PAX South panel discussion/live chat thread (12:30 CST, 19:30 CET)

[Sensuki]

Neither did I, until I took the initiative to look elsewhere. I've posted multiple times on the Obs forums that if they want to stay in the loop, they can come here and read the PE thread. Many just say "no thanks, I won't read the RPGCodex, what a cesspit"

Their loss.

 

[Infinitron]

Neither did I, until I took the initiative to look elsewhere. I've posted multiple times on the Obs forums that if they want to stay in the loop, they can come here and read the PE thread. Many just say "no thanks, I won't read the RPGCodex, what a cesspit"

Their loss.

The funny thing to me is that very often it's people who could be described as "troll posters" who say that. There's a certain type of "edgy"/"snarky" poster who can't abide the presence of other edgy people. They prefer to be the lone edgy voice on a forum full of "normal" people.

Like, take that Gromnir guy, for instance. The guy's basically a Codexian character running an act ("HA! Good fun!"). But he doesn't want to be a mere part of a large cast of oddballs and misfits like us, he wants to be the STAR OF THE SHOW. It's just lame.

 

[Sensuki]

Wow this thread is on fire now - check this post out from one of the female animators (it might be Stephanie Dowling, I'm not sure): http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70150-pax-south-2015-live-thread/#entry1562234

 

[Infinitron]

I can confirm what Matt said... a lot of devs read the forums. I can typically bring up a thread and someone's read it and can discuss it with me. I typically browse during a break or on my own free time, like now when I can't sleep. Especially after something happens, like we post an update or do a panel, I'm interested to see what people are saying. I sure wasn't expecting how this thread evolved.

I used to be excited about the idea of interacting with the fans. Even if there's not a lot I can say, because it's very political being a dev with NDAs and all, I thought at least I could discuss things about our games, or games in general, with people who are just as excited about them. After browsing the forums, I don't get the impression that's what people want. As a female dev especially, I find what's going on in the off topic section, with all the threads of photos of women and threads degrading feminists, insulting at best and frightening at worst.

I obviously can't and don't speak for anyone else at Obsidian. But I can say for myself that I don't find this a welcoming environment. Personally I could never imagine talking about or treating the people I admire in the games or entertainment industry the way many people on here speak of Obsidian devs and our games.

The reason they don't post here is because they're elitist and think people here are beneath them, it's not really that surprising that a group of SoCal, TED generation technocrats feel no solidarity with normal people, working in an industry with no unionisation to speak of and where you're far more likely to see Atlas shrugged in peoples back pockets than Das Kapital.

They don't want to interact with the fans because they don't like you and they don't like you because there's still a fan fiction thread that hasn't been laughed off the front page after 5 days and a 6th (?) iteration of a romance thread. They wish you weren't a bunch of unreconstructed men between 18 - 40 who will discuss ad infinitum the merits of video game romances without irony, have adventure time avatars and be so common.

They would rather post on forums that mock that sort of thing and until recently I would have agreed but elitism is a scourge and ultimately an anathema to the ideas of solidarity and communicating shared experience so quit self-flaggelating about why they don't post here.

@NegativeEdge Cool analysis. Wrong, but cool.

Politically at least Josh is way left of center (although, sadly, probably not an actual Communist), and I haven't gotten much of a whiff of Objectivist lunacy from any of the others either.

I still stand by my theory: they don't hang out here because they'd rather hang out with people who aren't colossal jerks.

Nothing NegativeEdge said has anything to do with Josh's purported politics. That kind of "elitism" (which I would use extremely loosely in this context, because actual elitism isn't bad, but what is generally thought of as elitist behaviour is absolutely devastating) is incredibly common in the (particular western) "intellectual" (read: academic) left-wing.

It's not particularly consistent with the supposed ideal, but marxism is nothing if not hypocritical in execution.

Holy fucking shit.

 

[Starwars]

Release the GamerGate hounds.

 

[SniperHF]

That negativeedge guy is a moron. This also reminds me why I don't go to their forums either

 

[Infinitron]

That negativeedge guy is a moron.

A moron about what? The forums being full of degenerates, or about how the Obsidian devs should hold their noses and interact with the degenerates anyway for the sake of populism?

 

[SniperHF]

The political shit.

 

[Infinitron]

HAHAHAHAHA that Luckmann guy posted a Varg Vikernes gif at the developer girl.

First, if the female photo-threads irk you, as a developer at Obsidian, I'd think you'd ask for their removal. It is certainly not a staple of the industry to have such threads on the official forum(s). When I saw the current ongoing thread, I was actual a fair bit "Oooooh.. kay...?" myself - not that I'm bothered by it, I just thought it was weird, and I wouldn't be bothered by a male version either - although I'd still think it was weird. And while I can see how you'd think they're weird too, I don't see why you'd be bothered by it. But if you are, and you have a solid argument for it, change the board rules.

