Eternity Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Pre-Release Thread [BETA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[fobia]

Yeah, I'm puzzled with that too, why don't they put China first based on this chart? It seems to be a great investment, and I personally would instantly pledge (glorified pre-order kek) it if it's available in Chinese for language training. Not to mention that translation between simplified and traditional Chinese can be done almost instantly with machine translation too.
But then again, they probably haven't found any good translation services yet (translating English to Asian languages, and vice versa are notoriously hard).

For some reason I'm too stupid to find the original post, but it is for PC games in general, or specifically CRPGs?
Because there might be a big difference.
From personal experience, chinese gamers I know, have no knowledge about or are interested in most "western" RPGs, except maybe hyped stuff like FO4.

 

[2house2fly]

brennecke
DEVELOPER

It should read "The Deadfire Archipelago spans thousands of miles and is comprised of hundreds of islands". This was not Paul's fault - we introduced the typo when transcribing it over to the fig website.

Somebody needs to tell them about copy-paste.

Lol, it was obvious what it meant and it was a minor typo. Did someone get worked up enough that they felt the need to clarify whose "fault" it was?

 

[Quillon]

John Lewis is doing things that will blow your mind. A typical day at Obsidian.

I'm working on something in my office and I see John Lewis flashing a devilish grin at me through the glass of my closed door. He opens the door and sheepishly asks, "Do you want to see something cool?"

Being the ever-eloquent linguist I reply, "****, yeah".

Minutes later, sporting the same grin John was just rocking, I go by Sawyer's office and I'm like, "Dude, cruise by Lewis' office".

Josh's eyes light up cuz he knows some fancy-pants, John Lewis magic is afoot.

Minutes later Josh is walking passed my office with a new spring in his step and an emphatic nod, looking like he just crushed the question in Final Jeopardy.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/91197-so-who-is-working-on-the-game/?p=1883293

 

[Sigourn]

No, playing Tyranny did that to me. No need for MCA to pay me, I'll do it for free if it means Obsidian gets rid of its current hack "writers". I seriously hope they get rid of prose all together, or at least reduce it significantly so I don't have to read cringe-worthy descriptions of sensations that don't make any sense.

To be honest I never understood where did the whole thing of "describe someone's beard" came from. It's not like being told someone's beard is bushy will change our perception of that person. There's good prose and bad prose: if the info is unnecessary, it is decidedly bad. And sadly, lately almost all prose is unnecessary.

 

[Pirata Alma Negra]

Obsidian has too much scrupulous to not throw Tim and Leonard into the fray.

 

[badler]

Yeah, I'm puzzled with that too, why don't they put China first based on this chart? It seems to be a great investment, and I personally would instantly pledge (glorified pre-order kek) it if it's available in Chinese for language training. Not to mention that translation between simplified and traditional Chinese can be done almost instantly with machine translation too.
But then again, they probably haven't found any good translation services yet (translating English to Asian languages, and vice versa are notoriously hard).

I haven't asked the team why they chose the languages that they did but it isn't as simple as just choosing whatever languages have the highest potential customer base. A few things to note:

• As an example, in terms of number of unit sales for PoE, Russia was very high. In terms of the amount of money made from a region, it was much lower than you would expect. I am not sure how much it would have to be sold for in China, but I would assume it would have to be less than Western markets and that may make it less attractive, even with a larger potential user base.
  
• China has a bunch of restrictions regarding selling products in their region. Likely it would require Obsidian to partner up with a Chinese company for distribution. I am kind of talking out of my ass here, though, since I have never had to deal with this directly.
• Speaking to the restrictions, Obsidian may have to censor a lot of content and provide special builds. Not impossible, but it costs money and time.
  
• Sometimes translating a game into a language for a region that has large amounts of piracy can actually damage sales. Anecdotally, I've read that piracy is high in China so that may have something to do with it.
• I haven't done the research, but maybe these type of RPGs don't do well in China.

I assume it is a mixture of the above.

 

[Fairfax]

As an example, in terms of number of unit sales for PoE, Russia was very high. In terms of the amount of money made from a region, it was much lower than you would expect. I am not sure how much it would have to be sold for in China, but I would assume it would have to be less than Western markets and that may make it less attractive, even with a larger potential user base.

Yes, the price has to be lower in some regions in order to avoid piracy. Russia, China and India usually have the lowest prices because of that.

