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Decline New King's Quest game - MASSIVE DECLINE Everything is shit

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
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Jan 28, 2011
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97,461
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
John Walker's try-hard temper tantrums are starting to become predictable.
 

Lambonius

Infamous Quests
Developer
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
53
John Walker is such a tool. People love to hate on "Frisco hipsters" around here, and I totally enjoy jumping on that bandwagon now and again, but John Walker...man. THAT guy is the very definition of insufferable hipsterdom. His "reviews" are contrarian just for the sake of it. I'm still trying to figure out what his ideal adventure game would be, because he seems to hate literally everything about the way adventure games (traditional or not) are designed, and yet claims to be some kind of purist. The guy is a fucking moron.

Another case where the blistering stupidity of a "review" is forcing me into a position of defending a game that I still find deeply flawed in many respects.

The only thing dumber than a John Walker review is a person who bases their video game purchase decisions on John Walker reviews.
 

MRY

Wormwood Studios
Developer
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
5,716
Location
California
I'm still trying to figure out what his ideal adventure game would be, because he seems to hate literally everything about the way adventure games (traditional or not) are designed, and yet claims to be some kind of purist.
He loves Blackwell, I think?
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,969
Location
Russia
Played first chapter. I don't think it's a bad product and I think it may turn out to be not a bad story either. However it's absurdly easy and it does feature quite an amount of backtracking because the world is limited. Shame for Korgoth's posts because his predictions turned out to be all wrong, I believe - game plays nothing like KQ, any KQ, or any Q really. It is not about deduction, keywords, item combination or puzzles. It's a little bit more complex than Telltale Games - just enough that game can't be finished by writing a macro for your mouse, with a few Dragon's Lair-like QTE's.

It also doesn't look as good as any decent adventure game, the only impressive part is Graham's cloak, maybe also dragon's fire and pumpkin lantern. Textures and colors are often too grim and drab for my taste, especially trees.

I guess I should mention that there are ways how you can go through the game and choices that will be made (cosmetic mostly), but they are so obvious and not interesting from gameplay's perspective, plus not so long ago Heroine's Quest did that and more so much better.

So basically... it's kinda shit. I'd put it in the same bag as other wannabes like Borken Age, Derpfall, Telltale games, and send that back for one copy of something like another Dark Eye adventure, Deponia, or even something pixel made by two chums a-la Technobabylon.
 
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Lambonius

Infamous Quests
Developer
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
53
Full review from a very grumpy old gamer (me.)

Alright, I've had enough time after finishing the episode and starting two new playthroughs that I feel like I'm in a good place to share a more thorough review.


First thing's first:

I like it. The game has won me over, despite my initial misgivings and my distaste for some of the on-rails "modern" sequences (more on that later.)
The most important element of this game is whether or not it successfully does what it sets out to do, which is to blend classic adventure gameplay with "modern" (God, I hate the way that word is used to talk about dumbed down gameplay) sensibilities. I would go so far as to say that the result is the best mainstream modern adventure game out there right now. Granted, the only competition is Telltale, so go figure.

Telltale really did a number on adventure games. It's no secret that I utterly loathe Telltale's game design philosophy. Perhaps more than just the fact that their games are not my cup of tea, I hate the way they've had this serious impact on what the world at large thinks contemporary adventure games should look and play like, and the way they should be structured and released (episodically.) The fact that The Odd Gentlemen deliberately tried to deviate from this arguably safer approach and has successfully blended old and new deserves much praise, in my opinion.

Okay, now to specifics:


Story:

I've said it before and I'll say it again; I think the way The Odd Gentlemen is handling the narrative is the best possible way to revive the series. The framing narrative that allows the game to seamlessly combine prequel, sequel, and reboot is brilliant. The writing is charming, the characters fun and memorable, and the humor is both witty and kid-friendly (though your mileage may vary.)

