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Fallout Should the Fallout world become more civilized?

Should the Fallout world become more civilized?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

Fairfax

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
3,518
It really depends on who's handling the game and where it's set. The West would most likely be post-apocalyptic and less developed. In addition to the nukes in Lonesome Road, MCA introduced the Tunnelers to make sure it remained fucked up.

Why would you need to fuck up the West to have a more "primitive" setting? North America is a big continent, not all of it is like the NCR.
He fucked up the West to make sure it wouldn't be an even more civilized region in a potential sequel. The rest of the US isn't like that, at least in theory.
 

vortex

Fabulous Optimist
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Messages
4,221
Location
Temple of Alvilmelkedic
That's the question, though. Some people (myself included) don't want any faction to endure and rebuild society. I think attempts (such as the NCR and the Legion) are valid and make the setting more interesting, but they shouldn't become too successful, otherwise the setting loses a part of its essence ("the End" MCA mentioned in the interview). Tim Cain himself said having just vestiges of civilization is a big part of Fallout, and I think the sequels have been slowly moving away from that.
I do believe there are more interesting ways of resetting the clock than nukes, but then again, a less sudden reset to collapse both factions wouldn't fit in a single DLC.

If particular faction suceeds in doing this, there could be other factions about to destroy that idea.

If you think about the meta-game and with rebuilding society and civilization would mean ending of war between factions, then no. It won't be like that beacuse then won't be a conflict and there won't be a shooting gameplay, which is part of Fallout.

But restoration of society between factions in post-apoc world would be nice story for some novel.
 

Freddie

Savant
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
717
Location
Mansion
One of the many things I hate in most medieval fantasy universes is that time's standing still; thousand years ago it was medieval age, thousand years later it'll still be medieval age. There is no reason to bring that wretched feature to other genres. If Fallout gets more civilized it'll be no less unique than it already is, its not like there are many other franchises feature post-post-apocalypse.
Before anything, I haven't played Fallout 4 and from what I have read, I'm not eager to do so.

But in general, I feel the same about the settings. The whole thing that there's hundreds or thousands years of history that hasn't contributed towards anything but maintaining status quo makes player characters role irrelevant in the big picture.

In case of Fallout making it look like progress might be even easy. Actually NV did some of that via environmental story telling. So people fish, they find a boat, net comes next and tugs etc. carrying goods. Food and handmade goods, so there has to be market, how much has market changed in 1000 years? Why it would be any different in Fallout settings? What goods are there for sale?

Other needs, people would have pretty different, yet the same needs and problems as now. So priorities, condoms, now there's need to be a source for rubber and some place to manufacture them.

Focusing in these wouldn't IMO change game play that much. Combat, I mean shotgun is a shotgun, how much has basic shotgun evolved in 100 years?

Issues I see are mobile vehicles. Say trains and perhaps some mad scientist is trying to build a working car. Trains can carry goods. Maybe lot of people liked to steal those goods, have mission where you are either guarding the train, or trying to rob it, either way, raiders make a bit more sense. Cars, make a quest where player salvage car parts, it doesn't has to be that car actually works like ever, but at least there is illusion about someone trying to do something with all the junk lying around.

Vehicles are I think issue implementation wise, engine problems and interactivity with other environmental variables rather that they couldn't be written in a way that is plausible and fits in Fallout settings. Say, train belongs to Brotherhood of Steel, they take their share of transferred goods in return of service, so railway company and you don't need to write BoS out of the picture.
 

Somberlain

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
6,202
Location
Basement
They need to start sweeping the floors. It's been 200 years.

Sorry, son, but you should leave this for professionals. Your ideas are cute and all but you should stand back and learn from the Big Boys.

Fallout 7 will be set 1000 years after the nuclear war and in an area that wasn't even hit by the nukes. It's still going to have fully edible pre-war food scattered everywhere, destroyed, unlooted pre-war buildings all around and everyone will be fawning over the past glories and lifestyles of pre-war America, while wearing pre-war 1950s style clothes.

Why? Because that's how you make a Post-Apocalyptic Video Game™ that sells a billion copies, keeps Zionmax shareholders cumming from their foreskinless dicks and builds you a golden statue in AIAS Hall of Fame. After all, post-apocalyptic, for us, is a BOS knight in power armor walking around and shooting things.


3c5.jpg
 

pippin

Guest
Even fo3 npcs sweep the floors, though. I know Moira does. I guess they need more vacuum cleaners.
 

rezaf

Cipher
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
650
I think they should move back in time, but to a different locale. UK, mainland europe, china, india, russia, I don't care, but in a more reasonable timeframe again, where it makes sense to still find stuff that has not yet be plundered, where it makes (a little more) sense for that packaged food to be still edible, where it makes more sense that nobody has rebuilt stuff yet.
 

pippin

Guest
I'd love to see that only to learn that the only country affected by atom bombs was the US
 

ColCol

Arcane
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
1,731
usually, I feel that due to the pulp comic feel of the setting that the developers should not advance the world's state , yet all the non bethesda games have done a great job o making the setting feel like it was advancing. I picture the next/later games would be about vising the last great apocalyptic frontier, like Canada (maybe as an invading npr solider or an explorer).
 

Xeon

Augur
Joined
Apr 9, 2013
Messages
1,858
A Fallout in China will be kinda great since they played a major role in Fallout.

