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Prosper The Dark Lord Beholder (formerly Eye of the Beholder 4)

Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Messages
213
EoB 3 demonstrates how terrible EoB combat is by having an all attack button. It didn't make the combat crappy by having it. I believe at least some of the AD&D blobbers had the mouse click go through all of the player attacks one by one.
 

Jerker

Educated
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
26
and yes I do have wrist problems (like probably the majority of the posters here) and i prefer to play keyboard based games that don't have a needless and unnecessary use for the mouse (such as pixel-hunting).

I have lateral epicondylitis which results in fucking agony if I use a mouse for more than a few hours at a time. I got a trackball and since then my wrist and elbow have been mostly pain free apart from a bit of stiffness. trackball is fine unless you're into twitch popamole gaming that requires pixel precision.
 
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aweigh

Self-Ejected
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Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
yah i been considering trackball for a while now. thanks for at least confirming it's easier on the wrists. and nah, i stopped playing action games years ago. i mostly play blobbers/rpgs now.
 

neilsouth

Augur
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
234
The developer responded

Eye of the Beholder 4 I will try to hold any right of the material included in the final product. The game is under development and any cost will be needed for copyrights will be covered, that is the reason I am going to launch the indiegogo campaign to cover all copyright and design costs for everything. For now the game is under developement and nothing is final yet. So when the final product will be released it will be genuine and clear. So if you contribute to my campaign and trust me you will not be dissappointed. I am a loyayal and I respect peoples work
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
The good old "I'm doing the game first and getting the rights later".
What could go wrong? I always trust loyayal people.
 

Zetor

Arcane
Joined
Jan 9, 2003
Messages
1,706
Location
Budapest, Hungary
It isn't really EOB4 unless I can import my band of (beholder/dragon/lich)-killing psychos from EOB3 along with their overpowered gear.
 

Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
Patron
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Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
after playing through a ton of blobbers i don't think mouse-controls add absolutely anything to the experience.

i believe the most efficient way to have blobber navigation is to use step-grid movement and instead of mouse-look for pixel-hunting to utilize a "Search" key that searches either the a) tile the party is standing on, or b) the direction the party is facing. it accomplishes the same thing as utilizing the mouse for pixel-hunting inside a tile.

Turn-based grognard detected.

What you're advocating is the abandonment of any real-time elements in blobbers for the return to the tried and tested turn-based controls - that the game sits there idling while waiting for you to input a command that it executes like a faithful dog.

While turn-based gameplay has its place, the primary reason that it was used in role-playing games is because of technical limitations - real-time role-playing simply wasn't possible except in a very limited capacity until about 1990. Looking over the evolution of role-playing, guess what is THE number one element of role-playing games (and strategy games, come to think of it) that was abandoned with technological advancement?

Your comment that mouse controls don't add anything to the experience - you're wrong. When you're playing [Insert turn-based RPG of choice here] and tell your party to 'Search' for secret doors, you are instructing your party to do the job for you while you sit back and wait. When you're clicking on the walls to find the secret button, it's YOU doing it, YOU are directly involved. It's a case of immersion, and it's one of the biggest reasons why blobbers like Dungeon Master and EotB became the big hits that they were.

and yes I do have wrist problems (like probably the majority of the posters here) and i prefer to play keyboard based games that don't have a needless and unnecessary use for the mouse (such as pixel-hunting). I make some exceptions of course when the game itself is designed around mouse use such as a Fallout game, for example, but there is absolutely no reason why a traditional step-grid tile-based blobber needs mouse-look.

even non-turn based blobbers such as EotB can and should simply utilize hotkeys for activating a party member's primary attack. I've heard a very silly argument before that doing that would eliminate a big part of the challenge and fun of the games combat, so i simply ask you this, non-turn based blobber lovers:

...is waiting for a cool-down bar to fill up and mousing over to the sword icon and clicking it REAAAAAAALLY that much different than waiting for a cool-down bar to fill up and moving your finger over to a hotkey and tapping it?

i am 100% pro-PC master race but mouse-controls should not necessarily be the default answer. the more blobbers i play the more i realize that a good, solid keyboard is all a game really needs.

