Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Sensuki]

Well in this game to be B a N a L c E D they'd have to have a negative and a positive probably

IMO reducing the critical threat range by 1-2 would be enough, but then Josh would probably have them reduce accuracy or something as well ?

 

[Infinitron]

Well in this game to be B a N a L c E D they'd have to have a negative and a positive probably

IMO reducing the critical threat range by 1-2 would be enough, but then Josh would probably have them reduce accuracy or something as well ?

Isn't that like saying there should be a benefit from NOT wearing a ring or amulet? It's an equipment slot, you're expected to use it.

 

[DefJam101]

Why make helmets usless? Personal preference, why not +1 vs Crits?

It makes it to wher you'l just sell the helmets for some fast cash as soon as you get one. It reduces them to nothing more than a few coins.

Some helmets will have stats on them, which will make them valuable. Also, for discussion, this thread should go in the discussion forum. I will move this thread there.

lol look at what your itemization and balance has wrought, oh Sawyerfags. Look upon it and despair. Helmets that don't do anything? This is shit, complete shit, a spit in the face to the Infinity Engine gaming tradition by a man who hates everything that was ever good about those games. I bet he just did it so it would be "viable" (*spits*) to play a helmetless character. Any idiot knows you're supposed to wear a goddamn helmet in war. Sawyer's just babying the popamole moron patrol who love "balance". The worst thing is that lots of the idiots playing the beta don't even realize how awful everything about this game (which I have not played) is, and are instead happier than pigs in shit playing this 4e MMO clone.

Am I doing it right?

Yes.

 

[Sensuki]

Isn't that like saying there should be a benefit from NOT wearing a ring or amulet? It's an equipment slot, you're expected to use it.

Helmets aren't the same because there's various types of headwear, such as hats/caps. I'd prefer just a straight benefit but I'm not sure that would be the case, it'll either be no benefit, or a trade off.

 

[Ulminati]

Someone on the Obs Forum posted George Ziets' impressions of the PoE beta and I am shamelessly swiping it:

I played for a few hours this weekend - got through all the town content, as well as a wilderness map and a dungeon, before finally being defeated by a variety of bugs. Here are my thoughts so far:

In my opinion, combat is still too buggy to give it a fair assessment.

Seems like those beetles murder everyone who plays the beta. They need balance!

 

[roshan]

Seems like those beetles murder everyone who plays the beta. They need balance!

You know what? That's actually all a game needs. They don't need to be fun or interesting! Exciting games, holy shit no! Roleplaying and meaningful choices and alternatives - what's the use of that? All they need to be is BALANCED!!!

 

[Zero Credibility]

My, my. This thread is certainly going places.

I haven't played the beta myself nor am I likely too (I'm too poor for that), but what I read here definitely puts me firmly in the "Sawyer is a hack" camp (not that I wasn't gravitating towards it before this). Can't help it, something about that guy and his work makes my hands itch. Maybe I'm just one of the gronards if by that he calls those that think his design stinks.

I suppose it really is too late to just throw the whole thing in the lake (preferably with Sawyer) and start over with something else. Like say, Pathfinder. Why didn't they start with that instead - from what I understand it's a successor to the D&D 3.5 and as such would be perfect for a spiritual sequel to IE games. Or some other framework, surely something class based already exists that would do the job nicely. Was it licensing fees? Or Saywer's ego? Wouldn't it be easier to adapt existing ruleset for crpg instead of making one up from nothing as you go along? Why the need to reinvent the wheel?

Ah, fuck it. Maybe moders will fix it, because I really doubt that Sawyer will ever move from his position.

 

[Infinitron]

I suppose it really is too late to just throw the whole thing in the lake (preferably with Sawyer) and start over with something else. Like say, Pathfinder. Why didn't they start with that instead - from what I understand it's a successor to the D&D 3.5 and as such would be perfect for a spiritual sequel to IE games. Or some other framework, surely something class based already exists that would do the job nicely. Was it licensing fees? Or Saywer's ego? Wouldn't it be easier to adapt existing ruleset for crpg instead of making one up from nothing as you go along? Why the need to reinvent the wheel?

Obsidian Entertainment has been at the mercy of license holders and IP owners since the day they were founded. No more.

 

[Volourn]

"No more."

Yet, they continually beg LA/Disney for the SW license.

Oh, your post is full of bullshit.


I'll just ASSuem you were being sarcastic.

 

[Zed]

Obsidian Entertainment has been at the mercy of license holders and IP owners since the day they were founded. No more.

unless, you know, it turns out their games suck when there's no stakeholder who can invoke juridical power holding them responsible for the end product.

what can backers do when they see something they don't like? we/they can whine, and that's about it. obsidian doesn't even have to care.

and I know I am personally not backing any more of their games, and I doubt another Kickstarter would be as successful again. will PoE sustain more than its own franchise? I don't think so.

 

[LarsWestergren]

but what I read here definitely puts me firmly in the "Sawyer is a hack" camp (not that I wasn't gravitating towards it before this). Can't help it, something about that guy and his work makes my hands itch. Maybe I'm just one of the gronards if by that he calls those that think his design stinks.

Or maybe you made up your mind far in advance and is now cherrypicking stuff that validates your opinion?

The negative people are always the loudest.

Like say, Pathfinder. Why didn't they start with that instead - from what I understand it's a successor to the D&D 3.5 and as such would be perfect for a spiritual sequel to IE games. .

Being ironic, or did you miss that Obsidian became the official partner with Paizo to do digital versions of Pathfinder games? First out is a board/cardgame for tablets and other platforms, but they have hinted that a proper CRPG is being planned.

 

[Infinitron]

Obsidian Entertainment has been at the mercy of license holders and IP owners since the day they were founded. No more.

unless, you know, it turns out their games suck when there's no stakeholder who can invoke juridical power holding them responsible for the end product.

what can backers do when they see something they don't like? we/they can whine, and that's about it. obsidian doesn't even have to care.

and I know I am personally not backing any more of their games, and I doubt another Kickstarter would be as successful again. will PoE sustain more than its own franchise? I don't think so.

Hey, whine all you like. I didn't reply to that part of his post.

 

[DefJam101]

Well in this game to be B a N a L c E D they'd have to have a negative and a positive probably

IMO reducing the critical threat range by 1-2 would be enough, but then Josh would probably have them reduce accuracy or something as well ?

Isn't that like saying there should be a benefit from NOT wearing a ring or amulet? It's an equipment slot, you're expected to use it.

Well if you were to, say, wear a bascinet into combat in real life, not flipping your visor up before engaging in a pointless duel with your hypothetical opponent would be pretty detrimental to your sword fighting ability. I mean, sure, that great helm might offer a superb armor bonus, but the associated hit to your perception stat might not be worth the— Wait a minute. Something's wrong. This all sounds... familiar, like I've seen it all before, like I already know how this mechanic works, even though I've never read any forum posts about it. How can this be? It feels so strangely intuitive, almost like something in real... something in real...

Oh.

Oh no.

This can't be happening. This isn't happening. After all this time, Sawyer above, have I become a... a grognard? Sawyer? Answer me, Sawyer. Answer me! No, it isn't real, it can't be real, there's no way I would ever design a game system that simulateeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssiiimsimsimsimsimsimsimoh fuck sim shit how did I even what is sim this happensim no no shit sim simfuck shit shit shit sim sim SIM shit shit SHIT SHIT SIM SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIMULAAAAAAAAAAATION ISM ISM ISM ISM SISMS SIMSIMULASIM SIMUF SIM SIM SIM SIM FSIMFA SIM SIMULSM SIM SIM NO SIM DIE SIM VIABILITY SIM SIM SIM DEGENERATE SIM SIM PURGE PURGE BURN IT ALL BALANCE BALANCE IT TO THE GROUND DIE SIM DIE DIE FUCKING DIE SIMUFAGS DIE DIE BURN BALANCE KILL DIE DIE DIE DIAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAHAAAHAHAHAHAAAHAAHAHAAAAHAHAHHHHHHHHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAAAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[Zero Credibility]

Obsidian Entertainment has been at the mercy of license holders and IP owners since the day they were founded. No more.

