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Why did Arcanum have terrible combat?

Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Messages
254
Location
Norfolk
Curious as the decision to give it the hybrid real-time and turnbased combat. Was this a growing trend in the industry? I know Fallout Tactics did it, and X-Com: Apocalypse. Was this from the publishers or internal decisions?

After another replay of Arcanum it seems that the combat is the single thing holding it back from being in that top-tier of RPGs. Why not just go the Fallout route of turn-based with action points?
 

dibens

as seen on shoutbox
Patron
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
2,629
Diablo 2 was yuge! at the time. I suspect many design decisions (real time combat, healt/mana orbs, inventory tetris, potion belt, trash mobs) were directly influenced by either devs or publishers wanting to jump on the arpg bandwagon.
 

Mustawd

Guest
http://www.ign.com/articles/2000/06/14/arcanum-interview

IGNPC: How have you dealt with the combat in view of the fact that gamers don't have specific control over the NPCs in their party?

Loenard Boyarsky: We've dealt with it pretty well -- I really like it. What we've done is we've made the AI understand how the melee and ranged weapons and the spells that are in the game function. As for the technological disciplines, most of them come up more because you make something with them. Some characters also know how to use their items, so that's how they come across using technological disciplines.

Tim Cain: One thing I should point out is that we do have two modes to play the game in, with turn-based and real-time. So we added both, and it's interchangeable when you play the game, as we imagine some people will want to play some areas real-time, and then switch to the turn-based when they really need to do something more tactical.

IGNPC: Does that mean the gamer will have the option to pause the combat, right in the middle of all the action, similar to what an increasing number of party-based RPGs are doing? Will you be able to interchange the turn-based/real-time modes in the middle of a fight sequence?

Tim Cain: Yes you can. What happens is if you're fighting a guy and you're in real-time, and it's not going well, you can switch the options menu and say, switch it back to turn-based, and everybody will stop attacking while you decide what you're going to do.


I gotta agree with dibens . It seems they originally planned for Arcanum to be played real time, but to allow TB in case things got really hairy and you wanted to make more tactical decisions.
 

Rpgsaurus Rex

Guest
Harm spell

Play a techie. Have low charisma or just make a case to avoid OP companions. Turn-based ON.

Combat will be semi-fun. You can use guns, crafted grenades, some other fun gimmicks I can't recall now. Then you get Mechanical Arachnid to clear the last 50% of the game for you. Or just uninstall since Arcanum turns from a 8/10 into a 2/10 game half-way through.
 
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Messages
254
Location
Norfolk
I love Arcanum at the halfway point, even moreso this playthrough: Caladon Negotiations, Half-Ogre conspiracy, Iron Clan. All great. I'm rolling with 6 party members, dog, medical arachnid, and Automaton. It's not bad, but the strategic aspect of Fallout 1/2 combat was much better.
 

ilitarist

Learned
Illiterate Village Idiot
Joined
Oct 17, 2016
Messages
857
Hybrid real-time/turn-based modes where all the rage through the nineties. Might&Magic6-8 had it, XCOM Apocalypse had it, same for Fallout Tactics. And Infinity Engine was sold as a hybrid system too as you can set autopause to fire each round. All of those games handled combat better than Arcanum.

Combat is plagued by constant misses, it's almost like Morrowind. Especially in the beginning when you have all those critical misses, drop weapons and all that jazz. Another problem is even with misses and all the complex mechanics combat is actually not challenging at all. Hate it with RPG games that add features for feature sake. Most of the gimmicks like grenades and potions are only useful right before combat or as combat initiators, after that you are just spamming attack and maybe spells.

That is if you create combat character. Otherwise you'll probably have to actually think about what you do in turn-based mode. Oh no, wait, I remember. Otherwise you just stand there and wait while your pet ogre and healer obliterate everything on your way.
 

Delterius

Arcane
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Dec 12, 2012
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Entre a serra e o mar.
Combat will be semi-fun. You can use guns, crafted grenades, some other fun gimmicks I can't recall now. Then you get Mechanical Arachnid to clear the last 50% of the game for you. Or just uninstall since Arcanum turns from a 8/10 into a 2/10 game half-way through.
And most every enemy will try to auto attack you to death.
 
Self-Ejected

Lurker King

Self-Ejected
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
1,865,419
Because Troika’s team is made by developers who are simultaneously hardcore-storyfags and combat-popamoles. They knew* how to implement skill checks, settings and reactivity, but are completely retarded when combat system, character building and challenge are concerned.

* I'm talking in the past tense because there is no evidence whatsover that people like Tim Cain still got what it takes to implement decent storyfagism.
 

Mustawd

Guest
Because Troika’s team is made by developers who are simultaneously hardcore-storyfags and combat-popamoles. They knew* how to implement skill checks, settings and reactivity, but are completely retarded when combat system, character building and challenge are concerned.

* I'm talking in the past tense because there is no evidence whatsover that people like Tim Cain still got what it takes to implement decent storyfagism.

:roll:
 
Self-Ejected

Drog Black Tooth

Self-Ejected
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
2,636
i mean just think about it. imagine this scene. you're in a hotel, getting undressed, undoing buttons on your shirt

in the dimlight you can see a king size bed in front of you. on top of it is TimCain, stark naked, lying on his belly. you can see how hairy he is, p much no spot on his body is hair free

he's spreading his ass cheeks for you, showing his mostly shit stained cornnole, while doing his best impression of seduction

"come on baby, its the time, just ram it all in, fuck me hard baby, just do it"

thats what you had to deal with when you were a 20 yo intern at troika back in 2000

no wonder the game turned out the way it did, the level design and combat balance were p much intern's job, the heavy hitters only did programming and art
 
Self-Ejected

Lurker King

Self-Ejected
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
1,865,419
TrumpDisgusting.png


DISGUSTING
 

Mustawd

Guest
Stop switching avatars you retard.

You were an old man and now you're an elf. Just pick one and stick with it like an adult.

Also, that previous post was a drunk post. You can ignore it.
 

Spectacle

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
8,363
The main problem with Aracum's combat is the lack of direct party control, which makes every fight an untactical clusterfuck. The hybrid system that meant neither real-time nor turn-based worked particularly well certainly didn't help, though.
 

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