Decline Where my Bubbles Gone?

[IncendiaryDevice]

People actually read the front page?

 

[King Crispy]

This oughtta be good.

 

[Infinitron]

Posted: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...ory-of-the-iceberg-review-by-celerity.112386/

 

[Western]

True, like changing "PoE is shit" to "PoE is awesome".

In all seriousness though, I wouldn't be able to write decently in Polish, let alone English. Maybe Scrooge will try to do it though, it seems she wants to do it but is afraid we will laugh.

In my mind, what matters is the substance of the review, such as a discussion of mechanics, and structure. By structure, I mean grammar, headers, and topic sentences. One can find structure through the help of a good editor.

I would offer to help Scrooge or anyone willing to try, but I would warn them upfront that law school and law in general dulled my writing. Law school beat the fun out of me.

Also, I do not think people would laugh at a reviewer for making an attempt at content. Instead, the reviewer should worry about PoE/InXile derails, the review being leaked by discontents, and now apparently Infinitron.

Just stick to the German Codex reviewers, law school beat the fun out of you, Germany beat the fun out of them, perfect match

 

[Roguey]

No.

Can you make sense of why they made the decisions they did? Because I can't.

Up through 15 they all follow the same rules, with odd numbers being redundant. Then 17 adds +1 to hit? Why then and there? Who knows. Then you run into the ad hoc mess that is 18/xx.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Guys abandon this thread, read Celerity's review.

 

[Tigranes]

It is a brilliant bit of damage control

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

It is a brilliant bit of damage control

Yeah, it worked great, everyone is praising Infi now for how he underdelievered.

 

[Irxy]

People actually read the front page?

I do, and am still butthurt the archive link is broken.

 

[Israfael]

So, this love triangle and a habit of posting half-baked reviews were going since PoE release. Intresting....
https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/80390-the-third-rpgcodex-review-the-best-most-accurate-review-yet/

PrimeJunta
Infinitron should have noted that it's an abandoned WIP, which is why he posted it. But hey, it's Bubbles.

 

[Celerity]

Posting reviews on RPGCodex:

1: Blast game with both barrels.
2: Wait a while.
3: Call site staff a tranny and a shill.

Near instant response!

 

[Mustawd]

Does this mean Celerity gets access to the secret forum?

 

[Lhynn]

That's an objective mess.

No, it isnt. Theres actually a very good reason for those numbers that follows a more simulationist approach, and oh god having to call AD&D simulationist in 2016, how badly has the quality of RPG systems fallen for this to happen.

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

another WIP revew leaked

when will it end

Please, stop trolling

 

[Lhynn]

another WIP revew leaked

when will it end

Please, continue trolling

 

[undecaf]

Meh. There'll be other Bubbles'. And they'll self-eject too in time. And then there'll be others.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Will they keep getting smaller until we end up with Phage?

 

[Ninjerk]

Will they keep getting smaller until we end up with Phage?

You mean PERFECTLY AVERAGE?

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

That's an objective mess.

No, it isnt. Theres actually a very good reason for those numbers that follows a more simulationist approach, and oh god having to call AD&D simulationist in 2016, how badly has the quality of RPG systems fallen for this to happen.

Xe's mainly talking about the weird scale I think, which is some kind of logarithmic scale with nothing at all differing in the mid-ranges. That's something that appeals to min-maxers I guess.

 

[Lhynn]

Xe's mainly talking about the weird scale I think, which is some kind of logarithmic scale with nothing at all differing in the mid-ranges. That's something that appeals to min-maxers I guess.

Wrong, on both accounts.
The weird scale is meant to show how at any level of human physical power the impact on your attacks is largely negligible, and only the extremes show a real difference. This is to reflect how normal people, even with differing levels of physical power still strike at roughly the same power unless trained, which is consistent with reality. It is only when physical power aproximates that of large animals or monsters that you will notice a real difference.

