Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

HOMM 2 vs HOMM 3

Which do you prefer?


  • Total voters
    166

Orzie

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
108
Location
Russia
As a modder of both games I can provide you more specific info which can be interesting for those who consider H2 better than H3. And for those who don't too :)

1) H3 has a simplified flag color system. Only heroes possess animated multi-colored flags, while the rest are monochrome and static. On the contrary, H2 has all flags multi-colored and thus saturated, with the hero flags being animated as well.

2) H3 has a simplified object passability rules, which has become convenient only starting from In the Wake of Gods modification which allows to change the passability of every object to a custom one.

3) H3 has simplified object shadows with only 2 tones: Deep Shadow and Faint Shadow, while H2 has around 6-7 tones (didn't count precisely), which allows the objects to fit to the background much more neatly and softly. H2 shadows are much less aggressive.

4) H3 has simplified font shadows with only 2 tones: Font Color and Shadow Color. At the same time, H2 uses multi-colored font similar to Amiga IFF fonts, which contain every character as a picture in the game resources. This allows the H2 font fit to the beige background much more; H3 uses only grimdark backgrounds which don't conflict with the standard white font. With that said, H2 still supports the same yellow font coloring as H3. The only thing that H3 is superior at is that H3 contains 3 fonts for various uses instead of 2.

5) H3 has a simplified road/river system in the map editor. H2 allows to make diagonal roads and rivers, which enrich the maps nicely but require some additional skill. However, H3 roads and rivers exclude the possibility to mess up the map because its map editor is more casual and convenient in general.

6) H2 has a specific feature with the arbitrary standing animation of creatures in battle. Thus, Mutant Zombies have their flies moving constantly and Ghosts are levitating dynamically (Phoenixes and Genies have it with a palette shift technique which is present in H3 as well, not sure about Fire Elementals, but I think it's the same case). H3 does not have this feature implemented: its resources contain animations for all creatures, but there is no code responsible to make it moving. Expected to be implemented in Heroes of Might and Magic III: Horn of the Abyss.
RDBizwC.gif


7) Same with the negative luck: left unimplemented in H3 while it's present in H2. Already implemented in Heroes of Might and Magic III: Horn of the Abyss and expected in Heroes of Might and Magic III: The Succession Wars Mod.

8) Campaign award system of H2 is lost in H3, but H3 supports hero transfer instead. The award system can be restored by the means of WoG scripting.

9) Campaign alternate mission system which was also lost in H3. An ability to change loyalty from Roland to Archibald and vice versa included.

10) Dynamic castle looks on different terrains, a nice H2 feature, also lost in H3. Will be restored in Heroes of Might and Magic III: The Succession Wars Mod and VCMI engine.

11) Perhaps I missed something.


Anyways, that does not diminish the advantages of H3 over H2 which have been already named a thousand times.
 

Grimwulf

Arcane
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Oct 1, 2014
Messages
4,045
Location
Kodex Kommunistic Kastle
Here's a little taste

- no DD/Fly (you can''t use Dimention Door and Fly spells as well as Angel Wings artefact)

- no Scrolls Level 4 - 5 (you can''t use magic scrolls with spells Level 4 - 5)

- no Necro (you can''t select Necropolis as starting town, you can't use Necro skill (must dismiss all gained skeletons after each battle) and can't build new creature buildings in necro towns if you will find them)

- no Conflux (you can''t select Conflux as starting town, and can't build new creature buildings in flux towns if you will find them)

- no Diplo (you can''t take, level up Diplomacy skill and join monsters.)

- no Joiners (you can''t join wandering monsters even without Diplomacy skill)

- no Log spec (Kyrre, Gunnar, Dessa can't be starting hero and can't attack into final battle. Final battle happens were both heroes have >50% HP of their bought troops)

- no Grail (you can''t build Grail in towns)

- no Carto (you can''t visit Cartographer)

- no Hillfort (you can''t upgrade creatures in Hillfort)

- no Upgrades (you can''t upgrade creatures from Conservatories/Hives)

- maximum 1 level 7 dwell of each town type is allowed to flag on the whole map for one player.

- no Doublebuild (you can't build up 2 same towns. Not allowed to build only creature dwellings level3-7. Example: if player start with Dungeon and has 2 Strongholds then he is allowed to build 1 Stronghold and Dungeon)

- no Red Rush (Red player can''t attack Blue or flag blue's unguarded town on Day 1 of ANY week after Red has bought some NEW army (in any town or dwelling) or Red has hired new hero)

- no Hit & Run (Fleeing or surrendering from combat is not allowed for the first 3 rounds if you have done more damage to your opponent than he has done to you (HP). You are allowed to flee/surrender in any situation if that is the first action you take. Not allowed to use magic level 3+ by prison heroes level11 or higher.

