Things that will never work out but devs are pushing them still.

[taxalot]

Things that will never work out but devs are pushing them still.

Choice and consequences.

 

[Perkel]

yeah but when you have a gun that works only in malee distance then obviously something is wrong.

But i guess concept of DT is something devs struggle to understand.

 

[Tehdagah]

Stealth. Always sucks.

 

[Baron Dupek]

Something else - what about thing that give you fun but shouldn't?
For me it's ragdoll system. Just like cover system - first game that introduced it (UT2k3 in case of ragdoll and kill.switch in case of cover system) were good and later titles fuck thing hard.
You know something is wrong when watching wacky ragdoll doing strange things is more fun than playing game itself (i.e. shooting/chopping/blasting stuff in corridor levels).

THe Dark Mod and Thief3 Derply Shat Downs - is good example, considering the fact that you can carry bodies anywhere.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Real time combat in RPG's.

 

[Lemming42]

Stealth. Always sucks.

It always sucks mechanically but it can be used effectively anyway if the devs know what they're doing.

Granted, the list of games that use it effectively is about 4 games long, with two of those games being Thief and Thief 2.

 

[TheGreatOne]

Real time combat in RPG's.

It's amazing to think that Western RPG developers were content with having shit/mediocre gameplay in RPGs for almost 2 decades (mid 90s-2012-2013), barring few TB exceptions and even RTwP games like BG2. Not that japs were more successful in implementing real time combat systems, they just kept their games TB (though only few had truly good battle systems). I can't actually think of any real time RPGs outside of Demon/Dark Souls that's deep and challenging enough to not be popamole and that is simultaneously fun to play&well programmed. Diablo clones and hack n slashes are mostly brainless button smashing and all FPSRPGs have clunky, poor gunplay compared to actual FPS games.

 

[Machocruz]

. Not that japs were more successful in implementing real time combat systems,

Yet they were afaic, by not letting the RPG have too much influence on the arcade aspect. so that even today in games like Dark Souls you can rely on twitch skill to beat them at low levels. There are exceptions. I think you are fucked if you don't level up in the Seiken Densetsu games, as some enemy attacks are hitscan or whatever such concept is relevant to 2D games. Compare to Diablo or Elder Scrolls, where you're basically just pressing buttons while your stats do most of the real work. You can kind of evade attacks in those games, but it's not a refined mechanic, and you will still take damage at some point no matter what you do. Whereas in many Jap ARPGs you can do no damage runs. I've been working on a no-hit run of Shadow Tower Abyss. Control wise it has similar limitations to ES games, but the enemies operate according to the action game model of attack windows, recovery, and interrupts.

All of that isn't to say I'd recommend Faxanadu over Morrowind.

I don't see the problem with real time combat in single character RPGs. Outside of roguelikes (in which you don't wait for turns), I can't think of a single character game with TB combat that didn't make me think it was a dumb decision.

 

[TheGreatOne]

That stat influence vs skills dichotomy is the big paradox of action RPGs, not that most people who aren't grognards give a shit. But I would credit the fact that you can kill things naked, level 1 etc in Dark Souls as a strength of the game and showcase of how well it is designed, even if it looses some of its RPG purity in the process. Though if the alternative is F3/NV, VTMB or Elder Scrolls combat, RPG purity can go fuck it self for all I care. If you're gonna go the action route, do it properly or just stay TB.

Yeah, TB tends to be boring in single character games. The question is why did CRPGs (counting AAA multiplatform garbage as CRPGs here) stopped having party creation? Story faggotry. Combining narrative driven, C&C heavy games where you can solve problems in various different ways with engaging core gameplay (deep character&party customization and combat) are almost mutually exclusive design paths. Deus Ex/VTMB style gameplay where non combat characters are equally viable is a much harder (if not impossible) thing to balance in a setting where you have 4-8 characters to spec rather than one, and naturally you won't see as well designed&challenging encounters and bosses in a game like that when comparied to a dungeon crawler or a tactical RPG. There are also other problems with balancing, like dedicating one character to do all the speaking. The problem with party creation is that it prevents writers from doing stories where the player's party is central to the storyline (+giving different characters deep personalities). Of course there's the Fallout/Arcanum/Ultima middle ground between Wizardry&Goldbox and Planescape&Mass Effect, but so far games like that have a bad track record of doing the gameplay right.

 

[Fowyr]

Why not add a bayonet? The axe blade will just make the gun tip-heavy and thus, unwieldy. Also, using the gun as an axe handle is going to break it pretty quickly.

Oh right Rule of Cool nevermind

I don't fucking understand how few small led bullets are missing more than one copper bullet usually at the same distance. Reason why people hunt ducks with shotguns is that they are more accurate at a distance than for example m16 due to spread of led bullets.

Imagine killing duck on 50 meters. Even if you are very good shooter and use full choke shotgun, there are only several shots that hitted the duck. For example, 200 shots at 50 meters will spread as approximately 140 shot in 75 cm circle. Now compare it to size of the duck. Of course, human is bigger but don't forget that ALL weapons in games have decreased range and damage. Thus dozen or so birdshots should deal negligible damage. Buckshot should be deadly, but very inaccurate on distance because of the spread. (How many shots in #4 buckshot? 24 or something?)
Still, shotgun should be amazingly effective on pistol distances.

 

[Destroid]

The shotgun in Natural Selection 2 is very powerful, indeed it is the best thing for killing aliens except for the mechsuits with miniguns and railguns.