Speaking to the restrictions, Obsidian may have to censor a lot of content and provide special builds. Not impossible, but it costs money and time.

In some regions, yes, but TW3 was not censored in China, only the Middle East and Japan for nudity IIRC. Not a concern with PoE, I assume.

Sometimes translating a game into a language for a region that has large amounts of piracy can actually damage sales. Anecdotally, I've read that piracy is high in China so that may have something to do with it.

The piracy has more to do with pricing. For instance, Fallout 4 has a Brazilian Portuguese translation, but it sold very poorly here because of the insanely high price.

I haven't done the research, but maybe these type of RPGs don't do well in China.

The only CRPGs on Steam which support Chinese were made in China, so it's hard to say how much the translation would boost sales. The demand is there, though. China has the 7th largest share for D:OS, for example.

 

[Infinitron]

Feargus
DEVELOPER

I'd love to get everyone an update on Tyranny, but that's something that has to come from Paradox. However, I'm hoping to have a update about Tyranny and the Deadfire campaign very soon.

Tyranny add-on incoming.

 

[Lacrymas]

I don't think anybody cares about Tranny anymore, I certainly forgot about its existence.

 

[LESS T_T]

About the China thing: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Lisa...e_Standalone_Games_and_Dota_2_for_a_Price.php

Steam is unique in China in that it doesn’t follow the same rules that other game stores must follow. This means that publishing a game on Steam works the same way in China as it does in the West, and there is currently no regulation on the Chinese Steam store from the government. This has led to certain games like Grand Theft Auto V being distributed via Steam in China with no issues when really it would be banned on any other Chinese games service. There is no real reason for why Steam is still allowed in China but many speculate it could be due to Perfect World backing Dota 2, which requires a Steam account. Microsoft doesn’t have the same privilege and were forced to remove Gears of War 4 from the Chinese Windows 10 store for being too violent. Yet Grand Theft Auto V is still on the Steam China store.

[...]

The fact that Steam had banned games peaked the curiosity of a few Chinese gamers who wanted to try out this platform and this led to many of them purchasing their second game on Steam, Grand Theft Auto V. Grand Theft Auto V (GTA V) already had a huge presence globally and was marketed as the game to experience the American way of life. GTA V had a localized Chinese version and was considerably cheaper than the Western version of the game. The popularity of the game in China led to many live streamers playing the game on their channel and this in turn led to many more creating Steam accounts to buy and play the game.

But who knows how long this state will lasts?: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Ryan..._Sell_Games_in_China_While_They_Still_Can.php

However the window may be closing on indie and PC game developers in general. As previously mentioned, the Chinese government takes games seriously. They have a government body that regulates each and every game that is released on consoles, and recently this also affected games that were to be released on the app store. This substantially slows down game launches as publishers and studios have to jump through numerous hoops before to release their games. Publishers and large game companies have representation that can explain to them how best to go through the process, but small indies like us will be shit out of luck. A recent government pronouncement has already started moving in this direction, so it may not be long before Steam's free pass gets revoked, and it gets much harder to release games beyond the Great Firewall.

Tech Conglomerate Tencent has muddied up the waters even more as it launched a Steam competitor called TGP and plans to launch a gaming console. TGP is restricted by the same government rules as Sony and Xbox, but it understands the Chinese market better and has every opportunity to replace Steam as the go-to platform for PC gaming.

 

[Fry]

I don't think anybody cares about Tranny anymore, I certainly forgot about its existence.

You should probably extend your "anybody" bubble beyond the Codex. People in Fig comments who Obsidian knows to be paying customers seem to care, so...

 

[badler]

I don't doubt that there are a large number of people willing to buy the product in China. My main point was that you can't just look at the number of users/customers on that chart and think that one sale of the game in China is equivalent to one sale of the game in Germany. I think very few people at Obsidian are currently equipped to launch a product in China. Not that we couldn't do it, but there would be some growing pains as we learned all of the ins and outs. That extra layer of complication is probably one of the reasons that they chose to do other languages.

Like I said earlier, though, I am not sure what additional languages are planned in future stretch goals. Maybe Simplified/Traditional Chinese is in there.

