Development Info Tyranny Dev Diary Video #3: Gameplay and Mechanics

[Ruzen]

Icewind Dale series were "casualized" version of Baldurs Gate. It was fun never the less. Nostalgia makes memories change I guess.
It's very common to create medium(ish) games with same engine and they often do good job. Just like in Icewind Dale.
Not to mention It's good place to practice different gameplay systems to see how players respond.

 

[ArchAngel]

Wow, you found 1 spell. You must be feeling pretty smart right now? I did say there are not many. Maybe learn to read before you write your shit on the internet?

Good thing someone's actually gone through the trouble of making such a list http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/AreaSpellChart.htm

That's actually quite a lot.

Haha, fuck NWN. Nobody ever compared them to NWN. Since release PoE mechanics and spells are compared with IE games, you know the ones they used to market PoE in their KS. Are you dense or just don't have any arguments and trying to mislead?

You seem unable to comprehend there's a spectrum between "casual" and "most hardcore ever." Neither PoE nor BG/IWD are in the extremes of either.

And even in NWN prebuffing is more tactical than what PoE has (although it does come down to using same 5 spells and turns into a chore that pen and paper does not have due to nature of that medium).

Prebuffing is a strategic action, not tactical.

So what? Most of the ones that are based on physical spell (not mental one) effect have friendly fire. Color Spray is only black sheep I see, maybe glitterdust as well. PoE is full of Foe only AoE that should not be, they are only because their casual players cannot handle it.

Yes, there is a spectrum, and PoE went into casual one. It is certainly not as casual as most popamole games but I don't play those and don't care. PoE is already casual for me.

Yes, it is a strategic action. PoE lacks those that have any meaning, food shit that gives +2 to strength or other same shit does not count.

 

[ArchAngel]

Icewind Dale series were "casualized" version of Baldurs Gate. It was fun never the less. Nostalgia makes memories change I guess.
It's very common to create medium(ish) games with same engine and they often do good job. Just like in Icewind Dale.
Not to mention It's good place to practice different gameplay systems to see how players respond.

Considering combat was harder in IWD I don't see how it was more casual. Maybe storyfags have a different definition of casual than others...

 

[Sannom]

I see the PoERetard boys are still delusional even after we ripped them a couple of new buttholes in the Obsidian subsection since the game release.

You are kidding right? People like you avoid that place like it has been cursed! I only hear you in news topic!

 

[ArchAngel]

I see the PoERetard boys are still delusional even after we ripped them a couple of new buttholes in the Obsidian subsection since the game release.

You are kidding right? People like you avoid that place like it has been cursed! I only hear you in news topic!

There is nothing more to be said there that we didn't in first few months. There was enough buthurt poe fanboys than, no need to remove virginity from more.

 

[Urthor]

I'm not sure how removing friendly fire can make positioning more relevant than it was in PoE though. PoE's best parts was positioning the template uses like Wizard (and Cipher if you swung that way) and the intellect radius on AOE spells in general.

Tyranny looks like it will be MMO style stand and deliver followed by triggering combo abilities, it won't have the combat heritage of IE where you're kiting whilst opening the tin can with your wizards then sticking your damage dealers on them, (largely also wizards unless you go for prebuilt).

 

[Ruzen]

Icewind Dale series were "casualized" version of Baldurs Gate. It was fun never the less. Nostalgia makes memories change I guess.
It's very common to create medium(ish) games with same engine and they often do good job. Just like in Icewind Dale.
Not to mention It's good place to practice different gameplay systems to see how players respond.

Considering combat was harder in IWD I don't see how it was more casual. Maybe storyfags have a different definition of casual than others...

You just completely throw out HALF of the gameplay in this type of games, by calling: story fags.
One half, is deep story telling with multiple choices and the other is d&d based ruleset battle.
Not to mention Icewind Dale combat almost identical with the Baldurs Gate. Only Icewind Dale had fights in every corner with more mobs. It became "harder" only by spawning more mobs not different AI, not different gameplay or anything.
You hardcore vs casual mentality is flawed.

 

[Roguey]

It became "harder" only by spawning more mobs not different AI, not different gameplay or anything.

Icewind Dale implemented more D&D rules properly and, with the Heart of Winter expansion, incorporated "call-for-help" scripting so you can't just abuse the fog of war by taking out enemies one by one every time like you can in BG.

 

[Sentinel]

Storyfaggotry is an equivalent of decline and casualisation. The video game medium cannot deliver a high quality narrative - only repackaged hoary old chestnuts and pretentiousness. If you're playing video games for their (I just shat myself) "d33p" story and moral dilemmas, then you're ridiculously retarded and need to be aborted as a lowliving shithead you are.
Go fuck yourself.