*Examines closely* Yep. These players are russian.
 

Avellion

Erudite
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
756
Location
This forum
Heroes 2 has better presentation, Heroes 3 has better gameplay.

HoMM2 is much better looking. HoMM3 went for the "realistic" look, and just came out goofy.
Well, towns (except conflux) look much better in HOMM3.
The Conflux was rushed because fans reacted poorly to the steampunk-inpired Heanvenly Forge faction. That's why they reused the four elementals, brought back the sprites and phoenixes from HoMM1/2, and added the psychic/magic elementals without appropriately balancing the faction.
H3-ForgeTown.jpg

Holy shit is that screenshot for real? It looks really cool. Liking the insporation from Metropolis.

http://heroes3wog.net/vcmi-forge-town-v0-8/



tl/dgaf: They were soo out of place, and just looks ugly when put into the rest of the game.
 

Abelian

Somebody's Alt
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
2,289
Thank for the video and link. I wasn't aware that modders were working on implementing the Heavenly Forge faction. I see they changed the unit line-up though: removed tier 3 unit Cyber-Dead/Cyber-Zombie, removed tier 6 unit Naga Tank, added 1 units Guard, added tier 4 unit Sky Fighters, and shifted Grunt from tier 1 to 2, Stinger from 4 to 5 and Jump Soldier from 5 to 6.
 

Orzie

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
108
Location
Russia
Well, H2 vs. H3 gameplay is a no less subjective point. I play H2 for 15 years and replay it every 1-2 years, while my H3 stats are not that optimistic.

Concerning the Forge, none of the existing Forges are brought to a complete stage, unfortunately. I pray on the polish team who has bloodsuckers in the lineup.

Meanwhile I make my own Forge with blackjack and you know what I mean. MM3 fans are welcome.
Attention: wip gfx, watch at your own risk. It fits the topic though.
vOw125P.png

VMbLVji.png

TiOclFj.png
 
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
3,438
Location
Lost Hills bunker
What good mods are in development for Heroes 2/3? Are guys that made Horn of the Abyss making anything? What about The Succession Wars Mod? How long till it's finished and what are your plans? Orzie
 

Orzie

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
108
Location
Russia
Horn of the Abyss is currently v1.3.5 and is 100% playable, also being 100% compatible with the HD Mod (not to be confused with Ubi H3HD). HotA team is constantly polishing their fan-made addon, and plans for the far future may still include new factions and related campaigns.

The Succession Wars Mod (currently Heroes of Might and Magic 3: The Succession Wars) is going to be released as v0.8 beta this year. It drastically differs from the previous 2013 beta in all aspects.

As of Heroes 2, there is Project Ironfist, a massive mod which allows scripting (like WoG but the language is Lua) and an omnipotent ability to edit Heroes 2. I personally started participating in that project too in terms of creation of a 7th faction.
g3837wj.png

Yo4s3iy.png


Also, there is a small graphic mod I made for Heroes 2, Christmas-themed. We tried to launch an offline tournament featuring it, but the worldwide community has proven to be fully atomized and unwilling to play Heroes 2 once more.
ny_mod.gif
 
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
3,438
Location
Lost Hills bunker
Too bad, as both Heroes 2 and 3 are awesome games, and I like playing them both. I even like Heroes 1, although it's a bit lacking in terms of factions and creatures IMO (only 4 factions) but it's graphics are charming, especially battle ones. Might and Magic setting is awesome, while Ashan not so much...

I hope you finish all your mods and they do not become vaporware as they seem awesome!
 

Orzie

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
108
Location
Russia
The mods have rather good chances, we'll see how the things will go. Some far future plans may not be brought to life though.
 

Orzie

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
108
Location
Russia
Yes, I was mistaken partially.

However, there is one more point we found recently: Heroes 3 has a bug in the code which forced them to implement only backwards palette color cycling everywhere. We had to write a binary patch to make rivers and oceans cycling properly in H3SW.

Fun is, that in H2 the palette cycled only forwards.
 
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Messages
891
Location
Canuckistan
My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
I'm pitching in a vote for HoMM2, note just because it has more character in its presentation, but it manages to make all the factions interesting and different much more than HoMM3 which seems to be an early follower of the trend of "balance to the point of pure symmetry" that a lot of strategy games went for. Not that I don't mind symmetrical strategy games (I love chess) and maybe it's more that I approached HoMM2 as a single player game. It's just if I'm tackling the computer and not another human I like games that are not necessarily fair to me, and love having a little more flash and wow factor that comes from stuff like saving up to build Black Dragons. Note this applies to RPGs as well, and even D&D with it's MMOified 4th edition.
 

zwanzig_zwoelf

Guest
Heroes 2 looks too cartoony for my taste, but the music is badass.
Still prefer 3 over 2 though.
 