 

[badler]

About the China thing: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Lisa...e_Standalone_Games_and_Dota_2_for_a_Price.php

Steam is unique in China in that it doesn’t follow the same rules that other game stores must follow. This means that publishing a game on Steam works the same way in China as it does in the West, and there is currently no regulation on the Chinese Steam store from the government. This has led to certain games like Grand Theft Auto V being distributed via Steam in China with no issues when really it would be banned on any other Chinese games service. There is no real reason for why Steam is still allowed in China but many speculate it could be due to Perfect World backing Dota 2, which requires a Steam account. Microsoft doesn’t have the same privilege and were forced to remove Gears of War 4 from the Chinese Windows 10 store for being too violent. Yet Grand Theft Auto V is still on the Steam China store.

[...]

The fact that Steam had banned games peaked the curiosity of a few Chinese gamers who wanted to try out this platform and this led to many of them purchasing their second game on Steam, Grand Theft Auto V. Grand Theft Auto V (GTA V) already had a huge presence globally and was marketed as the game to experience the American way of life. GTA V had a localized Chinese version and was considerably cheaper than the Western version of the game. The popularity of the game in China led to many live streamers playing the game on their channel and this in turn led to many more creating Steam accounts to buy and play the game.

But who knows how long this state will lasts?: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Ryan..._Sell_Games_in_China_While_They_Still_Can.php

However the window may be closing on indie and PC game developers in general. As previously mentioned, the Chinese government takes games seriously. They have a government body that regulates each and every game that is released on consoles, and recently this also affected games that were to be released on the app store. This substantially slows down game launches as publishers and studios have to jump through numerous hoops before to release their games. Publishers and large game companies have representation that can explain to them how best to go through the process, but small indies like us will be shit out of luck. A recent government pronouncement has already started moving in this direction, so it may not be long before Steam's free pass gets revoked, and it gets much harder to release games beyond the Great Firewall.

Tech Conglomerate Tencent has muddied up the waters even more as it launched a Steam competitor called TGP and plans to launch a gaming console. TGP is restricted by the same government rules as Sony and Xbox, but it understands the Chinese market better and has every opportunity to replace Steam as the go-to platform for PC gaming.

That's interesting information. I wouldn't have expected that. Thanks for the links.

 

[Infinitron]

I think very few people at Obsidian are currently equipped to launch a product in China. Not that we couldn't do it, but there would be some growing pains as we learned all of the ins and outs. That extra layer of complication is probably one of the reasons that they chose to do other languages.

As opposed to Korea?

 

[Kem0sabe]

Sound and Music Design Interview Justin Bell Obsidian Entertainment

 

[Lacrymas]

You should probably extend your "anybody" bubble beyond the Codex. People in Fig comments who Obsidian knows to be paying customers seem to care, so...

Opinions beyond the Codex are decline anyway :p

 

[TT1]

I really like Tyranny.



¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[badler]

I think very few people at Obsidian are currently equipped to launch a product in China. Not that we couldn't do it, but there would be some growing pains as we learned all of the ins and outs. That extra layer of complication is probably one of the reasons that they chose to do other languages.

As opposed to Korea?

We worked with a third party to do the original Korean translation for PoE. They were in charge of the localization and distribution for that region. Plus, we have already put in all of the work to support Korean in the base game.

I assume we will work with the same partner on PoE2.

 

[LESS T_T]

Another round of interviews are coming out:

How a mysterious drawing helped create Pillars of Eternity 2 http://www.polygon.com/features/201...-of-eternity-2-deadfire-crowdfunding-caed-nua
Pillars of Eternity 2's Josh Sawyer on crowdfunding, isometric RPGs, and storytelling http://www.shacknews.com/article/98...-crowdfunding-isometric-rpgs-and-storytelling
The RPG Files: Pillars of Eternity 2: The Lore with Josh Sawyer http://www.mmorpg.com/interviews/pillars-of-eternity-2-the-lore-with-josh-sawyer-1000011536

 

[FreshCorpse]

(Successful CRPG) Kickstarters tend to follow the pattern that most of the donations come at the start and end of the fundraising period. See Pillars 1:

TToN:

And D:OS:

So based on that presumably the stretch goals will get more interesting somewhere around the 20th of February as Obsidian release them at the best time to maximise fundraising.

And speaking of which, the equity investment (starting at $1000) option looks a bit insalubrious...bit worrying that unsophisticated Obsidian fans put their savings in unaware that they're unlikely to make much of a return. That might come back to bite Obsidian in the arse at some later date.

