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Pathologic

PrzeSzkoda

Augur
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
632
Location
Zork - Poland
Project: Eternity
spectre said:
Ah, welcome to the world of localized games and no final editing by native speakers. With more quality games coming from the third world I'd start getting used to it.

It's not even the lack of final editing. No editor would be able to salvage such crap, and an actual pro would tell them to get it re-translated, 'cuz working on such shit is not worth the effort (not for the pittance the editor would get paid, most probably). It's the general fallacy in their thinking - oh, sures, we can does English, its easy, rite? We like totally can writes English in the internets and mebbeh even done some translation, so what the hell? Even a major publishing studio like CDProjekt - featuring THEIR VERY FUCKING OWN localization department, with shitloads of experience - fell for that. Vault Dweller is also guilty of having such a mindset, to an extent - but he's got the excuse of a small budget and having only one writer on the team, himself (and fanboys telling him it's "good enough for what it is").

First off, they should try finding native English-speaking translators. If that fails, they should at least hire someone capable of discerning well-written English to weed out incompetence, since apparently they are incapable of doing it themselves. And only then should it be edited by a native speaker of English, preferably one who knows the source language, too.

\rant
 

Forest Dweller

Smoking Dicks
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
12,196
Oh for fuck's sake, VD writes perfect English (to the extent that that can even be measured) and this non-native speaker bullshit that everyone throws around is starting to become tiring. And the Witcher was fine when initially released as well.

Lesifoere said:
I'm butthurt that I had to learn another language and somebody else didn't.
I'd tell you to go to Thailand, but you're already there.
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,381
Tight deadlines are to blame for this, most of the time.

The truth is, unless the translator spends an additional few days on giving the text a final run-thorugh (one day for the actual run through, rest of the time spent doing something else to get a fresh perspective on the text, without it, you just don't see the errors.) it will be flawed (how flaved depends on the translator's actual competence, but it will never be perfect.

English native speakers as translator is prolly the best idea (better grasp of the target language is more important in this business), but it seems like a luxury. Best just leave the final editing to them imo.

It's not even the lack of final editing. No editor would be able to salvage such crap, and an actual pro would tell them to get it re-translated, 'cuz working on such shit is not worth the effort (not for the pittance the editor would get paid, most probably)

It is salvageable. It's a bit faster correcting even such machine translations then starting from scratch again, see my point about deadlines again. (Ok, I admit I'm just judging it on the fragment in the OP).
K, maybe not an editor here, but a senior translator-coordinator for a group of underlings.
This way you get consistent quality and decent speed, and imo it is THE way to localise stuff. Unfortunately, it costs it's value in money.

In a pinch you could have two guys translating and proofreading for each other and it still beats one translator and no final editing.
 

PrzeSzkoda

Augur
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
632
Location
Zork - Poland
Project: Eternity
Dicksmoker said:
Oh for fuck's sake, VD writes perfect English (to the extent that that can even be measured)

Gonna go all Volourn on you. Bullshit. r00fles! Same with The Bitcher thing. Also, moran.

spectre said:
It is salvageable. It's a bit faster correcting even such machine translations then starting from scratch again, see my point about deadlines again. (Ok, I admit I'm just judging it on the fragment in the OP).
K, maybe not an editor here, but a senior translator-coordinator for a group of underlings.
This way you get consistent quality and decent speed, and imo it is THE way to localise stuff. Unfortunately, it costs it's value in money.

In my experience, it's the other way around. Correcting machine translations is a chore, and can take much longer than producing a translation from scratch. Because, well, it basically IS like translating from scratch, in a way, but you've got to trudge through badly written shizz in addition to that. Especially when you're dealing with a language that is not yet quite machine-translation-friendly (f.i. French > English would work pretty well, but Russkie > English - not really) - plus, getting the most out of machine translation requires the services of someone skilled in MT to calibrate the software - which is quite expensive in the first place, unless you're using Google Translate - and these guys don't come cheap.

Plus, when looking for editors for crappy MT, most people go around and ask: "Oh, hi, guize, we've got some stuff, could you give it a once over at your best rate?" (Neat mindtrick there - "best rate" actually means "the lowest you're willing to accept, bitch"). The hapless editor agrees, looks at the text, and commits ritual suicide.