That said, a video game may deliver a compelling story line or message that aren't pretentious and shit, but only as a gimmick and a cherry top.

You're correct. Everyone applauds Planescape Torment, Baldur's Gate, MotB, Deus Ex, VtMB, Arcanum, and others, for their sick ass gameplay.
Gameplay is only the most important thing if your RPG is a dungeon crawler. Otherwise, characters and story are the #1 thing that will make your game stand out.

 

[Ruzen]

Storyfaggotry is an equivalent of decline and casualisation. The video game medium cannot deliver a high quality narrative - only repackaged hoary old chestnuts and pretentiousness. If you're playing video games for their (I just shat myself) "d33p" story and moral dilemmas, then you're ridiculously retarded and need to be aborted as a lowliving shithead you are.
Go fuck yourself.

That said, a video game may deliver a compelling story line or message that aren't pretentious and shit, but only as a gimmick and a cherry top.

your entire statement is full with false thoughts of real life examples and I highly doubt you have a capacity to criticise about what is story what is not.

 

[DeepOcean]

Icewind Dale series were "casualized" version of Baldurs Gate. It was fun never the less. Nostalgia makes memories change I guess.
It's very common to create medium(ish) games with same engine and they often do good job. Just like in Icewind Dale.
Not to mention It's good place to practice different gameplay systems to see how players respond.

Nope, how something that used the exact same mechanics of Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 (on the case of Icewind dale I) was casualized? Actually, on Icewind Dale I and II, you could create your whole party what you couldn't do on Baldur's Gate 1 and had to use a exploit at multiplayer mode to do so on Baldur's Gate 2. Icewind Dale 1 and 2 had much better fights and level design than something like Baldur's Gate 1, only Baldur's 2 is a more polished game. Icewind Dale games are RTwP dungeon crawlers, they are akin to what Dungeon Rats is to AoD. They aren't casual versions of Baldur's Gate.

Tyranny however looks like an isometric version of Dragon Age... nope... it is worse, there was still friendly fire on Dragon Age 1. If this was Icewind Dale version of PoE as some people are claiming, it would be a radically different game. I would say it would have a far better combat system than this thing even if I still think most of Sawyerism is just pretentious apologism for dumb down, PoE seems to have a better combat system than this thing.

Make sure you know what you are talking about before you start using the "nostalgia" card, don't be an internet psychologist, those people are despicable because this nostalgia shit isn't an argument, it is just a cop-out for ignorant, shilling or dishonest people.

 

[skyst]

Storyfaggotry is an equivalent of decline and casualisation. The video game medium cannot deliver a high quality narrative - only repackaged hoary old chestnuts and pretentiousness. If you're playing video games for their (I just shat myself) "d33p" story and moral dilemmas, then you're ridiculously retarded and need to be aborted as a lowliving shithead you are.
Go fuck yourself.

That said, a video game may deliver a compelling story line or message that aren't pretentious and shit, but only as a gimmick and a cherry top.

your entire statement is full with false thoughts of real life examples and I highly doubt you have a capacity to criticise about what is story what is not.

He's trying really hard to codex, though. Surprised he didn't call anyone a cuck.

 

[Sentinel]

Having decent writing and characters that feel real is not an equivalent of storyfaggotry. Storyfaggots fetishize any piece of writing and imply higher quality compelling to cause some kind of intellectual revelation or practice. Vide Bioshit Infinite, walking simulators or PoE's writing autistic apologetists. The games you mentioned still have gameplay.

Also, Kingdoms of Amalur has shit everything. I wish it had any mediocre values.

So many adjectives devoid of any meaning. Are you actually going to try to come up with any examples, or is this gonna be one of those "everything is shit and people who disagree with me are delusional" episodes?

 

[Suicidal]

Prebuffing in IE/NWN games was as hardcore and tactical as filling in forms at a minimum wage data entry job.

 

[ROARRR]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkWS9PiXekE#t=2m48s

Spoiler

 

[Shilandra]

So, exactly how closely does poe emulate the old school dnd rulesets that the older crpgs used?

Like is it a particularly big jump from nwn2 or bg2 to PoE? What about story/gameplay balance? Are there stat checks in dialogue?

 

[ArchAngel]

Icewind Dale series were "casualized" version of Baldurs Gate. It was fun never the less. Nostalgia makes memories change I guess.
It's very common to create medium(ish) games with same engine and they often do good job. Just like in Icewind Dale.
Not to mention It's good place to practice different gameplay systems to see how players respond.