Orzie

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
108
Location
Russia
For everyone concerned, Heroes of Might and Magic III: The Succession Wars project has just moved its official forums to http://heroes2.forumactif.com. This community intends to group the old-school homm fans and collect all related projects there. Feel free to stop by and leave a comment.

An international support is also planned - perhaps the modding developments going on there may also feature some multi-language support.
 
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
3,438
Location
Lost Hills bunker
For everyone concerned, Heroes of Might and Magic III: The Succession Wars project has just moved its official forums to http://heroes2.forumactif.com. This community intends to group the old-school homm fans and collect all related projects there. Feel free to stop by and leave a comment.

An international support is also planned - perhaps the modding developments going on there may also feature some multi-language support.

Very nice! I must say your mod looks great, can't wait for it to be finished. Also the towns you make seem great and in line with the lore. Keep up the good work!
 

Orzie

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
108
Location
Russia
A lot more info is to be added on that forum with time, so please give us a visit sometime :)
The new factions developed are not only planned to fit the lore, but also will serve a great purpose of unifying the NWC games, like H2, H3 and even Might and Magic VI.
 
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
3,438
Location
Lost Hills bunker
Sounds great, so far honestly seems better than Horn of the Abyss (which is a great expansion btw.) and a much larger project. Just hope it won't turn to vaporware as many great projects do. Russian modders rule! And of course, M&M and HOMM Enroth games! I guess I'll have to register. ;)
 

Naraya

Arcane
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Messages
1,513
Location
Tuono-Tabr
I registered on the forum and received an activation email, with my password in clear text :roll:
 

Orzie

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
108
Location
Russia
Sounds great, so far honestly seems better than Horn of the Abyss (which is a great expansion btw.) and a much larger project. Just hope it won't turn to vaporware as many great projects do. Russian modders rule! And of course, M&M and HOMM Enroth games! I guess I'll have to register. ;)
Well, HotA is also an awesome project, and we received a lot of help from its members. Besides, yesterday we also moved the official Project Ironfist forum to us, which is the only one massive Heroes 2 modification project.
Vapourware is a scourge for all projects like ours, but at least we are releasing v0.8 beta already in 2015 :)


I registered on the forum and received an activation email, with my password in clear text :roll:
Not all sites can be just as awesome as the Codex. :P
 

MicoSelva

backlog digger
Patron
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
7,480
Location
Vigil's Keep
Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Divinity: Original Sin 2 Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
I wonder, what houserules do people use when playing 'competitively'? No town portal, no conflux, no logistics? 'cause the game is anything but balanced.

Here's a little taste

- no DD/Fly (you can''t use Dimention Door and Fly spells as well as Angel Wings artefact)

- no Scrolls Level 4 - 5 (you can''t use magic scrolls with spells Level 4 - 5)

- no Necro (you can''t select Necropolis as starting town, you can't use Necro skill (must dismiss all gained skeletons after each battle) and can't build new creature buildings in necro towns if you will find them)

- no Conflux (you can''t select Conflux as starting town, and can't build new creature buildings in flux towns if you will find them)

- no Diplo (you can''t take, level up Diplomacy skill and join monsters.)

- no Joiners (you can''t join wandering monsters even without Diplomacy skill)

- no Log spec (Kyrre, Gunnar, Dessa can't be starting hero and can't attack into final battle. Final battle happens were both heroes have >50% HP of their bought troops)

- no Grail (you can''t build Grail in towns)

- no Carto (you can''t visit Cartographer)

- no Hillfort (you can''t upgrade creatures in Hillfort)

- no Upgrades (you can''t upgrade creatures from Conservatories/Hives)

- maximum 1 level 7 dwell of each town type is allowed to flag on the whole map for one player.

- no Doublebuild (you can't build up 2 same towns. Not allowed to build only creature dwellings level3-7. Example: if player start with Dungeon and has 2 Strongholds then he is allowed to build 1 Stronghold and Dungeon)

- no Red Rush (Red player can''t attack Blue or flag blue's unguarded town on Day 1 of ANY week after Red has bought some NEW army (in any town or dwelling) or Red has hired new hero)

- no Hit & Run (Fleeing or surrendering from combat is not allowed for the first 3 rounds if you have done more damage to your opponent than he has done to you (HP). You are allowed to flee/surrender in any situation if that is the first action you take. Not allowed to use magic level 3+ by prison heroes level11 or higher.
These rules look like designed by Josh Sawyer.

NoFunAllowed.png


:whatisfun:
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,520
These rules are for "serious" multi games, but some house rules do make sense even in "casual" games. Conflux is op as fuck if you play against people of similar/lower skill and town portal will make you unbeatable in a hot seat game unless you are severely retarded.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom