Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Invictus]

How about a bet guys? That way you get some much needed kred in between your wild orgies with super models.
Not only will Grimoire release before PoS...Oops PoE but it will be a better RPG too.
Since after the 4 bugs are crushed Mr Blakemore will do one last crowdfunder for testing for balancíng issues (P Sawyer would be proud) that means the game will be released after, so how about it? Whatever shall we make a bet on?
How about this I will bet my shinny Collector Edition of PoE that Grimoire is released first so name your own bet and dont let the anonimity of the Internet srink your balls
This game will NOT deliver on their promise; it will look very nice, have an interesting story, cool NPCS and SHITY AS FUCK MUTHERFUCKING COMBAT
Rant mode off

 

[Rake]

That way you get some much needed kred in between your wild orgies with super models.
Not only will Grimoire release before PoS...Oops PoE but it will be a better RPG too.
Since after the 4 bugs are crushed Mr Blakemore will do one last crowdfunder for testing for balancíng issues (P Sawyer would be proud) that means the game will be released after, so how about it? Whatever shall we make a bet on?
How about this I will bet my shinny Collector Edition of PoE that Grimoire is released first so name your own bet and dont let the anonimity of the Internet srink your balls
This game will NOT deliver on their promise; it will look very nice, have an interesting story, cool NPCS and SHITY AS FUCK MUTHERFUCKING COMBAT

The second sentence refutes the first. As for the Grimoire released first part, i stoped reading on released...

 

[Sensuki]

Invictus vs Frusciante

FIGHT!

 

[Ninjerk]

Invictus vs Frusciante

FIGHT!

I want to see Invictus take on that new guy that writes gibberish.

 

[Darkion]

Invictus vs Frusciante

FIGHT!

I want to see Invictus take on that new guy that writes gibberish.

But... But... there are so many under that description!

Spoiler

I know who you mean. :D

 

[Ninjerk]

Everyone does

 

[Duraframe300]

Sawyer says

The relative values of Might and Accuracy are largely dependent on the content you're dealing with. Remember that Accuracy targets all defenses and that the Backer Beta shows a segment of content in a vacuum. If you are regularly attacking into defenses that exceed your Accuracy, then yes, you need every point of Accuracy you can get. You have three primary avenues of dealing with a defense that exceeds Accuracy: increase your own Accuracy, decrease the target defense (many afflictions do this), or switch the defense you are targeting (easiest for casters). IME, it is not too hard to get an Accuracy vs. defense advantage. Might also has to be understood in the context of Damage Threshold and Damage Reduction. DR values tend to be very low, but DT can easily swallow up the lion's share of damage output. You can make Crits more frequent by increasing Accuracy if you already have an advantage, but if you've dumped Might, you're trying for Crits just to get your damage output high enough to deal with moderate to high DT.

In the absence of content (i.e., specific scenarios), Might and Accuracy cannot be objectively compared. The point of our system has never been to achieve perfect balance. I've stated this so many times I don't think I could go back and count them all. The point has always been to make a player feel that if they build an Attribute array in a certain way for their character, they can get something good out of it. I don't think the vast, vast majority of players care at all if, in the final tally, a point of Might gives them a 6.5% greater damage output when compared to all attacks at target level creature throughout the game vs. a point of Perception -- or vice-versa. But again, that final tally for Might vs. Perception largely depends on what content you're doing, with what characters/equipment, and how you choose to deal with various Accuracy vs. defense or damage vs. DT shortfalls.

 

[Copper]

So in other words, you can be screwed by the numbers whatever you do, and an average array is the optimal choice because you can't predict the designer, and the designer can't adapt content on the fly to your build.

 

[Grunker]

I don't think it's like either of them really. It's more like NWN2.

FFS Sensuki, give it a rest.

With respect, why?

You know I agree with you that Sensuki likes to see himself post a little too much, not too mention his insistance is getting Roguey-levels of "dude, chill", but if he compares the combat to NWN2 over the IE-games, don't dismiss the statement unless you have a point.

