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In Progress Hannibal: Rome and Carthage in the Second Punic War

Erebus

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First of all, the Carthaginian Senate requests that you send to them all the wine you can get. Throats get dry easily when you have to spend so much time debating military stuff.

Second of all, how much more difficult is it to take a city than to defeat an army in a pitched battle ?

Thirdly, maybe we should focus on defending Genua for now, since it'll make it easier to reinforce Hannibal's army. The next move of the Romans may give us an idea of the best strategy to follow after that.
 

DakaSha

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Second of all, how much more difficult is it to take a city than to defeat an army in a pitched battle ?

City battles ignore the leader bonuses. Generally speaking you always want Hannibal to fight on the field if possible. This allows him to use his massive 12 in leading and also his punic trick cards if he has any. Cav also becomes shit in city battles

Thirdly, maybe we should focus on defending Genua for now, since it'll make it easier to reinforce Hannibal's army. The next move of the Romans may give us an idea of the best strategy to follow after that.

Genua is the most important of our cities. There are a few things to keep in mind though:
We get more recruits for holding all of the cities in C Gaul.
We CAN split our forces. There is nothing prohibiting us from putting garrisons in multiple cities

(I'm not arguing anything you guys are saying. Just making sure things are clear)

Also i edited last update to show what forces hannibal and fabius have.

Cav are shit in both defending and attacking cities, so it is relevant.
 

DakaSha

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Second of all, how much more difficult is it to take a city than to defeat an army in a pitched battle ?

Oh i see why you are asking now. There are three city types. Level 1, 2 and 3.

Level 1 cities just need a somewhat larger force usually, I think level 2 cities should be attacked with at least double if you wan to be safe, and level 3 cities a minimum of triple the troops.
Level one cities are just the small cities with no tower, level 2 are those with 2 towers (placentia and genua for instance) and level 3 are only Rome, Carthage and Syracuse

Luck always plays a role. But I think with the forces we have *may* be able to defend 2 cities decently after recruitment. The thing is that we just took those cities so they only have one militia guarding them. It's up to our troops to do defend for now

But Hannibal is still better on the field in most cases
 

Erebus

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In later turns, what if we moved Hannibal (with a big-ass army) right next to Rome, in order to bait the Romans into attacking him directly ?
 

DakaSha

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In later turns, what if we moved Hannibal (with a big-ass army) right next to Rome, in order to bait the Romans into attacking him directly ?

Yeah that is optimal. Thats where the game is supposed to get interesting though, in its following of history. Depending on what generals the roman have, they may just refuse to attack you. Historically the romans starting out thinking that time is in their hands and adopted Fabius' proposal of a war of attrition, refusing to meet hannibal on open field.

It really just comes down to what the AI wants when you decide to try something like that. If we get one of the over confident generals that may be a possibility.

My main fear at the current stage is the fact that the far eastern border/mountaion pass town that leads into C Gaul is a great opening for Rome. If we defend placentia and Genua, we risk the romans coming in and taking back all the minor towns. *shrug*
 

oscar

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Genua is the priority. Placentia and Patavium are less important.
 
In My Safe Space
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Codex 2012
This game always intrigued me. It's relatively obscure, got good to decent reviews, apparantly is very challenging and has a good AI and has a rather interesting premise. Never bought it myself though. What's your opinion on the game, DakaSha? Anyway, following this.
It has a demo and a tutorial.
 

DakaSha

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I think the question isn't what is more important, but how should i split up my forces.
After some forced cuddeling with my Galbitch I'll finish the rest of the turn (and MAKE SURE GENUA IS PROTECTED FAGGITS) and update.
 

oscar

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Probably too late now but how many are you planning to commit to garrison duty? Than we could ponder how they should be distributed.
 

DakaSha

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Turn 2 - 217 BC - Action 2 – Syphax to the Rescue


Northern Italy

Hannibal has had some success this campaign season but must now decide on how to defend Norther Italy from a possible Roman invasion.