That said, I stand by my criticism that this game gets the tonal balance wrong. Despite the disparities between individual entries in the classical King's Quest series, there was a consistent tone (up until 7, but that's one of the reasons why I hate 7,) and while this game doesn't miss the mark completely, it is different enough that I found it very distracting and off-putting at first. It is objectively sillier and more cartoonish in both its humor and world logic than any previous KQ game, but I think that's okay. I can accept taking the series in a fresh tonal direction, even if it does feel somewhat derivative of other, better adventure games (Curse of Monkey Island, for example.)


Audio/Visual:

No surprises here. The game looks and sounds great. Your mileage may vary on the art direction, but at least it's consistent, and they absolutely own the visual style. It fits with the more cartoonish tone, and looks vivid and beautiful on a big screen. People have already discussed the great voice acting at length, so I won't go over it again here. It's great. The music is evocative and perfectly suits every scene where it appears. The classic KQ melodic hints are great, and I hope we get more of that kind of thing in future episodes. The classic point chime is a nice touch, but I wish it was used more frequently when you actually accomplish tasks, as opposed to just picking up inventory items. Still, it was an effective nostalgia device, certainly.


Gameplay:

Here we come to the heart of the matter, and the area where I certainly find the most faults. I've already said that I think this game manages a perfect blend of old and new, and once it opens up and allows for freedom of exploration and some non-linear puzzling, it becomes a really good time.

That said, they opened the game in just about the worst way possible. It's not JUST the on-rails sequence in the well, but really the first 2 hours of the game are extremely linear, find the single hotspot, and push A to proceed. This was a terrible decision if they were trying to draw old school adventure game fans into this game. I've read a number of posts on different forums of people who basically gave up on the game because SO much of the first portion was straight, linear, and overly simplistic. I can only hope that this is just a feature of this first episode, to try and gradually introduce new players to adventure game mechanics, but if future episodes maintain this pacing and those long linear stretches of gameplay, I'll be sorely disappointed.

Again, once you get to the tournament and the game opens up, the experience really starts to feel like a classic adventure, albeit a simple and easy one.

The controls work well and feel a lot like Grim Fandango on PC, but with more fluid animation and movement. I think all the people lamenting the lack of fast travel are lazy crybaby morons, but I suppose the addition a sprint button wouldn't be a bad compromise. A sprint button could also add some depth to the action sequences, too, if you had control not only over direction, but also speed.

My one big gripe about the controls is the lack of a dedicated Look function. I have never bought the apologist argument that better graphics removes the need for a Look function. There were plenty of instances in my first playthrough where I found myself really missing the ability to right-click and get a description of the item, instead of just pressing a button to do the one single available interaction. When you have to choose between wheel substitutes, for example, it's very obvious that choosing one is going to lead you down a specific path, but you only have the option to interact with it; I'd have loved to be able to get an actual narrated description, maybe with Graham offering some thoughts about the implications of choosing that object, BEFORE I decided to pick it up.

The interactivity in the game also leaves a lot to be desired. From the standpoint of a fan of classic adventure games, this game world feels very sparse in comparison to the old games. There is a lot of great dialog here, and the multiple interaction responses for repeatedly clicking on certain objects are a lot of fun, but I can't help but feel like all that extra voice acting could have been better used if they had spread it around over MORE HOTSPOTS. There were a lot of beautiful screens that are visually dense that would have really benefited from the ability to examine non-essential objects and scenery to add some more narrative flavor to the world. The town square is a good example. The only extra object, other than the three shop doors, is the tree in the middle, but there's SO MUCH stuff in that scene. As is, in most cases, the only interactive objects are the items that are directly needed to progress the game. There are some exceptions, but I think a better balance could have been reached here, and it would have gone a long way to making the game feel more like a classic King's Quest game.

The puzzles themselves, while easy, are actually quite well done, I think. They do a nice job of getting gradually more complicated as the story goes on, which I think serves new players well. I would have liked to have seen a few more difficult or complex multi-stage puzzles, perhaps optional, so that more hardore adventure gamers would have had some stuff they could really sink their teeth into, but the sheer fact that there actually are this many puzzles in a mainstream adventure game made in 2015 in the shadow of Telltale (fucking Telltale) is something worthy of admiration. Thank you, Odd Gentlemen, for actually giving me something to DO in your adventure game.


