Bard's Tale The Bard's Tale IV Pre-Release Thread [RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Saxon1974]

Like what I heard in this update...a bit more optimistic now

 

[Zombra]

I'm into the no randomness thing, will make it more like a card game in a good way. Making you think about each sword swing instead of Attack Attack Attack. I swing the sword on this guy for X, then I can use my dagger guy for Y to finish him off and still have another attack, stuff like this.

 

[Crooked Bee]

RPGWatch interview with Systems Designer David Rogers: http://www.rpgwatch.com/articles/the-bards-tale-iv-interview-374.html

RPGWatch: What sort of character attributes, stats and rule-set are you hoping to implement in The Bard's Tale IV? Will the game have a heavy pen-and-paper feel to it, or are you going for something different?

David: A question like this could easily have me writing a four-page answer. I get really jazzed when it comes to talking about rulesets and systems. Rather than getting really deep into the details that may ultimately change as we continue to iterate, I'll talk about or philosophy when approaching the game mechanics of The Bard's Tale IV.

We strive for game systems that feels thought provoking and strategic. We want players to be able to look at their party's capabilities, form a plan, and then execute that plan with some reliability. If the plan fails or succeeds, we'd like that to be a reflection of the plans' validity, rather than the product of a random number generator.

We take a lot of inspiration from pen-and-paper RPGs. They do such a good job of allowing you to express yourself in the game, giving you a lot of ownership over your experience. Much of that expression comes out of building synergies inside your characters, or building synergies with your fellow adventurers. Those combos are something that really defines your character's personality and play style. I really like those moments where I find a special strategy or skill combo so creative and powerful that I feel like I'm cheating. That's what makes me feel like a legendary hero.

That sense of creative expression also emerges from the solutions you are able to can enact while exploring a dungeon in a pen-and-paper RPG. Simple moments such as disarming a trap or climbing a ledge can be rife with opportunities to make you feel like MacGyver, particularly when you have to improvise. That kind of creative problem solving is something we strive to incorporate into our dungeon crawling. Free form problem solving is something that PnP RPGs excel at, and can be very hard for video games to replicate, but they act as a holy grail we can strive for. We want players to walk out of dungeons with a story to tell, where they feel like the star and not just a spectator.

RPGWatch: Since you've announced that the game will feature 30 (or more?) levels, many people are excited. Will every level be a unique dungeon to explore, or will some styles of dungeons be re-used?

David: I think it goes without saying that if two dungeons are identical, we've done something wrong. The similarities between dungeons can largely be drawn down cultural lines. The style of architecture, puzzles, and traps used by the elves may be common amongst Elven or Ficti dungeons, but share little in common with the dungeons of the Charn or Dwarves. However, no two dungeons of the same culture should be combining their cultural elements together in exactly the same way.

The dungeons in the main quest line in particular are given extra care, with a focus on giving each cool set pieces and memorable design.

RPGWatch: Combat is a very important factor in a good dungeon-crawl RPG. How do you plan on managing things such as re-spawn rate, random encounters and general encounter design inside a dungeon?

David: While epic boss battles against giant monsters will still exist, Combat in The Bard's Tale IV is focused on group vs. group combat. This allows us to build enemies with really distinct capabilities and then combine them with other enemies to create something that feels like a wholly unique challenge to overcome.

For the most part, we still haven't fully decided on how we want to manage enemy respawning, or the lack thereof, but we have a lot of ideas. This is a great question, but I don't think it's one I can give a satisfying answer to right now as we're still iterating.

RPGWatch: Dungeon-crawl RPGs are known for great length and plenty of time investment in order to craft your ultimate party. How long do you think the game will run, and will there be a lot of side content in the form of side quests to add length to the game?

David: It is too early to say how long the game will be until we have locked down content and gameplay, but we always strive to hit the right balance between lengthy games with a lot of depth while still delivering a highly polished experience.

RPGWatch: Approaching content in any order that you would like is important to get a more "open" feeling game. Will there be multiple dungeons to tackle at once, and will the player have options as to which dungeon they should explore next?

David: There absolutely will be free choice involved. There will be times when you have multiple quests and dungeons that need your attention and it'll be up to you to decide which order you tackle them in, or if you tackle them at all.

RPGWatch: Party management is great fun in a dungeon-crawl RPG, especially when status-altering effects and other factors come into play. What sort of "game within a game" mechanics can we expect while we're diving into these dungeons? What factors will we have to manage along the way?