He looks over the possibilities that the Roman generals have…



… and decides that the most likely course of action would be for them to use naval transports to attack either Genua or Placentia, so avoiding the attrition or expensive resources it would cost to march them such a long distance from Rome.

He therefore decides to fortify both Genua and Placentia, but decides that he only has enough troops on hand to fortify one of the cities reliably.

After a chat with his Gallic Wench (Who has been come to be known as Radisshu), he decides to ask the local Gauls for help. They have taken quite a liking to Hannibro over the past year and would prefer him over the alternative dumbfuck Romans any day. He's even been saluted with the shocker a few times, while passing through the Gallic villages in the region.

Hannibal plays the second option of this card:



The Senate in Carthage will not like his dealing with the Gaul's in this fashion.. The whole diplomacy thing is after all what secures them their luxurious lifestyle and their precious grapes. But Hannibal thinks: "Fuck em'". They won't be enjoying grapes much longer if Rome wins this war, either.



The Gaulls over him two units and even the option of Cavalry. However, given the current strategic situation, Hannibal settles on two strong inf units, to help fortify the cities leading into C Gaul.
With that he fortifies the two cities

Genua:



Placentia:



Placentia receives a better Garrison, but Hannibal is expecting Gallic reinforcements soon. Hannibal hopes that this will keep the Romans from storming either of the cities. Even if they do Placentia and win, they should be so weakened that Hannibal could pull off a counter attack. The Romans could also pass through the Eastern mountain pass into C Gaul, however, with the attrition it should cause, and the losses caused by the storming of the minor cities, Hannibal should be able to take them on fairly easily. Let’s just hope they don't have any tricks up their Togas.

If Hannibal dies, the game ends. And he can't retreat from a city battle...

Hannibal prays that things are going well in Spain and Africa...


Spain

Hasdrubal wakes up, to a bright and sunny day. They are all bright and sunny aren't they? He yawns, stretches, and turns to his right, where the sight of the 5 wenches he did the dirty with last night lie. He smiles, thinks shortly about his brothers in Italy, and goes back to sleep.

Africa

Syphax does as planned, and heads to Carthage to do the work they can’t seem to handle themselves. He enters Carthage with a bunch of retarded fanfare and asks the Carthaginian general, Himilco, who is currently the highest ranked officer in the city, where his damn troops are. Once they are organized with his army, they head out towards Utica



On the way, he stops to check out his, quite large, army, and ponders whether or not he should break his former plan of siege, and instead storm Utica head on, possibly taking out the entire garrisoned force, and the General commanding them...

Codex

I’ll do what the first person recommends at this point. We have a much larger force but half of it is cavalry. If we can take out the city with few losses it will be great for us. If we take it out with lots of casualties, it could really suck (and even worse if we lose of course, although that is unlikely)

If we besiege the city they will probably just leave by boat (To who knows where), but we will gain the city (most likely right away, as I doubt they will stick around) without any losses.

Edit: Actually if they use their fleets to flee.. that would mean the forces in Rome wouldn't have as many to use for an assault on northern Italy..

----

Lieutenant Gondolin advises Syphax to stick to his former plan, and Syphax saw that it was good.
 

Gondolin

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You mean you can't move any troops to Italy unless the Senate says so? FFS...

Taking Utica is kinda risky. 6-6 infantry battle with some useless cavalry thrown in. I don't like the odds.
 

DakaSha

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You mean you can't move any troops to Italy unless the Senate says so? FFS...

That's how war actually works

Taking Utica is kinda risky. 6-6 infantry battle with some useless cavalry thrown in. I don't like the odds.

So is your final recommendation to stick with besieging it? I'll go with that and do the Romans turn if so ;)
 

DakaSha

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Btw if I (finish this and) ever do another LP it may be fun to have people choose a general to play and make their own decisions. would make for some good arguments between players :smug:
 

DakaSha

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Turn 2 - 217 BC - Romans - "Fabius shows his competence.. maybe"

The Campaign season has ended and we draw an option:



Due to our incredible strategic genius, we are also able to recruit 1 unit in Spain, 1 unit in Gaul and 2 units in C Gaul.

I’m not sure why are aren't getting 3 in C Gaul.. My guess is that its due to the recruitment pool being too low

Hasdrubal recruits a Spanish inf, Mago recruits some Gallic cav (his current plan is to recruit a large cavalry force in Gaul so that he can come save his brothers ass, and gain some fame), Hannibal, now in the need for a garrison, and with further city storming planned, decides to take two Gallic inf.

The Situation



The Romans deliberate, and as to be expected, Fabius the only general currently employed by the Romans that possesses ounce of competence, takes control of the army stationed in Rome.

Fabius

And what a general he is:



Fabius has done what Hannibal least expected, and took the chance of moving through the Ligurian Apennines into C Gaul. Without losing a single man to either attrition, or battle…

Happy with the results of his march, he quickly seizes the chance to storm Patavium and loses one unit to our brave defenders, he then heads to Turin and again loses one unit in a frontal attack. He completes his brilliant invasion by taking Mediolanum with another single loss.

Proud of his accomplishment he settles in Cisalpine Gaul, daring Hannibal to face him on the field of honor…



Well.. that was better than what old Servilius pulled last year… Fabius may be a less of a coward then previously expected.. he is also not an idiot. Apparently Hannibal has not yet proven himself enough to instill fear in the Romans. He will soon enough. The Romans may have taken back a few minor cities, but we still control the most important of them.

Livius

Also as expected, the army currently under the control of general Livius, which had been a nuisance on our own land, has retreated by ship and headed up to Spain where he plans on being a bit of a nuisance some more:



We will have to deal with this.

Navies



The Romans decided to blockade Africa, by moving their fleets in the Thyrrhenian in to the Mediterranean, which I suppose was to be expected. They also pulled some ships that were in port at Tarentum, and combined them with their forces in the Ionian. Water-wise, we aren't looking to hot.
Himilco, in Carthage, makes a note to raise more fleets at the next possible chance, so as to force the Romans from our waters.

In other news, Paullus, stationed in Rome, moves to Rhegium, presumably for recruiting duties, ending the Roman Campaign season.

Roman recruitment

Ancona: 1 Latin Inf
Asculum: 1 Latin Cav
Rhegium: 2 Latin Inf
Rome: 1 Latin Cav, 2 Latin inf, 1 Roman Inf
Tarentum: 1 Latin Inf, 1 Squadron
Livius: 1 Spanish Inf (They can also get Spanish inf when in Spain)

Senate Elections



Better than last year.. And that fag Scipio has been elected. Hannibal hates that fag.

I remember Scipio having a higher leader rating in my last game (as he would have historically I think). My guess is that the game randomizes it a bit every game to keep things fresh?

Well.. now that that bullshit is all over


 

oscar

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Reinforce Spain. While New Carthage looks safe Emporion and our connection from Spain to Italy seems a bit tenuous.
 

Malakal

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Reinforce Italy most definitely.

Considering the rate of recruitment Romans have going on we need to inflict more casualties soon or risk being overrun by sheer numbers. I suggest trying for a pitched battle in Cisalpine Gaul then recapture of cities before they get their militias rebuilt.

In Iberia Hannibals brother should consolidate his forces and try to force a battle too. Its 6 to 5 units which should be good enough, unless the quality of our troops is inferior. Is it? What is the composition of the army in Iberia?

For long term prospects I think that staying in Gaul is a waste. We should have one general on recruitment duty in Cisalpine Gaul and Hannibal on the offence deeper south.
 

DakaSha

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Reinforce Spain. While New Carthage looks safe Emporion and our connection from Spain to Italy seems a bit tenuous.


How do I reinforce Spain though? Reinforce doesn't mean they get magical free units. It means you may move units there to reinforce ;)
We need to get rid of the naval blockade.

In the next turn we will get anywhere from 1 to 3 units (with more if we opt to 'upgrade defenses in Africa'). This will allow us to build a naval squadron or so.. the problem is that our recruitment pool for navies is also limited (You don't only decide on what to recruit, but also have a limited total pool)

So the options really are, from what I can tell:

a) Vote to reinforce Spain as you say and raise as many squadrons as possible and risk the breakout from the ports of Carthage (meaning attack the Romans in the Mediterranean even if we have an equal amount of ships, turning it to a battle based on dice) and then send reinforcements to Spain.

b) Vote on upgrading defenses, hopefully get more squadrons due to this, fuck up the roman fleets (which would be good in the long term as well) and pass on reinforcing Spain for now.

Of course we have to pray that the Senate doesn't pull a dumb fuck here.
 

DakaSha

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Reinforce Italy most definitely.

Considering the rate of recruitment Romans have going on we need to inflict more casualties soon or risk being overrun by sheer numbers. I suggest trying for a pitched battle in Cisalpine Gaul then recapture of cities before they get their militias rebuilt.

In Iberia Hannibals brother should consolidate his forces and try to force a battle too. Its 6 to 5 units which should be good enough, unless the quality of our troops is inferior. Is it? What is the composition of the army in Iberia?

For long term prospects I think that staying in Gaul is a waste. We should have one general on recruitment duty in Cisalpine Gaul and Hannibal on the offence deeper south.


Again, How to reinforce?

Otherwise I mostly agree with what you are saying. However the numbers aren't as in our favor as you think:

To consolidate forces both Hannibal and Hasdrubal have to have a link between the cities in which the units sit. If Hasdrubal tries to get the forces from Emporian, he can be halted along the way.

However this is not a given, he can decline (unless it is rolled against), forcing the enemy to either stand down or attack his camp (which would be bad for them)

I do have to consult the manual to make sure this is true though. The rules on when you can intercept are probably the most unintuitive in the game.

Hannibal can beat his opponent though. If things go wrong he does have his card.
 

DakaSha

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Here (as it is relevant) is who is commanding what armies currently. The generals are changed after election:

Spain



C. Gaul



Rome

 

Malakal

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Wait wait, so we cant combine our troops in C.Gaul? Then garrisoning two cities was a huge mistake that should not be made again. We cant afford to wait we have to kill at least 5 units every turn or we get swarmed.

This changes stuff then. Leave Iberia alone and hope the enemy stays there, he cant do much with this token force anyway. Combine troops in C. Gaul at all cost then recapture what was taken.

Could you extend move Hannibal back to Iberia and wage a second battle in one turn? If yes then do so, remove the threat in both C. Gaul and Iberia, bring reinforcements from Iberia to Hannibal army.
 

DakaSha

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Wait wait, so we cant combine our troops in C.Gaul? Then garrisoning two cities was a huge mistake that should not be made again.

I don't see how this was a huge mistake. As it stands they were not able to take a level 2 city (which means WE don't have to take it back), and we have a force as big as the enemy, with a better general, and a punic trick card. If I had moved everybody into Genua then the enemy would have taken the level 2 city with few or no losses, then stormed through and taken all the cities anyways, and would be sitting in the middle of the field with an army around the same size as he has now. edit: Or he'd be in the big city, impossible to dislodge

We would then have a larger army to combat him, but we would be one major city down. all in all i think both options would have turned out more or less the same.

If I had not split up Hasdrubals army early on then I have no idea what would have happened. I had to place him in New Carthage or he could have been killed on turn 1 (happened my first game)

We cant afford to wait we have to kill at least 5 units every turn or we get swarmed.

Good thing I didn't besiege Sicily for 5 years then :smug:

edit: also as stated above, there is a recruitment pool. the Romans don't get an unlimited amount of units
 

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