That really sound like a weak excuse. What, don't they have some lawyers they can hire to write a bloody contract that wouldn't end up with them raped over it? Surely they can't be that stupid.

 

[Zed]

Obsidian Entertainment has been at the mercy of license holders and IP owners since the day they were founded. No more.

unless, you know, it turns out their games suck when there's no stakeholder who can invoke juridical power holding them responsible for the end product.

what can backers do when they see something they don't like? we/they can whine, and that's about it. obsidian doesn't even have to care.

and I know I am personally not backing any more of their games, and I doubt another Kickstarter would be as successful again. will PoE sustain more than its own franchise? I don't think so.

Hey, whine all you like. I didn't reply to that part of his post.

the only creatively invested stakeholders involved without IP owners are eventual crowdfunding backers. that's why I mentioned it.

I guess publishers can be, but in this case they're not.

 

[Infinitron]

Obsidian Entertainment has been at the mercy of license holders and IP owners since the day they were founded. No more.

That really sound like a weak excuse. What, don't they have some lawyers they can hire to write a bloody contract that wouldn't end up with them raped over it? Surely they can't be that stupid.

It's not about not being raped. It's about fully owning your own IP to do with as you please. The objective is to become a powerful privately owned developer that can set its own destiny - think Gearbox and their Borderlands IP.

 

[imweasel]

Sawyer gets it, he focuses on the important stuff. I was always sad that Shank's dagger couldn't remain competitive and viable throughout the whole game, was very emotionally attached to that weapon (a trophy from my very first kill ).

How enjoyable it would have been If I could have eventually molded it into Shank's Superb Dagger of Rape and Murder and stabbed Sarevok to death with it.

Well, at least you don't need to kill anything anymore to get a shiny new weapon. Now you can continually upgrade that rusty dagger -2 until it is the most powerful weapon in the game that you will never use.

In SW:TOR you can continually improve any equipment you find in the game until the end game. It ends fun, so I guess that is why Sawyer likes it.

 

[LarsWestergren]

It's about fully owning your own IP to do with as you please. The objective is to become a powerful privately owned developer that can set its own destiny - think Gearbox and their Borderlands IP.

And it seems like Obsidian is in a better position now than in a long time. Paradox is doing to boxed version of PoE, they are doing the cardgame with Paizo. It's small stuff, but I think the companies are probably starting small to see how the collaboration feels like before taking on bigger stuff. First casual dates before going steady, like.

 

[Zero Credibility]

but what I read here definitely puts me firmly in the "Sawyer is a hack" camp (not that I wasn't gravitating towards it before this). Can't help it, something about that guy and his work makes my hands itch. Maybe I'm just one of the gronards if by that he calls those that think his design stinks.

Or maybe you made up your mind far in advance and is now cherrypicking stuff that validates your opinion?

The negative people are always the loudest.

Well sorry, but when somebody presents me with a beautiful cake decorated with crap, I can't help but notice the crap first. I have plenty positive to say about what was shown so far, but my post wasn't about graphics or writing - it was about the ruleset.

Like say, Pathfinder. Why didn't they start with that instead - from what I understand it's a successor to the D&D 3.5 and as such would be perfect for a spiritual sequel to IE games. .

So, being cleverly ironic, or did you miss that Obsidian became the official partner with Paizo to do digital versions of Pathfinder games? First out is a board/cardgame for tablets and other platforms, but they have hinted that a proper CRPG is being planned.