Deadlines are not the problem, really - it's the workflow. First off, if the deadline's too tight, it means their project management is most probably off (especially considering that the stuff is being done internally, not by an outside vendor). Second, the translation itself should go through at least two stages of review, and I'd personally try to add a third layer when dealing with translators working OUT of their native language: first, as you said, translators reviewing and proofreading each other's work (that's mostly to avoid the "not-enough-time" problem you've brought up, although if a translator cannot do a good job given the deadline, he, technically speaking, shouldn't have taken the assignment in the first place, but we all know shit happens and you need the monies, etc. :rpgcodex: ), then general + technical QA that comes together with beta-testing the localization. For non-native translators, I'd go with another review by a native speaker, before sending the stuff out to QA.

Still, even all that can fail if the people responsible for the various steps in the process fail to deliver. And it's really, really easy to fail when working out of your native language, no matter how bad a dude you'd consider yourself to be. Keep in mind that I've got ubermenschlische standards when it comes to that, though; a hobby, you might say. :smug:
 

Heresiarch

Prophet
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
1,451
OMG the sentence below should be enough for the most hardkore codextard go grab the game and play

pathologiccandc.jpg


And after playing a bit, I must say while the text is far from perfect, most of them are at least not complete gibberish like all your base are belong to us style. And it's just 10 minutes into the game but it's already giving me the creeps (the tragedian and the executor, the dummy portrait of the generic NPCs, the weird music, etc).

I'm gonna play it as soon as I'm finished with the void.
 

PrzeSzkoda

Augur
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
632
Location
Zork - Poland
Project: Eternity
Hey, they DID improve the quality. Slightly. :P From what I remember from earlier screencaps of the game, it was even worse than that manual.
 

Hamster

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Messages
5,934
Location
Moscow
Codex 2012 Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014
KalosKagathos said:
That is, if anyone bothered to release games in English here, or at least the postal service wasn't run by thieving bastards who make importing a gamble.
It's amazing what bullshit people come up with to make excuses for torrenting games.
 

KalosKagathos

Learned
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
1,988
Location
Russia
Hamster said:
It's amazing what bullshit people come up with to make excuses for torrenting games.
I haven't torrented a single game ever since I bought a PS3, if you don't count abandonware. R00fles!
 

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
22,503
Gragt said:
Yeah, I'll have her record it. I'm sure she'll be delighted at the thought of having to sit next to me to translate some stupid game.
How do you know she would translate correctly? Use dictionary.
 

Lesifoere

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 26, 2007
Messages
4,071
Judging from that screenshot, the translation is nowhere near as bad as I was led to believe.
 

Micmu

Magister
Joined
Aug 20, 2005
Messages
6,163
Location
ALIEN BASE-3
It *is* bizzaro. Totally. It feels like they just emailed bunch of .txt files with dialogue strings to some amateur translators who then translated it completely out of context, as they saw fit. And a lot of texts were probably just fed through babelfish.

What's worse, the re-translation project was abandoned (or as they say: "put to halt", but we all know this means vapourware).
 

dx__

Educated
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
132
Location
Ontario, Canada
Haba said:
I am actually seriously considering learning Polish and Russian just for gaming.

In all seriousness, I've been considering the same thing. Can't find anyone to teach me in a shitty dying mining town, but eventually - maybe I'll move and, with luck, I can find someone to teach me.
 

Murk

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
13,459
That screenshot is not representative of the game as a whole, and part of the translational hiccup comes not from confusing sentences that result from garbled translation, but because the writers were seriously channeling 19th century Russian literature AND translating it.

The game's text isn't bad and it is entirely playable -- it's not great but, as I said before, is reminiscent of a drunken ramble from Dostoevsky. Sometimes there's a sentence or three that does not make sense and sometimes there's an entire paragraph that, taken by itself is grammatically correct, but does not work in context.

Having said all that I don't think it breaks the game at all, and the rest of the game makes up for it pretty easily. It IS pretty damn eerie, and I still have fond memories of a random townsman chasing after a woman to only catch up and punch her in the back of the head.
 

Longshanks

Augur
Joined
Jul 28, 2004
Messages
897
Location
Australia.
Aah! The ignorance, it hurts my brain...

My reasonable, factual original post:

Longshanks said:
Not quite the same thing. English is the dominant world language. Niche language speakers, like yourself, have the option if not the requirement, to learn it. Giving you the option to play those games in their original language. Whereas us native English speakers are hardly going to learn some shitty language just to play a game, are we? Course not. Which leaves us with a mangled translation as the only option.
English most used world language = correct! Okay, fairly even with Mandarin, but English has much wider usage.
Many non-native speakers learn it from a young age = correct!
Native English speakers are not going to learn a more niche language, just to play a game = correct! Outside of a couple of deranged posters in this thread.

