Capcom Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen

[Bahamut]

I'm actually fine with pawns, especially the main one - after buying her some skills she really wrecks face (ranger) all over the place. It's just their endless banter about everything, starting from OH HEY THIS IS YOUR HOME TOWN ISN'T IT to LOOK A BIG TREE HOLY SHIT to WOW THIS IS A ROAD DID YOU KNOW PEOPLE USE IT TO WALK. Also, I'm not going to turn off the banter because I want to see how much more inane shit they can find the VA budget for.

You can disable pawns chatter in options

Spoiler

But i know you wont do it

 

[Hirato]

You can also train them to talk less.

If you want to stay alive Angthoron, remember that wolves hunt in packs

 

[Angthoron]

Thanks guys. I'm taking it in small doses to prevent entering berserk mode. It's a nice game but it does have some issues that make it difficult for me to play it for longer stretches (horrible writing style for example, I'm almost ready to take back what I said about PoE's pwgras and fampyrs), VAs being all over the place, and other design decisions that feel they're there to annoy me specifically, but until I hit that soft enrage, I'm actually enjoying it quite a lot.

Will probably continue posting my meltdown reports here.

 

[tripedal]

This game lost all its charm for me when I realized how the damage threshold system is set up. The progression is entirely "artificial" and basically completely removes skill from the equation. If you hit for less than the DT there's nothing you can do, and if you hit for a bit more than the DT everything dies easily. It gives a good feeling of increasing power but it's total BS.

 

[Mozg]

There is a band of your damage vs. their DT that lets you fight stuff you're "underlevelled" for if you use all the quirks of the enemies and the systems. Like for example you can knock down an ogre by grabbing it after it does its big charge attack when it's off balance, and when it's knocked down you can do noticeable damage even with fairly shit equipment and skills. However, that's stuff you likely won't notice unless you're soloing and it's easy to miss the "right" time in the power curve to fight things (and if you're being even half-completionist, you'll 100% miss it). Like most stuff in DD, they really did a lot to hide the best parts.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Actually, you can use buffs to overcome DT of enemies that are stronger than you, as long as you're still in the same ballpark. I do agree though, that the system isn't well suited for the game, since the HP of enemies caps out fairly quickly, so beyond a certain point, you can kill even the strongest enemies far too easily. An effective hp multiplier system would be better, or a combo of both, so you can still get that feeling of going from having to actually fight goblins or wolves to utterly thrashing them, while still being able to have a drawn out fight against larger enemies that involves exploiting weaknesses instead of just overwhelming them with raw damage.

 

[Lucky]

Thanks guys. I'm taking it in small doses to prevent entering berserk mode. It's a nice game but it does have some issues that make it difficult for me to play it for longer stretches (horrible writing style for example, I'm almost ready to take back what I said about PoE's pwgras and fampyrs), VAs being all over the place, and other design decisions that feel they're there to annoy me specifically, but until I hit that soft enrage, I'm actually enjoying it quite a lot.

Will probably continue posting my meltdown reports here.

For truth, I do not see aught wrong with that, cos.

 

[The Vanished One]

Personally I don't think that Dragon's Dogma would have worked as well without the semi free roaming aspect. While it's true that running around the same areas over and over again kinda got tiring after a while (especially during a second playthrough), the game works well because the first time you explore the maps you absolutely have no idea what's gonna happen and the idea of an open world gives with your expectations in a rather nice way.
There aren't many games like Dragon's Dogma but something similar without a party and a "linear" experience are Severance, Dark Messiah and Enclave. In my opinion Dragon's Dogma managed to add exploration done right especially if you happened to start some quests at night. Of course there's room for improvement but ultimately I feel that the open world and the day night cycle were mandatory for a nice experience.