As for degrading feminists; it's not degrading feminists, it's feminists degrading themselves. In any forum where you allow the discussion of political topics, there are going to be leanings you don't appreciate. There is no reason you'd consider that frightening, although if you associate yourself with the people criticism is levied against, I can see how you'd feel insulted. But feeling insulted in that way is probably the first step to questioning your stance; people don't tend to be insulted by facts unless there's some cognitive dissonance going on.

And finally, the Off-Topic or General Forum parts of a forum isn't really relevant for the exchange of ideas relating to specific projects, so well there's that.

 

[Roguey]

Wow this thread is on fire now - check this post out from one of the female animators (it might be Stephanie Dowling, I'm not sure): http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70150-pax-south-2015-live-thread/#entry1562234

It's Krystina Haggerty.

The fact that she's a huge South Park fan makes it funnier to me.

 

[Sensuki]

Might be a bandwagon/company culture thing.

 

[Roguey]

Obsidian's company culture includes casual rape jokes at work.

At least it did circa the mid-late 00s.

 

[Hormalakh]

well that thread did it. i think i'm finally done with obsidian forums.

what a bunch of goons.

I came to talk about games not politics.

 

[Ellef]

Jesus christ that thread is a riot. That communismfag that always pops up with political philosophy 101 in every place, feminist developer saying the internet doesn't accommodate her feelings enough to interact with fans.

 

[Hormalakh]

"fans" - people who shit on you but expect that you still talk to them.

New Oxford definition?

 

[polo]

Nothing annoys me more when people preface their question with a minute of ass kissing and congratulations, god damn this stream audience is annoying.

Oh yes. I think MCA even mocked it subtly at some point.

Oh he did, and he did it well.
Something like "NO, THANK YOU *points at the guy who was ass kissing*". It was good.

 

[Spockrock]

Like, take that Gromnir guy, for instance.

hands off! Gromnir is a national treasure

 

[aeonsim]

Like, take that Gromnir guy, for instance.

hands off! Gromnir is a national treasure

Exactly!
People should only complain about Gromnir once they have a character named after them in a well known RPG.

 

[aeonsim]

Jesus christ that thread is a riot. That communismfag that always pops up with political philosophy 101 in every place, feminist developer saying the internet doesn't accommodate her feelings enough to interact with fans.

Why the fuck should she interact with the two brain cell idiots who think the devs should be Kowtowing to them in awe because they may just buy the game at some point? It takes a certain type of character to enjoy having shit thrown at them all day and then enjoy throwing it back, they may accumulate in forums but there should be no expectation for someone who's paid to work on a game to enjoy it or participate. It'd be nice to see the devs comment a bit more in the official forums, but considering the "quality" of the threads and some of the people commenting I think nukes from orbit may be needed to clean it up and clean up some parts of the "community".

 

[Bester]

I used to think obs forum was full of "normal people" aka retards, and Obs didn't want to post there because all they'd get in response would be "AMAZING, KEEP UP THE GOOD JOB" instead of anything remotely interesting.

But then Krystina Haggerty literally blew me away with her retarded feminazi shit. Now MEN ARE RESPONSIBLE for her not interacting with the fans. What a load of racist bullshit.

 

[hiver]

Man and women. Different races... ffs...

Its not Men, dont put me and the rest of Men in any category even close to you. Its the stupid retards. Like you.

 

[Roguey]

I love how that thread ended with PrimeJunta ragequitting and even deleting his avatar.

 

[Maculo]

I noticed that too, but I am not sure whether that means PrimeJunta has ragequit the entire forum though.

Overall, that thread was ridiculous and it did not help anyone's cause. I am not even sure why I once used the Obsidian forums beyond the PoE backer beta.

 

[dukeofwhales]

But then Stephanie Dowling literally blew me away with her retarded feminazi shit. Now MEN ARE RESPONSIBLE for her not interacting with the fans. What a load of racist bullshit.

If there's no job requirement to interact on the forums and the content of the forums makes her uncomfortable, I can't see any reason why she'd be inclined to visit and interact. That is a solid persecution complex you have.

 

[Bester]

If there's no job requirement to interact on the forums and the content of the forums makes her uncomfortable, I can't see any reason why she'd be inclined to visit and interact.

Exactly. And yet she did come and did interact - the most toxic way possible. There are two types of feminism - one is defensive: calls to stop all hatred, etc, which is ok. And the other type is the american bigoted feminazism - it consists of blaming the man in all cases and really make huge efforts not to understand the other gender. Oh shit, they're posting nude pictures of chicks, shit this is beyond human understanding. When women post kittens and children I don't start calling them mental retards, I understand it's their interests. But feminazis don't want to understand anything, they want to blame, annoy and offend... they're walking pieces of shit.