David: There are some tried and true mechanics you'll be playing as you crawl through a dungeon. We'll ask players to manage a finite number of consumables to ensure they're in peak fighting condition when a combat occurs. This could be health potions, anti-venoms, or even things relating to trap avoidance and secret discovery, such as lock pick sets. We're also asking players to decide if and where to make camp after a hard day of adventuring. We're all RPG fans here, so we don't necessarily try to re-invent the wheel at every turn.

With that said, there are also elements about our game that should feel really unique to The Bard's Tale. We want to incorporate music into our gameplay in a major way. We have some major talent, both on the writing and musical front. We want to bring those big guns to bear by having the player gleam insight about the various cultures of Caith through its music, and then be able to sing the magically attuned songs of Caith that they've learned in order to interact with the world.

RPGWatch: We know some gamers prefer a challenging game in this genre. So, what sort of "hardcore" options will be available for these daring adventurers?

David: We've discussed the various ways we could incorporate multiple difficulties and challenge modes into the game, but haven't locked ourselves into any firm decisions yet.

RPGWatch: Will dungeons vary in difficulty based on which level you are currently exploring? For example, I have a quest that sends me to level 1 of a dungeon. However, level 2 and 3 are much more difficult, and the quests to pursue for those levels are a bit further down the line. Will there be any revisiting of previous dungeons for any reason, or once a dungeon is clear, it's clear?

David: We like discovering enemies in the world that are clearly too dangerous for us, leveling up, and then returning to slay those enemies. It helps provide such a sense of growth and makes me feel like I've overcome a personal goal I've set myself. Also, revisiting old dungeons is certainly on the table. Dungeons may not necessarily be grind-able, but specific events in the story might result in a dungeon being repopulated with new and harder enemies.

RPGWatch: Loot is always an important factor in RPGs. Will the game feature rare drops, randomized loot drops, unidentified items and more? Can you talk more about how the loot will work in general?

David: We for sure will have an item rarity system and some level of randomized loot drops for our core enemies. Not all of our items will be randomly acquired, however. For example, a pivotal boss battle might have set drops. We also like the suspense of having to identify a mysterious magic item, or the gamble you take when you wield an unidentified magic item that may have a curse on it. We also mentioned, in our Kickstarter, the concept of weapons that have hidden potential that you unlock by interacting with them.

To speak about the loot system in general, we like it when the party shares a common inventory space, rather than having to hunt down which of your six party members backpacks you put a given item in.

We also want a character's gear to play a role in what abilities they have access to, and therefore what strategic options they have in battle. An example of this is a magic trinket that has a bound spell on it. If a party has several of these trinkets they may see an enemy off in the distance and swap out their equipped trinkets in order to counter an enemy group with a specific ability found on that item, without having to totally re-spec their character.

RPGWatch: How will summoning work? Will any creature in the game be able to be summoned, and will they come complete with their own equipment, stats and special abilities?

David: The majority of our summons come from our Sorcerer and Wizard classes. The Sorcerer can conjure illusions. These illusions are able to harm the enemy, but only for as long as the enemy believes in them. The wizard can rip minions from the demon plane into the plane of man to do their bidding. Demons function similarly to any other character on your party, with their own abilities and stats, but tend to be less complex than a core member of your party. Their mere presence on the battlefield also has some really cool implications given the highly spacial nature of our combat system.

RPGWatch: From a hopeful game designer to one of the best in the business, I ask - What is your #1 advice for someone looking to design their own RPG, or get into the RPG-creating business?

David: Start now. The barriers to entry for becoming a game creator are lower than ever. Whether you're creating pen and paper game systems and self-publishing online, or you're learning programs like Unity and creating your own game, the best way to become an established game designer is to start making games and getting them out into the world. The feedback, however little, is invaluable.

One key piece of advice I would offer is to start small. It's unrealistic to make your opus on the first try. The chances of success go up dramatically the smaller and more focused your idea. That game design opus you have rolling around in your head isn't going anywhere and doesn't lose value over time. On the contrary, the more failed projects you learn from before attempting to create your opus, the better it will turn out when you finally get the time and resources needed to take a serious crack at your dream project.

 

[Bubbles]

RPGWatch: From a hopeful game designer to one of the best in the business

What kind of video game are you making, fluent?

 

[Infinitron]

David Rogers Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/DavidCraigRogers

He's made some comments about Warhammer rulesets and stuff.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

What kind of video game are you making, fluent?