I do not disagree that the open world works well initially, for the reasons you cite, but to me it ended up feeling too constrained too soon.
The main world map in DDDA is neither very large nor very open to begin with, broken up as it is in a handful of expansive areas connected by choke-points and shortcuts, plus several more separate maps hidden behind loading screens. Now, I'll take a small but high-quality and smartly structured map over a massive empty bland expanse any day, but the world in DDDA, while not barren and filled with nice small touches, is also mainly a collection of mission hotspots connected by mostly trash mob fights, and not a lot of life to give it a sense of authenticity (a duchy with one city, one village, and a handful of ruined forts). The basic enemy types feel different and come with their own unique challenges, which keeps battles fresh for a good long while, but are repeated interminably and then replaced by reskinned versions of themselves ad nauseam.
I too have good memories of initially exploring the map, such as wandering along the coast and stumbling into my first golem, which IIRC took me one and a half in-game days to defeat. By 1/3 of the way in, though, I'd explored everything but BBI and the Everfall and was left disappointed by the constrained nature of the map.
I actually liked many things about the world design. It has generally good, consistent art direction. Some places are distinctive and many are atmospheric. There is a good use of height and natural obstacles. I just wish that all that effort had been put into something more focused and varied, such as individual areas connected by an abstract overland map, a "linear open world" experience such as the Souls games, a hub-and-missions structure like that of the DX games, or even a BBI-style dungeon crawl but with more, larger maps and more interconnected hubs. Anything that could put the limited budget to better use than trying to make an open world. Such a game would likely be shorter, but more balanced and more replayable. The combat system is very flexible and adaptable, and would not suffer in the transition.
The day/night cycle is indeed implemented very well (Bethesda and almost everyone else could learn a thing or two) and probably wouldn't work quite as well without the open world. I think that would be acceptable but YMMV.
Sure, it's possible I'm just deluded and to sell this kind of game these days you do need an open world and a minimum of 100 hours of running time, no matter how repetitive, so the only way Capcom could have improved the game would have been to invest more money in a richer gameworld. Or maybe all my not-open-world ideas wouldn't actually save as much of the budget as I think, and the game resulting from my alternatives would turn out very short without being much more varied. I still enjoyed the game for over 100 hours as it is, even with all the repetition and the broken balance. "Great but flawed" is, after all, the best we get in the best of times.

 

[Krraloth]

Personally I don't think that Dragon's Dogma would have worked as well without the semi free roaming aspect. While it's true that running around the same areas over and over again kinda got tiring after a while (especially during a second playthrough), the game works well because the first time you explore the maps you absolutely have no idea what's gonna happen and the idea of an open world gives with your expectations in a rather nice way.
There aren't many games like Dragon's Dogma but something similar without a party and a "linear" experience are Severance, Dark Messiah and Enclave. In my opinion Dragon's Dogma managed to add exploration done right especially if you happened to start some quests at night. Of course there's room for improvement but ultimately I feel that the open world and the day night cycle were mandatory for a nice experience.

I do not disagree that the open world works well initially, for the reasons you cite, but to me it ended up feeling too constrained too soon.
The main world map in DDDA is neither very large nor very open to begin with, broken up as it is in a handful of expansive areas connected by choke-points and shortcuts, plus several more separate maps hidden behind loading screens. Now, I'll take a small but high-quality and smartly structured map over a massive empty bland expanse any day, but the world in DDDA, while not barren and filled with nice small touches, is also mainly a collection of mission hotspots connected by mostly trash mob fights, and not a lot of life to give it a sense of authenticity (a duchy with one city, one village, and a handful of ruined forts). The basic enemy types feel different and come with their own unique challenges, which keeps battles fresh for a good long while, but are repeated interminably and then replaced by reskinned versions of themselves ad nauseam.
I too have good memories of initially exploring the map, such as wandering along the coast and stumbling into my first golem, which IIRC took me one and a half in-game days to defeat. By 1/3 of the way in, though, I'd explored everything but BBI and the Everfall and was left disappointed by the constrained nature of the map.
I actually liked many things about the world design. It has generally good, consistent art direction. Some places are distinctive and many are atmospheric. There is a good use of height and natural obstacles. I just wish that all that effort had been put into something more focused and varied, such as individual areas connected by an abstract overland map, a "linear open world" experience such as the Souls games, a hub-and-missions structure like that of the DX games, or even a BBI-style dungeon crawl but with more, larger maps and more interconnected hubs. Anything that could put the limited budget to better use than trying to make an open world. Such a game would likely be shorter, but more balanced and more replayable. The combat system is very flexible and adaptable, and would not suffer in the transition.
The day/night cycle is indeed implemented very well (Bethesda and almost everyone else could learn a thing or two) and probably wouldn't work quite as well without the open world. I think that would be acceptable but YMMV.
Sure, it's possible I'm just deluded and to sell this kind of game these days you do need an open world and a minimum of 100 hours of running time, no matter how repetitive, so the only way Capcom could have improved the game would have been to invest more money in a richer gameworld. Or maybe all my not-open-world ideas wouldn't actually save as much of the budget as I think, and the game resulting from my alternatives would turn out very short without being much more varied. I still enjoyed the game for over 100 hours as it is, even with all the repetition and the broken balance. "Great but flawed" is, after all, the best we get in the best of times.

I agree almost 100% with what you wrote and the sad reality is that we might never see a new game that improves on what was already built.