Bugs:

The game runs nicely on my somewhat outdated laptop, which was a pleasant surprise. That said, I have encountered a number of minor bugs in my playthroughs. Nothing gamebreaking, but certainly some immersion breaking stuff. Graham's cape has a tendency to glitch out and stretch across the screen for a split second when changing scenes and in some closeups. I also had a few instances where the audio for dialog failed to play, and the mouths failed to move on characters, even though the characters themselves were clearly supposed to be speaking--they were gesturing and moving their heads, but no audio and no moving mouths. Weird. In any case, the game runs very smoothly, even on older hardware. I've got a shitty integrated Intel graphics card and only 4 GB ram, and I had very few issues and a smooth frame rate even on highest graphics settings.


Replayability:

This was another pleasant surprise. There is a LOT of optional dialog and content here. The game is obviously set up to be played at least 3 times to see the full extent of the different story choices and scenes, but what I was really impressed by was the amount of small changes from playthrough to play through. Little insignificant dialog choices seemed to have a lasting impact on the way certain characters approached you and interacted with you. The interactions with the bridge troll for example, seem to change quite a bit depending on a few different factors. I expect that some of the choices will have repercussions in future episodes, but it was nice to see so many little divergences within THIS episode itself. Another step up from Telltale, I'd say.

My one major gripe about the different choices is that the main divergent path choices are far too obviously sign-posted. Choice works best in games when you don't realize it's happening until you've already headed down a specific path. The sense of discovery is better when you can find the different paths out for yourself, as opposed to the game clearly telling you that you were at a crossroads and then giving you a big "Are you sure?" Yes or No prompt to confirm your choice. That kind of ruined it for me a bit. The Odd Gentlemen should take a page from The Witcher games and make the choices a little more subtle in future episodes, please.


Final Thoughts:

I enjoyed this first episode a lot more than I thought I would, to be completely honest. The gameplay formula that The Odd Gentlemen have created here is fun and engaging, and is a successful blend of classic and "modern" design. That said, I think a lot of what I like about this episode is the POTENTIAL that it has to become a great adventure game series, if they increase the gameplay complexity a bit in future episodes, and tone down the narrative silliness. The emotional beats in this game's story are really nice, and I hope that future episodes will give us some heavier moments of pathos.

As it stands, I'd give it a solid B-, maybe a B. Its adventure game heart is in the right place, but it feels a bit too much like it's pandering to the worst aspects of modern gamers--the lazy, GIVE IT TO ME NOW, ADHD attitude. Lose the on-rails action moments and the linear corridor runs, add a few more interactive hotspots to add more descriptive meat to the world, and give me a few more taxing puzzles, and this game could go from decent to great very quickly. All of the pieces are there.
 
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sser

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,866,687
5/6-hours for an episode is actually a lot. I'm sure that actually means 3/4 for competent players, but still. For comparison, I finished all of The Wolf Among Us (one of the worst games I've ever played, btw) in 7 hours.

John Walker quite obviously got mad because he sucks at platforming. Reviews like that are always interesting, because between all the lines you can almost visualize the reviewer failing over and over and getting ever more irritated. This, of course, follows them into typing the review, where soon objectivity is replaced by anger. I know, because I've been there (see: many of my initial impressions). But it doesn't make for a good review. Walker isn't exactly alone in that, though. I've seen 'angry' reviews seethe their way into print mags even.
 

Tramboi

Prophet
Patron
Joined
May 4, 2009
Messages
1,226
Location
Paris by night
Are you trying to say platforming in this game is halfway decent ?
Action segments in adventure games have a looong history of being shit.
 

Lambonius

Infamous Quests
Developer
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
53
There isn't any true platforming in the game. It's more of a Nathan Drake style bit, where you have limited control and have to react in time to avoid falling to your death. Not sure if that's any better. It's definitely one of the low points of the game. There's also a top-down sequence that reminds me a bit of the Word of God trial from the old Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade graphic adventure, but it's less of a true puzzle and more about pattern recognition.
 