Hey.

I'm not actually making anything right now. When I wrote this question (some months ago), I was closer to acting on creating a fully fleshed-out design document for an RPG I was kicking ideas around for.

It hasn't really happened yet, but who knows what the future holds.

 

[Infinitron]

Just noticed the last Kickstarter update had some fantastic comments: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/the-bards-tale-iv/posts/1562643

good news...
this is NOT a final iteration!
* immersion killer... abstract, non-cohesive, fake.
* both teams facing you ... though cute... not practical or logical.
* adding 2D combat to a 3D world?
even the original Bard's Tale didn't do this... why now???
* if you MUST take this game breaking immersion killing 2D approach...
LOTS OF good examples out there...
though NONE fit into a 3D adventure like Bard's Tale
*** *** ***
you CAN use the same mechanics in a 3D world...
by using 'party formation' options
then when combat starts zoom out on the field and freeze
your 'formation' still factors into who is up front and who is rear...
but you still have the real 3D world... real characters... current scenario/situation..
this worked EXTREMELY well for games like
Dragon Age Origins (original) and Divinity: Original Sin..
also check Drakensang (the most underrated RPG of all time)
... all have excellent turn based part combat that does NOT kill immersion!

I wonder which "original Bard's Tale" he's talking about.

So, I'd like to share some critical thoughts on this. Please understand that I am simply being clear to help you understand my point and not just complaining.

Okay so while I understand and appreciate how the combat system will work, this look was absolutely NOT what I was expecting or even looking forward to.

I really, really hate First Person dungeon crawlers . The primary reason being the the fact that when I have a party of characters, I dislike the fact that I do not see my own party characters and their animations play out. The other thing is the absolutely abnormal movement systems where you move one 'block' at a time and take 90 degree turns. Completely destroys the immersion and atmosphere for me.

I was honestly expecting this to be a third person view behind the backs of your party. Because compared to simply seeing my party members' Faces (only art that too, not even their 3d models), I'd prefer an isometric look similar to Wasteland 2 or Torment any day. I understand it's something I should've expected seeing how the previous Bard's Tales were made, but I was under the impression that this would be what was changed when you were making the game in 3d in Unreal 4.

Thanks.

Get rid of blobbers, no characters on the HUD please. Reminds me of old school RPG's too much.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

Help me Codex, I backed this blobber and now I am totally disappointed that it is a bloober! I didn't expect this blobber that was pitched as a sequel to a classical blobber to be a blobber, what the hell are they thinking!

 

[Saxon1974]

Dam they are quiet on this game...

 

[SniperHF]

Dam they are quiet on this game...

They were relatively quiet on Torment too for awhile. But also BT doesn't have the more public faces of InXile working on it either.

 

[Sacred82]

Talking about the game probably would mean talking more about the New Orleans studio as well.

 

[Saxon1974]

They were relatively quiet on Torment too for awhile. But also BT doesn't have the more public faces of InXile working on it either.

Well if they are working away all is well...but in today's age very little info isn't usually good.

 

[uaciaut]

Any news of alpha-access for backers or some shit? Completely forgot about backing this up to today and i'm too lazy to go through all the updates D:

 

[prodigydancer]

inXile New Orleans. People hard at work.

Spoiler

 

[Zombra]

Any news of alpha-access for backers or some shit? Completely forgot about backing this up to today and i'm too lazy to go through all the updates D:

Nah, I'm pretty sure BT4 is still in preproduction. Don't expect any kind of playable build in the short to medium range future.

 

[Infinitron]

UPDATE: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/the-bards-tale-iv/posts/1636433

Character Progression

Howdy citizens of Caith. David here, back to share some juicy details about The Bard's Tale IV. Taking a short break from combat mechanics, during this update we'll be covering a subject that I'm sure is very near and dear to all RPG lovers' hearts - character progression. Specifically, we'll be talking about character advancement: gaining experience, specializing your adventurer, being judged by the Review Board, and lastly the role equipment plays in your character's growth. The details we go over are all subject to change as we continue to playtest and tune the game, but should provide a good sense of the overall direction of The Bard's Tale IV's character progression system.

Experience is a concept that RPG fans should be very accustomed to. Besting foes, solving ancient riddles, and rediscovering forgotten parts of the old world all grant experience, which naturally leads to leveling up. In The Bard's Tale IV, our goal with character advancement is to find a balanced system that always provides a meaningful amount of growth at even its smallest increments, while also being fun to use. For us, this centers around our skill tree.