Personally, I think Sensuki is being way, waaaaaaay too categoric in his statements on this game. I don't think the combat is more like NWN2, but it is a mix of that and the IE-games currently, in a bad way. Before this BETA came out, I would have never guessed things would go the way of fucking NWN2. Between the developers giving reassurances to the contrary ("yeah, we know NWN2 combat is bad example, it's what we'll struggle to avoid") and giving nods to what it would feel like ("this'll be like the IE-games but Sawyerized"), of course the minimum expectation was an IE-baseline but with all the rules jumpled and modernized/Sawyerized.

However in your hands the combat currently has some NWN2 to it, definetely. That is cause for grave concern, no way around it.

EDIT: By the way Sensuki, there's a great episode of The Simpsons where Lisa starts her own newspaper, and when Mr. Burns buys it she starts an all-out war with him. When they finally settle matters there is a bit of an awkward silence in Mr Burns' office during a long pause while they wait for Lisa to be picked up by Marge. So Burns strikes up some idle conversation while they wait:

Burns: So, what do you think of today’s popular music scene?

Lisa: I think it distracts people from more important social issues.

Burns: My god, are you always on!?

It would have done me some good to watch and think about that episode for a moment when I was 18 and didn't talk about anything but politics. Maybe it'd do you some good to do so now

 

[Sensuki]

IMO it feels more like NWN2+DA:O combat with high lethality in an IE (IWD2) shell, YMMV of course.

Quite a few people are getting pretty cut over a disagreement over one issue, lol.

 

[Infinitron]

http://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/103409261666/do-poe-players-stick-to-the-same-party-for-a-whole

ilitarist asked: Do PoE players stick to the same party for a whole game? Do you want players to use the same characters?

During our internal play week, people swapped out their party members as their party size grew. Some people made adventurers to round out the party or if they didn’t like certain companions.

I would like people to take whatever characters they want with them. If they want to stick to one set of characters, that’s fine. Also fine: swapping characters out as they see fit, using a mix of adventurers and companions, using only adventurers or only companions, or trying to play the game solo (though it’s not balanced around that).

With respect, why?

FFS Grunker, give it a rest.

 

[aeonsim]

I don't think it's like either of them really. It's more like NWN2.

FFS Sensuki, give it a rest.

With respect, why?

You know I agree with you that Sensuki likes to see himself post a little too much, not too mention his insistance is getting Roguey-levels of "dude, chill", but if he compares the combat to NWN2 over the IE-games, don't dismiss the statement unless you have a point.
...

So I pretty much agree with the give it a rest comment. From my pov Sensuki has had some good points in his posts, and some I completely disagree with or think are a waste of time, but it's reached the point where his posts are becoming background noise. Visit a forum to catch up with what's being discussed about PoE and it's like every third post is by Sensuki, it's so constant and the overall tone of 'nearly everything is wrong' means that his posts are just starting to get ignored as though they background noise, I don't even notice skipping them as I read through a thread or forum.

I suspect that may begining to happen to others including potentially the devs. Constant high volume is counter productive after a while, and it becomes better to deliver a post every few days or weeks so they have bigger impact when they arrive than constantly spam them out no matter how potentially relevant the content.

 

[Grunker]

From my pov Sensuki has had some good points in his posts, and some I completely disagree with or think are a waste of time, but it's reached the point where his posts are becoming background noise.

I agree:

By the way Sensuki, there's a great episode of The Simpsons where Lisa starts her own newspaper, and when Mr. Burns buys it she starts an all-out war with him. When they finally settle matters there is a bit of an awkward silence in Mr Burns' office during a long pause while they wait for Lisa to be picked up by Marge. So Burns strikes up some idle conversation while they wait:

Burns: So, what do you think of today’s popular music scene?

Lisa: I think it distracts people from more important social issues.

Burns: My god, are you always on!?

It would have done me some good to watch and think about that episode for a moment when I was 18 and didn't talk about anything but politics. Maybe it'd do you some good to do so now

I just don't get why the 'tron keeps quoting his arguments and telling him that. It hasn't worked thus far.

 

[Sensuki]

You're funny aeonism. I haven't been among the top posters on this forum or the Obsidian forums for over a week

Let me ask you, what do you think about Engagement?

btw looks like Lore has been changed

It's pretty difficult to balance skill options in a class- and party-based game (as evidenced by how much D&D's various editions and their knock-offs struggle with it). For personal benefits, skills either need to feed into existing systems (which can make balancing difficult) or they need to have a special function within a niche. The latter is how the skills work currently. Athletics interacts with Fatigue, Lore (now) interacts with scrolls, Survival interacts with consumables, and Stealth and Mechanics have their own subsystems. Athletics is the only one that exists to offset a penalty. I need to think about it some more, but it's definitely the odd one in the current lineup.

