
Neteret of Many Names
Neter of the Sun
Neter of Kings
Neteret of Joy
Great Mother
Son of the Fallen
Tiwaz of War
Titan of Love
Titan of Rivers
Titan of Winds and Waves
Titan of the Underworld
Forge Lord
Titan of the Sea
Drakaina
Lord of the Waves
Father of Monsters
Father of Winters
Volla of the Bountiful Forest
Horned One
Asynja (AN)
Son of Niefel
Devi of Good Fortunes
Devi of Darkness
Celestial Carp
Celestial General
Teteo Inan
Teotl of the Underworld

Titans that cost 190 pts.:
Apu Ilapa
Titan of Heaven
Titan of Death and Rebirth
Asynja (AE)
Keeper of the Bridge
Lord of the Forest
Jade Emperor
Nyorai
Teotl of Rain
Teotl of the Sky
Teotl of War
Oni Kunshu

Titans that cost 180 pts.:
Annunaki of the Sky
Annunaki of the Underworld
Solar Disk
Lord of the Summer Plague
Lord of the Desert Sun
Neter of Chaos
Neter of the Underworld
Mother of Monsters
Destroyer of Worlds
Nerid

Allfather 40 -> 30 pathcost
Son of the Fallen 60 -> 30 pathcost
All other Titans 60 -> 50 pathcost
Titan of Serpents and Medicine - Disease Healer -> Healer
Asynja (AN) - Disease Healer -> Healer


DOM 2

Floating Mind +20 pts
Drakon -20 pts
Linnormr -20 pts
Sea Dragon -20 pts
Dragons -40 pts (Eastern, Western, Azi, Dracolich, Carrion)
Dom2 monsters with 2/3 slots who can't expand well (though some may be able to do so with care), set to 90 pts., unless they already cost less than that

Divine Emperor -30 pts
Prince of Death -50 pts
Melqart -40 pts, pathcost 60 -> 30
Yazad King -50 pts, pathcost 40 -> 30
Sapa Inca -50 pts, pathcost 40 -> 30
Hooded Spirit +40 pts
Lich Queen -20 pts
Other Dom2 liches -30 pts
Telkhine God-King -20 pts
All other dom2 full slots chassis -40pts or to 160 pts, whichever is higher. Such pretenders costing <160 pts unchanged.


DOM 1

Vampire Queen -30 pts
Bitch Queen -50 pts
Svartalf Mastersmith -20 pts
Smoking Mirror -20 pts
Lawgiver -20 pts
Great Enchantress -30 pts
Great Sage -20 pts
All other Rainbows -40 pts

 

[Johannes]

So I made / updated some mods.

Pretenders
http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=3278

Everything else
http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=3307