So what was so wrong in my post? All I've said is that non-native English speakers are more likely to learn English than for native English speakers to learn some other language. Learning English may not be a requirement for young people around the world, but the pull to do so is stronger than the reverse.


Now, let's look at the respondents and whether they've been as fair and balanced:

Dicksmoker said:
You should be an American.
Lesifoere said:
You really ought to apply for American citizenship; you're already halfway there.
Anti-American prejudice? Oh my. George Bush is not even President any more.
Anyway, who said I'm not American? I'm not, but that was a rather rash assumption simply based on my location.

PrzeSzkoda said:
My multiheaded dick is going to get dominant in your face, illiterate fuck.
Charming. And no, I'm not illiterate. Kinda obvious I would have thought.

PrzeSzkoda said:
Any man worth his salt should speak at least 5 languages.
And how many do I know? Being part Greek, Serbian and Australian - I speak fluent English and both Serbian and Greek to a far lesser degree - unfortunately my parents didn't think it important to learn.

Black Cat said:
When the cutest, funniest, evilest nekomimi witch evar knows more languages than you, guy, you can be, like, totally sure you are so full of epic deferred success and stuffies and thingies and nya that nothing can save your soul. You should give yourself unto Mother Kali for a faster rebirth into something closer to a human being, nya.
Yes... good day to you too!

KalosKagathos said:
That is, if anyone bothered to release games in English here, or at least the postal service wasn't run by thieving bastards who make importing a gamble.
Buy the translated version, torrent the English one. Simple.

Pure insanity:

Haba said:
I am actually seriously considering learning Polish and Russian just for gaming.
dx__ said:
In all seriousness, I've been considering the same thing. Can't find anyone to teach me in a shitty dying mining town, but eventually - maybe I'll move and, with luck, I can find someone to teach me.
The exception:
Emotional Vampire said:
Agreed.

Pissing on the monocles of fags above me from great height.

[CK Edit] And below.
A scholar and a gentleman, sir.
 

Forest Dweller

Smoking Dicks
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
12,196
Longshanks said:
Dicksmoker said:
You should be an American.
Lesifoere said:
You really ought to apply for American citizenship; you're already halfway there.
Anti-American prejudice? Oh my. George Bush is not even President any more.
Anyway, who said I'm not American? I'm not, but that was a rather rash assumption simply based on my location.
Hey, don't lump me in with Lesifoere. I was simply pointing out that you have views similar to most Americans'. With that kind of right-minded thinking, you should really move to a place where you can thrive and reach your full potential. That is all.
 

Gragt

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
1,864,860
Location
Dans Ton Cul
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin
Darth Roxor said:
Black Cat said:
When the cutest, funniest, evilest nekomimi witch evar knows more languages than you, guy, you can be, like, totally sure you are so full of epic deferred success and stuffies and thingies and nya that nothing can save your soul. You should give yourself unto Mother Kali for a faster rebirth into something closer to a human being, nya.

:shock:

I know just how you feel. At first it was fun, then it became boring, and now it is fucking scary.
 

Fowyr

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Mar 29, 2009
Messages
7,671
Gragt said:
Darth Roxor said:
Black Cat said:
When the cutest, funniest, evilest nekomimi witch evar knows more languages than you, guy, you can be, like, totally sure you are so full of epic deferred success and stuffies and thingies and nya that nothing can save your soul. You should give yourself unto Mother Kali for a faster rebirth into something closer to a human being, nya.

:shock:

I know just how you feel. At first it was fun, then it became boring, and now it is fucking scary.
Eldritch horrors and abominable magic practices corrupts his mind.
 

TheWesDude

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
3,720
Location
Norfolk VA
Longshanks said:
MetalCraze said:
Ah the wonders of Prompt machine translation. Now you know how we feel over here when some shitty russian publisher releases english-to-russian localization of western games.
Not quite the same thing. English is the dominant world language. Niche language speakers, like yourself, have the option if not the requirement, to learn it. Giving you the option to play those games in their original language. Whereas us native English speakers are hardly going to learn some shitty language just to play a game, are we? Course not. Which leaves us with a mangled translation as the only option.

http://www.vistawide.com/languages/lang ... istics.htm


english only has the most # of non-native speakers. if that is too complicated for you to understand, that means that english is the most common 2nd language to learn worldwide.

the language with the most native speakers is chinese.
 

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