Not sure if he was kidding or not but Irenaeus I think told me a long time ago that China doesn't exist anymore tho. Still will pretty fun to see the state of the rest of the world.
 

Freddie

Savant
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
717
Location
Mansion
I recall browsing urban explorers forum where people around the world posted pictures and stories about abandoned buildings and urban decay... I don't know if there were much difference how things looked.

I would love to see something like modern Roadwar Europe, but somehow I don't see Fallout doing that.
 

Quillon

Arcane
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
5,214
To all the locations dudes above; fallout is 50s US, if you go anywhere else its not fallout anymore. How about next metro game taking place in US?
 

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
2,910
Location
Wonderland
I'd like to know where TimCain stand in this, considering he said:
TimCain said:
My idea is to explore more of the world and more of the ethics of a post-nuclear world, not to make a better plasma gun.
I guess he kind of lean more toward JSawyer's view, but still... I'd like to know what exactly he think about this.
 

Fairfax

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
3,518
I'd like to know where TimCain stand in this, considering he said:
TimCain said:
My idea is to explore more of the world and more of the ethics of a post-nuclear world, not to make a better plasma gun.
I guess he kind of lean more toward JSawyer's view, but still... I'd like to know what exactly he think about this.
I looked for his opinion before posting the thread, but I couldn't find him saying anything specific about it. He was asked about it in an interview, but he didn't address the "post-post-apocalyptic" setting directly:

WO: With New Vegas examining humanity in a post-post-apocalyptic world, what are your opinions of what the series should strive for in the long run? And is there perhaps a risk that, the further into the future that it takes place, the less Fallout-like it will be?

TC: I think there are lots of areas in the Fallout IP that are ripe for exploring. And I don't think that people should be afraid that such exploration will make for a lesser Fallout. Expanding the IP is always a good thing, as long as its nature stays true to the original. That nature consists of exploration (both of the exterior world and one's inner self), of examining gray areas (because what important ideas are truly black and white), and of finding humor in the darkest situations.

I mentioned in a recent interview that I am for the repealing of copyright extensions. I feel that 28 years is more than enough time for a creator to make money off of his creation. After that, I want people to be encouraged to explore the works of other artists and to try to extend them in ways their original creator never imagined. There is a risk that horrible products will be generated, but that's a risk we should take to allow the occasional diamond in the rough to shine through.

He did say in another interview (a Matt Chat, I think?) that he liked having just traces of civilization and that it was a big part of the concept. He never said it has to be like that, though.
 

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
2,910
Location
Wonderland
Hmm, so I guess that means he's in the middle-ground and is okay with going for either direction, so long as
  1. There's exploration of exterior world and one's inner self.
  2. Examining gray areas.
  3. Finding humor in the darkest situation.
That's cool. Also, dat second paragraph :negative:
 

deama

Prophet
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
4,352
Location
UK
One of the many things I hate in most medieval fantasy universes is that time's standing still; thousand years ago it was medieval age, thousand years later it'll still be medieval age. There is no reason to bring that wretched feature to other genres. If Fallout gets more civilized it'll be no less unique than it already is, its not like there are many other franchises feature post-post-apocalypse.

I asked about this in Josh's FNV stream, that if the tech of the world would advance with time in PoE, he kinda said yes. So if 200-300 years get passed in Eora, we may see steam trains and whatnot.
Pillars of Arcanum confirmed.
 

tindrli

Arcane
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Messages
4,465
Location
Dragodol
civilized?? definitely not. maybe sporadic cases but in general?? .. no... not even 300 years... weirder chaotic, anything except civilized.. human beings aren't meant to be civilized
 

AW8

Arcane
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
1,852
Location
North of Poland
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Both Sawyer and Avellone are right. Seeing new civilizations grow is really fun, but with the time jump in Fallout 2 it became too civilized too quickly. And at the same time the timeline is absolutely nonsensical, new games are always seemingly set maximum a decade after the apocalypse, even though hundreds of years are supposed to have passed.

MCA's long-planned nuclear reset would improve the setting (that is, if we ever see the region again) by ensuring the NCR and Legion don't keep growing and infecting the wastes with order and conformity. Although the heavy-handedness of the act is on the scale of a DC Comics reboot. It would have been better if someone had travelled back in time and persuaded the Fallout 2 devs to not jump so far into the future in the first place.
 
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
1,853,653
Location
Belém do Pará, Império do Brasil
The entire fun is seeing growing civilizations, duh.
Also, development and order are relative. NCR may look ordely and rich but compared to pre-war standards its a third-world shithole.

I think a big problem is that JSE expanded the NCR too much - they now control almost all the area of the original games - as far as we know, only Arroyo and San Fran are free from their grubby mints.

I liked the diverse FO2 area!

Not to mention nuking is ridiculous. There is already a better done and more subtle slow doomsday for NCR - its pretty much said ingame that NCR is running out of water and land and in ten years they will starve unless they expand.

Want to see fucked up civ?
Its called Prequels. We already have FOT as a FO1-2 midquel spin-off.


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pippin

Guest
The NCR only followed a natural expansion. It started growing when it was created at the end of FO1, and a power like that will only grow and absorb everything.
 
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
1,853,653
Location
Belém do Pará, Império do Brasil
I think Fallout was ALWAYS post-post apoc. Post-Apoc is about surviving after cathastrophe. Post-post apoc is about the rebuilding.

Fallout was never much survivalism, it was about rebuild civilization and the different ways to do it, and how people cope.

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