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Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
5,894
Game length isn't necessarily good, though; in fact, it often leads to games in general being worse, since length doesn't mean content, it means padding. Even very good games suffer from this; the biggest example I can think of is the first Dark Souls, which is so very strong until Anor Londo, and then turns to shit after you get the Lordvessel. All areas after that point are demonstrably inferior, and it's quite obvious they were just trying to fill an arbitrary length quota as established by the industry. Lesser games suffer very heavily from this, with all the pointless collectible items and shitty side activities (see Ubishit open world games)

Gaming media is schizophrenic, at one point they seem to demand every game to be 50 hours long and bemoan anything shorter, some other time they whine incessantly about games being too long.

I, personally, would rather games be shorter and more dense, but then again my experiences are closely tied to the arcade culture of the 80's and early 90's. I don't mind if a game is long, but I can't stand pointless padding and quickly lose interest if that is the case.
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
I won't comment about the gameplay because I'll probably never play this. I could never get into the originals and I have far too many medieval adventure games I've bought and not played yet (like The Dark Eye games).

However, I will say this. The visual style of the game is fucking terrible. People say it looks like a Telltale game but it really doesn't. Telltale do the hand drawn thing, but make it look like it was professionally made - and not drawn by a child. They put detail and contrast into everything.

This, however, looks like it is one of those hideous modern bastardised cartoons of old stop motion children's TV shows - you know, like the new Postman Pat, Fireman Sam CGI cartoons they pump out onto children's TV channels now. Just look at the main character's face - how simple and smooth it is, like a toy.
 

Lambonius

Infamous Quests
Developer
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
53
For once, I almost completely agree with a Richard Cobbett review.
 

Copper

Savant
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
469
I guess John Walker's perfect adventure game is Dreamfall Chapters, since he's supposed to be working on them. (He also once said action-adventure games like Beyond Good or Evil were the logical future for adventure games, so whatever.)
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
5,894
In comparing NuKQ to Monkey Island, I think he does Monkey Island a great disservice. It was a very cleverly written game, even the first one.

NuKQ is just depressingly trite, trying too hard in their nerd references and lacking basic writing chops. The puns he complains about being weak are only one aspect of the shitty script in general. I think 70+ is way too lenient, even going by the text of the review itself.
 

Lambonius

Infamous Quests
Developer
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
53
The puns are supposed to be shitty though. They're clearly supposed to be groaner (grand)dad-jokes. In the context of the game, characters openly make fun of the terrible puns. I don't understand why so many reviewers seem to be taking the puns' badness at face value. I agree with most of the other negatives in the review, but the bad puns complaint is strange, given the in-game context.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
5,894
Or, the writers could just be covering up for the fact that they can't write clever puns for shit, hiding behind the grand-dad telling a story setup. So very meta.
 

Jackalope

Arcane
Joined
Mar 11, 2011
Messages
531
Location
inside a giant mech suit
I have a silly question...
Why are there no horses in this game? People are riding dogs and gerbils and carts are being pulled by goats. Is it supposed to be quirky? Or funny? Because it's not. It's just distracting. Did I miss something?
 

Lambonius

Infamous Quests
Developer
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
53
Well, to be completely fair, KQ6 had anthropomorphic dog guards and the game played that fact completely straight, with no explanation whatsoever. So this sort of thing is not entirely without precedent. In fact, I can't think of any KQ game that had an actual horse in it, aside from Nightmare, and the headless horseman in KQ7. I suppose you could count the unicorn from KQ4 maybe?
 

Lambonius

Infamous Quests
Developer
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
53
I think there was a horse in the town in KQ2.

There was no town in KQ2; you must be thinking of the fan-made remake.

There is a winged horse in the game, now that I think of it, though it is attached to one of the most notoriously absurd puzzles in the entire series. ;)
 

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