 

[Valky]

The world was great at first. When I started a new game, after the opening stuff, I wandered into the forest near Cassardis and quickly got lost. Meanwhile the day turned into night and ghosts I couldn't kill appeared, and then I spend my way almost blindly stumbling around until I saw a light in the distance and reached the witch hut. It was an amazing and immersive experience. Once I got into the game and had a real handle on it though, it was a chore to walk large distances of the same places I had been (rift stones were nice though), and the enemies on the map being the exact same mobs in the exact same place got annoying.
The encounter designs were for the most part amazing, like the scripted gryphon fight and dragon. The skill system could be improved for warriors though, and it would be nice to have a more alive feeling world with scripted random events happening when you travel or something to make the encounters not the same inbred goblins every time. I wouldn't put much hope in a sequel though, all things considered it would probably end up being a multiplayerfocused game

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Great Deceiver]

I played the original on PS3 and I thought it was a superb game, truly amazing - even running in dogshit resolution at 15fps most of the time in that piece of shit box. Never got around to playing Dark Arisen since my PS3 died and I never bothered to replace it.

Playing the PC version now and it's still a fucking amazing game. 60fps does wonders for it too, because the combat is so good. Something occurred to me while playing earlier today - if you pace yourself, each session feels like a complete tabletop D&D adventure. For example, going down the well in Cassardis - that could be a quick one-shot tabletop adventure, trekking for the first time through the Witchwood - another session, and so on. I don't think the game was meant to be played over long sessions - but when it works, it's fucking amazing. And it works often.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Dragon's Dogma has the best representation of classic D&D monsters in videogames - across all genres.

 

[felipepepe]

Indeed fighting the griffon, having him flee and following him into the tower for a climatic battle feels amazing and extremely D&D-like. It's simple, but so well-executed.

Especially since in a replay you can burn him quickly and kill him before he flees - it's not a forced, scripted event. That's fucking amazing.

 

[Great Deceiver]

Compre that to the Twitcher 3 Griffon fight. Japs had it right...

 

[Mozg]

You can go back into the portal area and swap in new 2nd/3rd pawns. Offline they'll be scaled to your level and generated (usually awful, since they have randomly picked skills and weird equipment), online they'll be the pawns made by other humans.

 

[Zombra]

Do I understand this correctly?
You can have 3 pawns
1 main pawn that levels up
2 others that are static
But if I go online I can replace the 2 "useless" pawns with ones that other players have levelled up?

Pretty much, but the static pawns aren't useless. Basically you just need to check into the void from time to time to "top up" the levels of your pawns.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

But if I go online I can replace the 2 "useless" pawns with ones that other players have levelled up?

If you're playing offline on PC, there's a mod that allows you to set the primary and secondary inclinations of the computer-generated Pawns, so you'll be able to find useful ones (just enter the Rift through a Riftstone to search for new Pawns). Either way, I'd suggest you look up information on Pawn inclinations, as they're important to Pawn behavior but poorly explained in the game/manual.

 

[Valky]

But if I go online I can replace the 2 "useless" pawns with ones that other players have levelled up?

If you're playing offline on PC, there's a mod that allows you to set the primary and secondary inclinations of the computer-generated Pawns, so you'll be able to find useful ones (just enter the Rift through a Riftstone to search for new Pawns). Either way, I'd suggest you look up information on Pawn inclinations, as they're important to Pawn behavior but poorly explained in the game/manual.

You can buy items in the game to change those inclinations, can't you?

 

[Hyperion]

Those are for your main pawn only.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

The quiet that follows once you get your pawns offed is amazing.

How often do you guys swap gear, I've probably been using the same greatsword for ages now.
And damn, levelling up is rather fast here.

 

[Hyperion]

Leveling is very fast throughout the whole game, and doubly fast on Hard Mode. If you know where to go, and where to look you can get good weapon upgrades early since treasure chests have static loot tables. Getting good and awesome looking gear for your pawn at low levels is awesome to get them hired.

Even easier, make a nude loli and rake in the RC's.

 

[Delterius]

How often do you guys swap gear, I've probably been using the same greatsword for ages now.

The main quest has stages/chapters which advance the plot, open/close sidequests and update the shops. You should change gear with it. Greatswords are an advanced class weapon, so the first one you can buy will stay with you for a while longer.

 

[Mozg]

I strongly suggest playing on normal difficulty, beelining for main quests, not doing any freestyle exploration, and not taking the MMO "kill 50 wolves" board quests. The board quests just give you doses of XP and gold for stuff you'd do anyway. The main quests will eventually send you to almost all locations, and if you explored a lot it will be overlevelled backtracking.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I strongly suggest playing on normal difficulty, beelining for main quests, not doing any freestyle exploration, and not taking the MMO "kill 50 wolves" board quests. The board quests just give you doses of XP and gold for stuff you'd do anyway. The main quests will eventually send you to almost all locations, and if you explored a lot it will be overlevelled backtracking.

More or less how I'm rolling.

 

[Delterius]

Especially since in a replay you can burn him quickly and kill him before he flees - it's not a forced, scripted event. That's fucking amazing.

Nothing like stacking a few periapts and Arc of Deliverance to one shot the Gryphon~

<3