 

[Sartorius]

Sometimes i wonder if RPGcodex is full of retards or full of trolls or trolls that are retards.
One case of good implementation doesn't mean jack shit when 99,8% rest of games take those features and make them shit.

Things that will never work out but devs are pushing them still.

I think you are the retarded here.

One case of good implementation does mean that the feature works. When 99,8% of the games make that feature worse is the incompetence of the developers, not the feature. That´s why i think your first example was good because motion controls will never work.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Rolling dice for character creation. Just make it fucking stop oh god

edit: oh and the Borderlands PreSequel reminded me - finishing the game before being able to select higher difficulty modes. The intent is to give you a reason to keep playing, but making the first impression of your game boring for many people ON PURPOSE must be one of the stupidest ideas ever.

 

[Night Goat]

Are devs still pushing that? I haven't played a game with that since Baldur's Gate 2.

 

[deuxhero]

The GBA Eye of the Beholder, which is a VERY weird game (3.0 rules with its bullshit skills, having to push diagonals on the control bad to move on a tilted grid, rolling for status) and over a decade old now.

Temple of Elemental Evil allowed it optionally (though you were given a horribly low point buy and the roll method was very generous so there was no reason not to roll), but it's also over a decade old.

 

[Gerrard]

Speaking of, miniguns.

In almost every game miniguns deal 5-10% of the damage of an assault rifle and/or spray fucking everywhere.
Serious Sam is one of the few exceptions where the minigun works as it should.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Stealth. Always sucks.

Alien: Isolation.

 

[Murk]

Cover systems. The only good use of a cover system I've ever seen is in Red Orchestra 2. 99% of cover systems seem to exist just to look cool so you can watch your character roll around dodging bullets like he's hot shit. I preferred it back when taking cover involved pressing crouch or standing behind a wall.

This was something Allied Assault had down pat. In multiplayer, you had two buttons that let you lean left and lean right. Why the fuck they turned it into a context based action I have no clue, cuz back then it worked juuuust fine.

 

[A user named cat]

Has food been mentioned? If not then yeah, FOOD. While not something many devs shove down our pants, mostly every game has always fucked this up and implemented it in the laziest way possible. When a game forces a nourishment mechanic and all it requires is either clicking on a bread icon repeatedly until a popup says, "I'm full" or buying hordes of apples before heading out of town which are devoured automatically, then fuck off. Why bother? What does this add to the game? A sense of mundane danger?

Honorable mention: ALCHEMY -- Rarely ever done well, especially when you end up filthy rich in so many games and can either loot or puchase the same damn potions you're supposed to be interested in brewing. Plus most games which feature this mechanic also allow to you learn magic spells of some sort, usually nullifying the usage of most potions anyway. WHY BOTHER

 

[Lemming42]

Has food been mentioned? If not then yeah, FOOD. While not something many devs shove down our pants, mostly every game has always fucked this up and implemented it in the laziest way possible. When a game forces a nourishment mechanic and all it requires is either clicking on a bread icon repeatedly until a popup says, "I'm full" or buying hordes of apples before heading out of town which are devoured automatically, then fuck off. Why bother? What does this add to the game? A sense of mundane danger?

I was just thinking about the uselessness of the food mechanic while playing Legend of Grimrock 2. It's really annoying and can potentially land you in extreme shit if you're careless enough to run out of food and no food-generating enemies respawn.

 

[a Goat]

Things that will never work out but devs are pushing them still.

Level scaling.

B-but it allows for boar freedum of movement, do you like linear games or something?!




For me it's automated platforming.
It sucks huge, sweaty fucking dick.
Do devs really think, that it's completely impossible for normal people to fucking play through some platforming parts? Do they really think that the ideal game is made in a way in which you can't fail at anything?

But yeah then I read reviews where some retard complains that platforming in certain game isn't solved like in Assassins Creed(push right trigger and go forward) so why am I asking these questions?

 

[Scroo]

For me it's automated platforming.

Oh my god yes. Prince of Persia and Mirror's Edge were soooo cool games and then Assassins Creed came and made platforming / climbing a joke. I love challenging climbs and jumps, one button platforming is just no fun at all and gamers where able to play platformers for decades why should they be too dumb for it now all of a sudden?!

 

[jcd]

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

 

[TheGreatOne]

^Counter Strike&Day of Defeat master race. Atleast on public servers it wasn't rare at all to see people using flank left/flank right, use grenade/smoke grenade, I need back up etc being used to communicate to other players.

 

[Average Manatee]

C&C Renegade had the automated voice commands down perfectly for an FPS that needs to inform people of rushes targeting a specific building on a whim while keeping the chat clear.

For me it's automated platforming.
It sucks huge, sweaty fucking dick.
Do devs really think, that it's completely impossible for normal people to fucking play through some platforming parts? Do they really think that the ideal game is made in a way in which you can't fail at anything?

But yeah then I read reviews where some retard complains that platforming in certain game isn't solved like in Assassins Creed(push right trigger and go forward) so why am I asking these questions?

I think devs hesitate because normal jumping isn't "cinematic" enough. Everything needs a custom-tailored animation that requires a specifically scripted starting and ending point for a jump to accommodate it. "Normal" jumping using the same generic jump animations doesn't look "real" enough for them. Fuckers.

Reviewers are another matter. Everyone knows they are retarded.