Crafting and enchantment are much, much cheaper now. Some of the recipes had their cp cost reduced by 90%. The stronghold upgrades are still huge money sinks but no one seemed to mind in our internal test.

We've thought and talked about higher levels. The system is set up for a standardized progression. I assume we'll have to tweak aspects of it, but it's meant to scale into future games.

New patch comes out tomorrow anyway guys, so thankfully that will stop your fucking whinging and other people will start posting again.

 

[aeonsim]

You're funny aeonism. I haven't been among the top posters on this forum or the Obsidian forums for over a week

Let me ask you, what do you think about Engagement?

btw looks like Lore has been changed
...

God some one beat you in post counts for a week?! You sick ?

As for engagement to early to decide yet combat still isn't clear enough to get a good feel for how it's impacting things. I like the concept of there being a consequence if a char or NPC tries to turn away and disengage from a close combat specialist. But at the same time there should be room for tactical movement. Really I think we need another month or two of bug fixes, cleaning up the combat log and and combat information display. At that point it should be possible to test it properly and see what the impact is. Also I think alot of the problems around that discussion are due to the enemy combat AI sucking at the moment, fix that and we'd be able to see much more clearly how important/useful and good/bad the combat systems are.

The lore change, depending exactly on how it's implemented it could be anything from meh to decent, at least it sounds like has a direct role now. With regards to Athletics JS's got a good point it's now a little odd maybe they should switch it so higher athletics gives you a small bonus that decays over time or add a decay rate to the inn resting bonuses that's affected by athletics.

 

[Sensuki]

Not a bad suggestion (on Athletics). I'm not a fan of the fatigue mechanics really, and while the Lore change may be 'meh', it's better than what it used to be (which was almost never worth investing in).

I have been the person who has posted the most about this game on the RPGCodex and the OE boards for quite a long time, at least 18 months. It's probably more noticeable at the end of a patch cycle when almost no one is active. Before the beta, no one really seemed to give a shit. I'm not gonna stop posting just because everyone else is, whether that makes you skim over my posts is your choice.

 

[Abu Antar]

Athletics could be used for many things. Improved attack speed or improved movement speed in combat. More deflection (your character is better at evading.

 

[Seari]

Why are you guys giving Sensuki shit? I sure as hell know who I'll thank if this game comes even close to being playable.

Are magical items identifiable with lore or are all items already identified?

 

[Ninjerk]

I feel like I wouldn't know anything about PoE if Sensuki wasn't sperging over it, and I'm glad there's someone with the time and the will to tell developers when they're doing something that doesn't make sense and delivers it in a concise manner.

 

[Sensuki]

Already identified

 

[Infinitron]

http://steamcommunity.com/games/291650/announcements/detail/204115362624205025

Pre Order items revealed!

Space Piglet: Traverse the enchanting plains of Eora with a glow in the dark companion.

Pledge of Gaun Ring: This item gives the ability to shield yourself from the perils that roam the world of Eora. A mystical ring with interlocking sickles that brings life where death looms. Gaun's favored implement, symbolic of the cycle of the harvest he oversees. Like its namesake, it is known to provide powerful support to those in need of defense.

I guess the Minsc reference was inevitable.

 

[Grunker]

http://steamcommunity.com/games/291650/announcements/detail/204115362624205025

Pre Order items revealed!

Space Piglet: Traverse the enchanting plains of Eora with a glow in the dark companion.

Pledge of Gaun Ring: This item gives the ability to shield yourself from the perils that roam the world of Eora. A mystical ring with interlocking sickles that brings life where death looms. Gaun's favored implement, symbolic of the cycle of the harvest he oversees. Like its namesake, it is known to provide powerful support to those in need of defense.

I guess the Minsc reference was inevitable.

I doubt we've seen the last of them.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

That joke was weak enough the first time.

 

[Athelas]

Why are they ripping off Bioware's masterfully written companions?

 

[Infinitron]

Sawyer probably hates having to do this, haha.