Eternity Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Pre-Release Thread [BETA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Prime Junta]

The thing with Vancian spell system in a game like PoE is that you really need to have a strategic layer, some real attrition mechanics to make it systemically relevant. This means that you should be able run out of resources at some point and lose game as a result. Being able to run back to town and replenish everything at any moment makes the whole foundation of Vancian completely irrelevant and pointless.

Nah. Wanting to avoid running back for supplies is a good-enough incentive to ration your resources. Works for me at least.

 

[Parabalus]

Pillars 1 already had subclasses of a sort -- for priests and paladins. If they do the same, more or less, for the other classes, it'll work out fine.

I'd hope they do a bit more, those two are basically only two extra talents. Yes, they are pretty defining, with unique builds centered around them, but it's not really on the level of bg kits.

 

[Perkel]

Kensai is a good example of a good trade-off kit that you use in combination with dual-classing to make most of. If all sub-classes are significant enough like that, they'll be interesting.

Kensai is one of the fringe cases though, since, by multi-/dual-classing to mage, you turn his weakness into a strength. Other multiclasses are less dramatic.

You can't multiclass kensai and mage. You can only multiclass vanilla classes.
I don't think you can dual class from Kensai. I think it must be also vanilla class and you need to have both str and int high enough.

 

[Lacrymas]

You can't multiclass kensai and mage. You can only multiclass vanilla classes.
I don't think you can dual class from Kensai. I think it must be also vanilla class and you need to have both str and int high enough.

You can dual from Kensai to mage.

 

[Parabalus]

You can't multiclass kensai and mage. You can only multiclass vanilla classes.
I don't think you can dual class from Kensai. I think it must be also vanilla class and you need to have both str and int high enough.

That dual is the cheesiest thing there is. Take a look at Kuroisan from Tactics if you need convincing.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I think it's too early to freak out. Chances are that some of PoE's class-specific "Talents" will be grouped into the new "Subclasses" and probably then tweaked.

IMO, 11 classes each with 2 subclasses means far too much work for the subclasses to be substantially different from their base class.

 

[Maculo]

While I like the idea of the empowerment system, I do not like the idea of all or most spells being per encounter. Wouldn't you need to balance encounters around players having their best spells each fight, in addition to empowered spells? Enemies would need a combination of high health/defense, high damage, or the ability to inflict injuries. At that point, however, you would still need to rest consistently.

Take Priest, I could understand if the basic buffs were per encounter, but stronger spells, such as Avatar, Revive, or Holy Storm, do not make much sense as per encounter abilities. Alternatively, the empower system could turn a healing spell into revive, or Holy Flame into Holy Storm. Can you imagine priests having a free revive each fight (assuming revive makes it into PoE2 in its current state)?

 

[The Bishop]

Nah. Wanting to avoid running back for supplies is a good-enough incentive to ration your resources. Works for me at least.

Ration as in not blowing all spells in one encounter? How much you are supposed to ration? If you're, say, descending in Caed Nua you're expected to get back a number of times anyway, so you can't just presume that you're have to complete any given dungeon per one set of camping supplies. If you ration badly you are annoyed more often, but you're not challenged by the game, because in the end you can't lose anyway. So you get a system that has annoyance as an integral part of design, but not challenge. I don't know, it just doesn't sound like good design to me.

 

[TT1]

We should send Randal to talk to JS about all the changes we dont want in PoE2.

 

[Lacrymas]

We should send Randal to talk to JS about all the changes we dont want in PoE2.

 

[Roguey]

SA is going to send the series down the shitter. Only you can save Sawyer from massive decline, Roguey.

I'm dangerously close to just dropping my pledge altogether.

Jesus, he's in full "fix it even if it ain't broken" mode

This is funny because before Pillars had even been released he was all "Hurr, stupid Bioware, changing their games to win over fans who hated the first title." This is what he's doing now.

 

[ushas]

Isn't this yesterday's Q&A? (not on Obsidian channel)

 

[Mazisky]

Yes, it is.

 

[Sigourn]

Can anyone explain the alleged magic changes?

Here's what I've understood so far:

- Pillars of Eternity had Vancian Magic, you gain spells by memorizing them when resting (I assume it works just like in Baldur's Gate).
- Now spells are per-encounter, meaning that you start each encounter with a full arsenal of spells that gets depleted, and the next encounter you start with a full arsenal once again.

Is that the case? If so, this change is fucking bullshit.

 

[Lacrymas]

Only wizards memorized spells though. Everyone else had all their spells but could only cast them a few times per rest, higher levels getting access to lower spell levels being per encounter.

 

[Seari]

The health system was terrible IMO. Funny reason to remove it though hahah.

Better than the alternative, healing to full after every encounter, which is what we'll be getting now.

 

[Roguey]

I still think it's a mistake though, they could've easily omitted that scene and the movie would've been the same.

It quickly establishes that the guy is a ruthless criminal and that the restaurant owner is an altruistic person in unfortunate circumstances when he has him hosed down in the kitchen.

 

[Seari]

With the removal of the vancian spell system, I'll be keeping my money.

 

[Lacrymas]

It quickly establishes that the guy is a ruthless criminal and that the restaurant owner is an altruistic person in unfortunate circumstances when he has him hosed down in the kitchen.

Since the whole movie is about these characters, they didn't need to quickly establish anything, these qualities are shown throughout.

 

[vortex]

With the removal of the vancian spell system, I'll be keeping my money.

They won't just remove it without offering something better. Also, there will be poll about changes and a lot of iteration before release.

 

[lordgarm]

It was too good to be true. Of course they wouldn't stop at improved graphics (they look beautiful), better performance and tweak some mechanics. They had to try "fix" everything... The game had, in general, great feedback so most mechanics were already at a good place (specially after the expansions).

I won't remove my pledge as I'm sure it will be enjoyable, but I don't agree with some chances - in particular the spell by encounter...

 

[HoboForEternity]

Is there any detailed explanation about the spella yet?

What i get is this:

1. All spells are now per encounter
2. But it will be the "base" spell, which is weak
3. There will be per rest resource that will 'augment' these spells.

Lets say a magic missile spell. The default spell you can use every encounter. The enchanced version of the spell you can use as long you have these resource. The resource management will come from these augment, and based on encounter and enemies you fight. Weak enemies you just can bash em with the weak spell. Tougher ones you have to reinforce teh spell with the limited power up

This imo can go wrong or actually be good depending on how they design the encounter. if it is anything like pillars 1, it will be bad, because you will just use the default per encounter all the time to the weak enemies. And spam the resource to bosses, then rest.

If they actually improve enemy placement and exp distribution balance, it can be great. You dotn have to waste resource on the weak ones, and you can focus your resource on tougher ones.

I think it can be good but will be ultra tricky to accomplish.

 

[Prime Junta]

I'd hope they do a bit more, those two are basically only two extra talents. Yes, they are pretty defining, with unique builds centered around them, but it's not really on the level of bg kits.

...plus reputations to chase/avoid.

 

[Prime Junta]

I'm dangerously close to just dropping my pledge altogether.

I'm not. I consider it my beholden duty to fight this to the end, and that means participating in the beta and writing extensively-researched, thoroughly-footnoted essays to JES to convince him of the error of his ways.

 

[Lacrymas]

It kinda turns into D:OS with a few changes, but real time.