Can you point me to a source for that? Why in hell would they be forbidden to use the ruleset in the actual game, especially if they are already partners elsewhere? Are these people that stupid? Don't they realise what kind of advertising this creates for their product to be featured in a major crpg?

Why the need to reinvent the wheel?

I swear, geeks and especially gamers have to be to most conservative people in the world. When someone posts "what would your dreamgame be" in forums, the replies are inevitably a million "SEQUEL TO GAME X WITH PRETTIER GRAPHICS! AND MAYBE A FEW SPRINKLES OF ANOTHER OF MY CHILDHOOD FAVOURITES BUT DON'T CHANGE TOO MUCH!"

Yeah, well you get that when you reinvent something and the result is something that is well, worse. Not all change is for the better. When it comes to crpgs most of it in the recent years certainly wasn't.

edit: damn it, the post I was replying to was edited.

 

[imweasel]

and I know I am personally not backing any more of their games, and I doubt another Kickstarter would be as successful again.

It would really hurt if Tim Cain was lead designer of their new game on Kickstarter, but Obsidian has shown us that it is better to not support them and their empty promises.

 

[msxyz]

Osidian should better listen to all the feedback of people wanting an experience closer to IE games, whatever it means.

The average random guy out there wants a BG2 clone in a different settings and doesn't care about balance or the like (it would probably never notice anyway). If they want to market PoE to more than the 71000 backers who already pledged their money, they will have to please a larger crowd. After 2 yrs in development, I don't know how much of the original sum collected is left.

 

[Spockrock]

a BG2 clone would imply D&D ruleset (I'm struggling to remember a party-based RPG that wasn't based on D&D, actually, apart from DA)...

which reminds me.

guise, humor me: those who think combat is shit because of stats/abilities/what have you - did you like Dragon Age: Origins' combat for the same reasons?

 

[LarsWestergren]

Well sorry, but when somebody presents me with a beautiful cake decorated with crap, I can't help but notice the crap first. I have plenty positive to say about what was shown so far, but my post wasn't about graphics or writing - it was about the ruleset.

Alright, fair enough.

Can you point me to a source for that? Why in hell would they be forbidden to use the ruleset in the actual game, especially if they are already partners elsewhere? Are these people that stupid? Don't they realise what kind of advertising this creates for their product to be featured in a major crpg?

This was a recent announcement, long after the Kickstarter. They will have a Pathfinder CRPG. They did the tablet/board/cardgame first because it was fast, and as I said, probably a way to feel how the partnership is working out.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66663-obsidian-and-paizo-announce-partnership/
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...me-could-be-an-eternity-crpg-card-game.93553/

edit: damn it, the post I was replying to was edited.

Yeah, sorry about that, I decided I was getting off topic and whining about The Awful General State of Things.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Can you point me to a source for that? Why in hell would they be forbidden to use the ruleset in the actual game, especially if they are already partners elsewhere? Are these people that stupid? Don't they realise what kind of advertising this creates for their product to be featured in a major crpg?

This was a recent announcement, long after the Kickstarter. They will have a Pathfinder CRPG. They did the tablet/board/cardgame first because it was fast, and as I said, probably a way to feel how the partnership is working out.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66663-obsidian-and-paizo-announce-partnership/
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...me-could-be-an-eternity-crpg-card-game.93553/

Hmm, strange. It seems I wasn't replying to what I thought I was replying to. I thought I read in your post something about it being hinted that Obsidian couldn't get the licence for Pathfinder in PoE, not the news about possible future collaboration. Which I found really weird as you'd think that Paizo would jump at the opportunity like that - a spiritual sequel to BG with their ruleset? But it's not there now or in the post I was replying to. Was something like that in your post at some point or do I just need bigger glasses?

 

[Telengard]

(I'm struggling to remember a party-based RPG that wasn't based on D&D, actually, apart from DA)...

Excluding blobbers,and off the top of my head, Arkania trilogy. Krondor "trilogy". Darklands. Qin duet. D&D ones have way more popularity, though.