The original Bard's Tale trilogy had a character progression system closely tied to your starting class, plus the fascinating idea of evolving into different types as you reached higher levels. A budding Conjurer could progress down that track, or change professions and learn to be a Magician, Wizard, Sorcerer, and ultimately an Archmage. We are retaining this strong class-based focus in The Bard's Tale IV. We’re also opening up this more in-depth character progression to all the classes, allowing each class to specialize into their own set of sub-classes. By merging the sub-class concept into a tree structure, we are better able to give each adventurer meaningful and impactful choices each time you level up.

Each class has access to its own unique skill tree. From here, your adventurer is able to learn how to wield new gear, gain attribute points, learn new abilities, and gain passive effects. Basically, your character can be fully described through their skill tree. At a glance, you can tell a Sorcerer from a Wizard, a Thief from an Assassin, and a Vanguard from a Commander, all just by looking at their skill tree. Each time one of your Adventurers levels up, they are granted a single point to spend on their skill tree, with each skill costing exactly one point.

While skill trees can have a lot of options, their complexity grows along with the adventurer. The very first view you might have of your skill tree as a Fighter might look a little something like this, showing only a smaller number of skills to unlock:

The image above is a mockup using placegolder art, but should give you a sense of what this might look like in the game.
In the above image we see the player has a few choices to pick from for their fledgling Fighter: learning to wield more advanced one handed weapons, learning to wield great weapons, gaining access to battle standards, wearing more protective armor, gaining bundles of attribute points, learning a new passive, or learning to craft basic potions. You'll notice that many of those choices also carry along with them some increased attributes as an added bonus.

For those of you thinking that's all there is, don't worry. You'll be able to view your entire skill tree from the get go. For simplicity's sake we set the default view to show you only what you have available at a given level, and what's just beyond the horizon. However, you can always zoom out to see the full number of options available to your adventurers as they grow into heroes of legend.

As you unlock new skills, you'll begin to also unlock the next tier of options in your skill tree. That's displayed by the counter under each tier header, with each tier requiring a total number of skill points spent character-wide. The adventurer above, for example, has so far unlocked seven out of nine skills needed to progress to Tier 3. These tiers play a role in a character's growth in a few ways, some more obvious than others. First, it helps create big milestones in the career of your adventurer. Just as you've advanced your progression towards one or more sub-classes and your options have begun to taper down, you unlock a new tier and your available options explode out again. It also provides incentive to each adventurer to acquire skills they might not have otherwise, encouraging exploration within your build. Lastly, it allows us as designers to deliver a more balanced experience because we can better ensure that at least some minimum number of points were spent towards defensive and offensive skills in one form or another during the early stages of the game. What kind of armor and fighting style you adopt and eventually specialize in later on is entirely up to you.

Once a character has spent the needed number of skill points to reach the next tier within their skill tree, it's time to visit the Review Board. For those of you who are new to The Bard's Tale series, the Review Board is a returning oldie but goodie – it is a milestone in your journey as an adventurer. We ask you to perform a pilgrimage of sorts back to Skara Brae to come before the Review Board and be deemed worthy (or not) of their blessing. If found worthy, the next tier in your skill tree unlocks, and along with it a whole world of new possibilities.

In older Bard's Tale games you visited the Review Board each time you wanted to level up. Since we'll be traveling far beyond the borders of Skara Brae, into distant lands and realms far from home, we wanted to keep the game moving forward by requiring you to return to the Review Board less frequently while still staying true to this staple of the series. We also know that when you level up, you generally want to spend your new skill points immediately rather than having to wait till you leave a dungeon to see the Review Board.

As you progress through an adventurer's skill tree you'll encounter an increasing amount of choice, some of which comes in the form of mutually exclusive branching. This is when a pre-requisite line branches and selecting one branch causes the other branch to lock, like so:

Here we see that this Fighter is seeking to continue their training in armored combat. They could continue their training in Medium Armor, or she could choose to begin training in Heavy Armor. Medium Armor tends to provide a well balanced mix of offensive and defensive attributes, while also granting special passive abilities that make you a more flexible and supportive fighter. Heavy Armor, on the other hand, tends to be more defensive than offensive and can provide unique buffs to how you move around the battlefield, even allowing you to push allies and enemies around with your sheer bulk. Once that choice is made, the remaining branch is locked off and cannot be selected, and as you continue to invest points that will naturally lead you in directions that play towards certain sub-class archetypes. This will encourage you to make your character choices wisely and specialize your roles throughout your entire party, and will mean that even if you have multiple characters of the same class, they will still end up feeling significantly different.