Ah. Now I see the core of your argument. You're a crippled old man who can't keep up with the young whipper-snappers that can use the mouse effectively, therefore you build the ludicrious argument that 'probably the majority of the posters here' suffer from the same condition you do in order to make yourself appear (and feel) on equal terms with everyone.

Let me give you my perspective - I don't use WASD-controls on the keyboard, instead I use the numeric keypad. And I have the mouse on the left-hand side of the keyboard. I use this for every game I play (except the ones that don't require a mouse, obviously). As a result I'm called a 'freak' or a 'cripple'. Right here, on the Codex. The only thing I need from a game in order to make my 'freakiness' work is for the game to allow me to customize my controls, and I have raged and ranted when a game doesn't allow me to do so (because the option to customize a game's controls goes back to the mid-1980s). But that's where I stop. You take this one step further and give us a "computer mice are dead"-esque statement because you can't keep up with them, you're stating that games are better off regressing and de-evolving rather than you admitting your place.

As for your argument...a keyboard is a very versatile input device but a non-intuitive one, and most certainly an immersion-breaking one. It doesn't feel like it's an extension of yourself...which is precisely the case with the mouse. It moves with your hand and fits snugly in it. The keyboard is designed to be immobile, which immediately breaks a 'connection' between the game and the player. Same thing with a trackball. And any keyboard-based control scheme that requires that the player removes his hands from one set of keys to another, also breaks the 'player-game' contact. Modern-day console controllers, while lacking the versatility of a keyboard, are smaller and lighter and were specifically designed for our hands and can move with them, and then the Wii controller takes this a step further with the motion tracker.

You want to stay in 1987 with your turn-based role-playing games? Then be my guest, but keep in mind that you're in an ever-dwindling minority with an outdated point of view.
 

Fowyr

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Mar 29, 2009
Messages
7,671
You want to stay in 1987 with your turn-based role-playing games? Then be my guest, but keep in mind that you're in an ever-dwindling minority with an outdated point of view.

What the fuck did you just fucking say about my games, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my party in the Dugeon Master, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Tyranthraxus, Xanathar, Warlord and Nimtar, and I have over 30 000 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top tactician in the entire world of CRPG players. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the erstwhile KGB and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.


Now to get serious:

While turn-based gameplay has its place, the primary reason that it was used in role-playing games is because of technical limitations - real-time role-playing simply wasn't possible except in a very limited capacity until about 1990. Looking over the evolution of role-playing, guess what is THE number one element of role-playing games (and strategy games, come to think of it) that was abandoned with technological advancement?
It's a fucking bullshit. Just play Whiteboxes. This question was talked to death many times.

In my opinion, people are just idiots that love dumbed down shit. :M :M :M


Considering keyboard question, I'd rather press cursor keys than press "north" button 560 times. Mouse has its uses, but keyboard, especially fully used as in most roguelikes, is much better than mouse.
 
Last edited:

octavius

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
19,185
Location
Bjørgvin
[

While turn-based gameplay has its place, the primary reason that it was used in role-playing games is because of technical limitations - real-time role-playing simply wasn't possible except in a very limited capacity until about 1990. Looking over the evolution of role-playing, guess what is THE number one element of role-playing games (and strategy games, come to think of it) that was abandoned with technological advancement?

Your comment that mouse controls don't add anything to the experience - you're wrong. When you're playing [Insert turn-based RPG of choice here] and tell your party to 'Search' for secret doors, you are instructing your party to do the job for you while you sit back and wait. When you're clicking on the walls to find the secret button, it's YOU doing it, YOU are directly involved. It's a case of immersion, and it's one of the biggest reasons why blobbers like Dungeon Master and EotB became the big hits that they were.

Huh? Using the skill of the characters is one element of role-playing that is lost by the player instead using the mouse for pixel hunting. So it's really the opposite of what you are saying. If you said using player "skill" instead of characters' skill makes a better game, then you may have a case. In any case variety is good, and that is what DM brought.


Let me give you my perspective - I don't use WASD-controls on the keyboard, instead I use the numeric keypad. And I have the mouse on the left-hand side of the keyboard. I use this for every game I play (except the ones that don't require a mouse, obviously). As a result I'm called a 'freak' or a 'cripple'. Right here, on the Codex.