Considering combat was harder in IWD I don't see how it was more casual. Maybe storyfags have a different definition of casual than others...

You just completely throw out HALF of the gameplay in this type of games, by calling: story fags.
One half, is deep story telling with multiple choices and the other is d&d based ruleset battle.
Not to mention Icewind Dale combat almost identical with the Baldurs Gate. Only Icewind Dale had fights in every corner with more mobs. It became "harder" only by spawning more mobs not different AI, not different gameplay or anything.
You hardcore vs casual mentality is flawed.

When talking about hardcore or casual, story faggotry has no place here. There is no bigger challenge to the player in reading better story or interacting with better NPCs. There might be in adventure games, but we are talking about RPGs. IWD was a worse Storyfag game but it was a more hardcore game overall. It has similar mechanics like BG but more hand crafted combat, made more difficult and tightly controlled XP and magic item gain so people cannot become overpowered too fast. I had easier time killing Sarevok first time than Yxunomei and she is only the first boss.
And now I can LOLROFLSTOMP Sarevok in 5 different ways, but Yxunomei is still at least a tough fight.

 

[ArchAngel]

So, exactly how closely does poe emulate the old school dnd rulesets that the older crpgs used?

Like is it a particularly big jump from nwn2 or bg2 to PoE? What about story/gameplay balance? Are there stat checks in dialogue?

It emulates it badly. But we had this discussion on million pages all over the 'Dex.

 

[logrus]

Tyranny saw videos where u have to move your guys to avoid attacks never had to do that in pillars.

It seems you haven't reached the depths of Od Nua, have you?
I'm cautiously optymistic regarding Tyranny. Not being a Chosen One but being on a bad guy's side is a already nice start and I really dig systems with learn-by-use skills.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Storyfaggotry is an equivalent of decline and casualisation. The video game medium cannot deliver a high quality narrative - only repackaged hoary old chestnuts and pretentiousness. If you're playing video games for their (I just shat myself) "d33p" story and moral dilemmas, then you're ridiculously retarded and need to be aborted as a lowliving shithead you are.
Go fuck yourself.

That said, a video game may deliver a compelling story line or message that aren't pretentious and shit, but only as a gimmick and a cherry top.

Joined: Oct 16, 2016

New poster wants to be edgy.

 

[HoboForEternity]

yeah, pretty much the definition of trying too hard

 

[Trash]

Looking forward to this one. The setting is at least a bit interesting and they're doing something quite fresh as a story. I'm also interested in the reactivity and how that will work out. Combat seems passable. And since it's been ages since I had genuine fun with combat in an rpg that will do.

Speaking of which, when I think about it this seems mostly tied to scale and encounter design. DnD combat came from miniature wargaming. So, why do the computer iterations and siblings of those ancient systems all have small skirmishes? The calculations that are a hassle in tabletop get done by the computer anyway. When you design trash combat make it count. Let the heroes for instance fight through a throng of enemies in a siege instead of the usual handful of enemies. And that also ties into encounter design. There's so much more that can be done than just scouring a map and fighting a few enemies every other room to culminate in the big baddie at the end. Have reinforcements join in, make the enviroment part of it, have enemy leaders run away for another day, ambushes being sprung. Spice shit up. I really hope that someone will one day do more with rpg combat than fiddle with stats and mechanics.

 

[MRY]

Prebuffing in IE/NWN games was as hardcore and tactical as filling in forms at a minimum wage data entry job.

Hear hear! Prebuffing is among the reasons I gave up on RPGs (along with loot scrounging and inventory Tetris).

 

[Gylfi.Fenriz.Conquests]

The guy's completely right because he's thinking of film games for the console freaks. He's thinking of Squall or some straight hair dude with a camera hanging around his balls. Cutscenes are intermissions, relaxing times, good for a smoke. 2 are sufficient in a game. More than that it's just dumbing down a game. It's the difference between reading a hardcore book and one that has many illustrations everywhere (they printed the second type for the people)

So yeah as someone said, he ignores that there's a new idea of story, that has no cutscene, and it's built INSIDE (and not around) the actual gameplay mechanics, like, as you said torment.

problem is he might be also right when he says story can be a cherry on top of a cake. Fallout's story is unarguably an excuse for a compendium of little micro stories. And that's pretty much the definition of Tolkien's LOTR books. But hey they ARE still stories, nonetheless.

 

[chaddiek]

Dumb as fuck.

"Let's expand on all these ideas no one gives a shit about and ignore everything people actually want"

Like custom companions, multiple classes, turn based option, more than 4 fucking character slots...

"There are no classes"

So just another elder scrolls where everyone is a hybrid, fucking hate that shit.