As for the system encouraging minmaxing, thats not really the case, vanilla AD&D isnt very minmaxy friendly at all because there is nothing to minmax. Meaning that you made your choice once and were guaranteed to keep getting stronger each level if you managed to survive.
On modern systems instead you make the choice at character creation, and then every advancement thereafter the choice between sticking to what you were good for or start sucking is presented to the player.

Basically in AD&D attributes only mattered at first, on later levels their importance would lessen and your character would be shaped by the campaign, it guaranteed that as long as you survived youd get stronger. In modern systems it comes down to how many right choices you make, and a poor start or a bad choice at level up will leave you comparatively weaker to whatever you face, therefore minmaxing becomes not only important, but THE way to play the game.

AD&D was a beauty of a system, both in its charm and that it funneled players into having a good time regardless of what they were playing.

 

[agris]

I cannot forgive him for obsessing over responding to people in the SitS thread with inaccurate information which was clearly negative agenda horseshit when SitS was a rare example of a newly made RtwP which was actually trying to be genuinely good. While game certainly wasn't 10/10 perfection, for me it showed how bubbles didn't really care about principles so much as just being interested in 'life with the big boys', to which a Fallout 4 review, even if it's quite funny, still leaves you with the conclusion that... you actually played Fallout 4... and then dedicated time to thinking about it... sheesh.

While I thoroughly enjoyed SitS, and have the ~10 handwritten pages of area/quest notes to prove it, not everyone is going to be able to overlook the rough and see the diamond. When it came to SitS, everything that glittered was gold... for me. Don't expect everyone to see it that way, and I certainly don't hold it against codexers who tried it and couldn't into it.

OTOH, the shitslurpers who whine about the lack of 'good' RPGs to play and just reference WL2/DOS/PoE over and over and over... and over again, well, they get no quarter.

Spoiler

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Come back, Bubbles!

Spoiler

Michael Jackson's Moonwalker, Arcade, 1990

 

[Haplo]

No.

Can you make sense of why they made the decisions they did? Because I can't.

Up through 15 they all follow the same rules, with odd numbers being redundant. Then 17 adds +1 to hit? Why then and there? Who knows. Then you run into the ad hoc mess that is 18/xx.

Yes, it was an ugly mess. Thanks god 3.0 edition fixed it. That's why ToEE/IWD2/NWN/NWN2 systems are so vastly superior. I'm not familiar with the new 5.0 ruleset, but 3.0/3.5 really were a pinnacle of DnD game systems (though GURPS variants, as used in Fallout 1&2 were still better IMO).

 

[Matalarata]

It just required a table, two braincells and no crybabies whining about muh balance. There, perfect AD&D campaign. Those stats were almost cemented during a campaign, once you learned that you had a +1 bonus to hit and damage, you rarely had to consult the table again, hence there's no need for logarithmic progression since all it does is making the system easy to game, minmax and sperg about.

Out of curiosity, Roguey have you ever actually played AD&D (1st, 2nd Ed.) as it was meant to be played? That is, live pnp session with a group of RL friends? Because while you clearly understand the math behind it, your knoweledge of what makes a good system as a whole is clearly lacking imho.

Have a look at this:

Spoiler

The difference between a 16 or a 17 is much more than a simple +1, it adds to your carry weight, maximum lift value, chance to open doors and bend bars. It's a system made for the flexibility that pnp needs. I have been gamemastering for almost 25 years and while I like and use modern systems I always find them lacking in granularity. And no, having a flat +3 bonus from your dex that you use both for dodge, for to hit bonus and as a ST bonus isn't the same.

Here you can have a look at the whole c. sheet:

Spoiler

Notice how every attribute has such an internal subdivision of bonuses. Again, call it a mess if you want, but you only had to copy it over your sheet once. Once. And for a GM those in-depth, granular stats are incredibly useful.

 

[Ninjerk]

^ tfw sincerely arguing with Roguey about Joshposts