Really? I'd call you left handed.
 

k0syak

Cipher
Joined
Sep 24, 2013
Messages
408
EoB 3 demonstrates how terrible EoB combat is by having an all attack button. It didn't make the combat crappy by having it. I believe at least some of the AD&D blobbers had the mouse click go through all of the player attacks one by one.
The Ravenlofts and Menzoberranzan did IIRC
 
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aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
honestly what's the big fucking deal with:

cool-down MMO bar finishes filling up on stupid-cum-in-mouth-hero-NPC #1 and his giant sword icon starts flashing. you move your greasy bacon-fat stained finger over to to Stupid-Cum-In-Mouth-Hero-NPC #1's hotkey for primary attack, i.e. "1". it would be "1" because your hand is obviously on WASD for movement and 1-4 would be the attack hotkeys.

you press "1" and Stupid-Cum-In-Mouth-Hero-NPC #1 lets out a badly recorded audio bark as an amateurish white cum-stain looking Fruit Ninja-style line "swipes" over the monster and then your eyes glaze over as Stupid-Cum-In-Mouth-Hero-NPC #1's MMO cool-down bar begins to start filling up again.

lather rinse repeat for hotkeys 1-4 or whatever. I'd much rather do that than have to laboriously move my right arm and injure my wrist unnecessarily by having to twitch-mouse constantly over the flashing sword icon of Stupid-Cum-In-Mouth-Hero-NPC #1 through #4 while waiting for their MMO Cool-Down bars to fill up. get the fuck out of here with that shit.

fucking non-turn based blobbers. UGH.
 

Ladonna

Arcane
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
10,640
aweigh, both you and the Unkillable Cat sound like retards at the moment. I hope at least one of you is joking.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,523
RPGCodex in not actually liking crpgs, just one certain game or two or one certain kind of game and then expecting every other game to be like it shocker.
 

Jacob

Pronouns: Nick/Her
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Messages
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Hatington
Grab the Codex by the pussy
what about real time blobber that doesn't require a mouse


note: skip to 6 minutes+ to jump on to the gameplay
 

Fowyr

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Mar 29, 2009
Messages
7,671
aweigh, both you and the Unkillable Cat sound like retards at the moment. I hope at least one of you is joking.
Mr. Small Letters is right about double controls for attack, though. It's always better when attack can be done not only by mouse (EoB), but with keyboard as well (Anvil of Dawn, Summoning). Pretty much it's always good when there are double controls for everything.
 

Daemongar

Arcane
Joined
Nov 21, 2010
Messages
4,706
Location
Wisconsin
Codex Year of the Donut
Golfer's elbow, similar to tennis elbow but a different part of the elbow and is caused by repetitive movements of the wrist and finger muscles, tennis elbow is related to forearm muscles. And it can get quite fucking painful so :roll: yourself dickhead.
Come on you big baby. Quite painful!? Have you ever had a chainsaw dig into your thigh, then have to put it in reverse to get it out? Have you ever had your arm stuck in a milking machine? Have you ever been triggered so bad, you cried yourself to sleep for days? Don't tell me about pain, mac. At least you could use your mouse or your dick with your other hand and life went back to normal. Some people don't have it so lucky.
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
hey i don't dispute my retardedness but... dude, unkillable cat whipped out the "turn based was a technological limitation!" card. call me retard all you want brah but don't you dare compare me to him!
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,158
I know its indie not the kind of game the dex cover, but i also know a few of us are fan of RT blobbers .Some enthusiastic modder is working on the spiritual sequel of eye of the beholder with added level editor . An indieogo campaign is going on:
https://fundanything.com/en/campaigns/development-of-a-video-game?col=-71633

6e95e3e0-e003-4e65-8c5d-f344aeec6af1.jpg


5a8bf299-602a-4e6d-a5b2-837b80f9d971.jpg

bc67230b-582a-4e5d-8b5b-8f167b13597d.jpg

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All the development detail is on the facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/eyeofthebeholder4

and finally demo is here:
https://app.box.com/s/3alq0j9fww3wsws8rg0z9yd2yusez9jg
 

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