 

[Infinitron]

Another round of interviews are coming out:

How a mysterious drawing helped create Pillars of Eternity 2 http://www.polygon.com/features/201...-of-eternity-2-deadfire-crowdfunding-caed-nua
Pillars of Eternity 2's Josh Sawyer on crowdfunding, isometric RPGs, and storytelling http://www.shacknews.com/article/98...-crowdfunding-isometric-rpgs-and-storytelling
The RPG Files: Pillars of Eternity 2: The Lore with Josh Sawyer http://www.mmorpg.com/interviews/pillars-of-eternity-2-the-lore-with-josh-sawyer-1000011536

The ShackNews interview is good.

Running crowdfunding campaigns obviously takes a lot of time. Besides that, what tasks are on the team's plate for the present and right after the campaign?

Sawyer: Because we know these crowdfunding campaigns take a lot of time, my workload directly on the game is reduced because I'm spending a lot of time interfacing with fans, doing interviews, and stuff like that. We're in the middle of production, so our focus continues to be on our main city, which is Neketaka. We're going to be doing an update on what makes Neketaka so cool; it's sort of the crown jewel of this part of the world.

We're also working on establishing the critical path that goes through the city of Neketaka during the course of the story. Once we've done that we're going to be looking at ways to tie a lot of our quests together. We've been doing lots of side quests, and we've had ideas for how they tie together, but we're going to be focusing more on linking them, making things feel more coherent, and just polishing everything so that when you go through these environments and see these vignettes, they feel like parts of a living environment.

The city is really cool and has a lot of interesting content in it. I really loved our companions in Pillars 1, but people wanted really wanted more reactivity. They wanted them to be tied closer to the central plot, and that's something we're putting more effort into this time around as well. We started working on companions much earlier than we did on Pillars 1. I think that's going to be reflected in the amount of tie-in and feedback, and the reactivity you see from those characters throughout the course of the story.

So right now our focus really is on making sure we come through the crowdfunding campaign sane. [laughs] Then we'll drill down into the heart of the game, which is the city of Neketaka, and then building out from there.

Neketaka, Athkatla...

 

[Sizzle]

The most important bit:

I like to think I'm a funny guy

:D

 

[Sentinel]

Another round of interviews are coming out:

How a mysterious drawing helped create Pillars of Eternity 2 http://www.polygon.com/features/201...-of-eternity-2-deadfire-crowdfunding-caed-nua
Pillars of Eternity 2's Josh Sawyer on crowdfunding, isometric RPGs, and storytelling http://www.shacknews.com/article/98...-crowdfunding-isometric-rpgs-and-storytelling
The RPG Files: Pillars of Eternity 2: The Lore with Josh Sawyer http://www.mmorpg.com/interviews/pillars-of-eternity-2-the-lore-with-josh-sawyer-1000011536

If anyone's wondering what drawing the Polygon article is talking about but doesn't want to give those faggots clicks, it's the Od Nua concept art with the statue in the middle

Spoiler

Archive link: https://archive.fo/SZYGb

“It was Rob Nesler, who is our art director here at Obsidian,” Sawyer explained. “We wanted to show people progress. ‘Here's another level of the Endless Paths,’ when they reach a certain stretch goal. ‘On my god, here's level three!’”
But, as they continued spoon feeding the dungeon to Kickstarter backers, something altogether strange happened.
“He started illustrating this figureinside of the illustration that he was making,” Sawyer said. “As we kept going down, Rob started revealing this figure. It was really kind of a weird, and he didn't actually have an explanation for it. I said, ‘Rob, what is his guy?’ And he's like, ‘I don't know. I just thought it would be cool to sort of see this weird thing up here, and then you see more of it as the levels go down.’”

 

[Wizfall]

I really hope that it will be a real interesting big city like Athkatla, not this boring core that Defiance Bay was.
Unfortunately Sawyer said he did not like it so my expectation is limited (and even more so with the islands thing that make me believe he did not want big locations)

About reactivity i don't want to read more quite uninteresting wall of text dialogue.
I would rather like the companions comment briefly in specific case/aera (like in BG2 again).

 

[Mazisky]

The descriptive style come from the need of

I really hope that it will be a real interesting big city like Athkatla, not this boring core that Defiance Bay was.
Unfortunately Sawyer said he did not like it so my expectation is limited (and even more so with the islands thing that make me believe he did not want big locations)

About reactivity i don't want to read more quite uninteresting wall of text dialogue.
I would rather like the companions comment briefly in specific case/aera (like in BG2 again).

My biggest fear is that Nekataka will be some tribal (big) village and not a proper city