Reaching the end of one of these prerequisite skill tree paths is the goal for many an adventurer. Much like how Conjurers can specialize to become Wizards, Magicians, Sorcerers, and ultimately Archmages in the classic Bard's Tale games, our other classes are also able to specialize and attain titles of their own to evolve their capabilities. The Fighter, for instance, is able to become a Vanguard, Veteran, Commander, Champion, or Defender – each carrying with them their own game-changing abilities, gear, and passives.

We'll have a number of sub-classes for each main character class available on the skill tree. Here's some directions a basic Fighter might be able to evolve.
That said, an adventurer can still be a master of many aspects of their chosen profession. While it's impossible to gain every title and master every skill line, a true adventurer of legend may eventually master two or three. This is one of the many important ways we ensure that even max level characters of the same class feel very different from one another. A fully unlocked skill tree looks like this:

For those of you looking closely at the skill tree descriptions, which I'm confident many of you are, you might be wondering where you get your combat abilities from. Many of them, in fact, do not feature in the skill tree directly – instead, the place you acquire abilities is actually from your equipment. As you progress down the skill tree you unlock the ability to wield new and more exotic weapons, off-hand items, and trinkets. You may unlock access to a single item, such as a battle standard, or an entire category of items, such as Tier 2 great weapons. These items each have a specific ability or abilities. By wielding a great club you'd be able to use Lumbering Strike during battle, while wielding a battle standard would allow you to rally your allies with the ability "To Me, Brothers." As a certain weapon is used, an adventurer will eventually master its abilities, allowing them to keep using those abilities even without needing the weapon equipped. This will let you naturally unlock a vast amount of tactical flexibility over the course of the game.

And lastly, equipment such as your helm, armor, and boots also play a major role in your character's growth and progression. Through the skill tree you're also able gain access to increasingly powerful and exotic armor, robes, costumes, garbs, habits, and accoutrement. Your gear accounts for a major chunk of your adventurer's attributes. How many blows your character can withstand, how able he or she is to focus the eldritch forces, and their mental fortitude is heavily influenced by what mystic equipment they've found and learned to use throughout their journeys. These items can also grant you unique passive abilities that can help you form powerful combos. Itemization is an important aspect of The Bard's Tale IV and we've only given you a cursory glance, so we'll be touching on it more later.

By the good graces of the Review Board, wise choices made in your skill tree, and only the most potent of enchanted war gear, your adventurer can become a one of a kind hero whose deeds will be chronicled through song for an age.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

It's alive!

 

[imweasel]

I'm not a fan of skill trees.

Not only does it remind me of Dragon Age 2, it is a waste of screen space.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

I'm not a fan of skill trees.

Not only does it remind me of Dragon Age 2, it is a waste of screen space.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[iZerw]

Skill trees, tier 1 weapons... What is it, an MMO game?

 

[Infinitron]

Let's check out the comments...

Would it be possible to have an additional option to automatically spent the skill points when a character levels up? No need to spent time for manual choices then, though, it may be true that most of people wants to customize their characters personally.

I have been so excited about this game, until this post. Bard's Tale was fun because it was simple. Why add all this complexity which doesn't add anything to the fun. Am I seriously going to have interruopt the game and put a lot of thought into whether my fighter should be able to use Medium Armor or Heavy Armor. That's ridiculous. Please at least give us the option to play the game without having to deal with this system. Maybe make it behind the scenes and automatic. Hopefully this sytem will be stripped down in beta testing.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

Let's check out the comments...

How come the inXile fans are such raging plebs?

 

[J_C]

Let's check out the comments...

The second one must be a troll,right? Right guys?

 

[theSavant]

counting up the skillpoints to level 30 you can almost be everything at once: a chief-commander-defender-veteran-champion

Spoiler

Kingcomrade

What's the point in that? Not encouraging to use the same class for a 2nd playthrough or use multiple of the same class in your party. They'll all end up the same way.

Like a

where you can do nothing wrong. No matter how you distribute your points, you'll always end up with some kind of average streamlined mainstream build. I expected skilltrees allowing at max 2-3 subclasses at once, so skill evaluation would be more distinct and challenging.

I liked the Wiz8 system more, where you manually put points from 1-100 into the specific class skills...